By allowing them to get away with this we're basically saying "its ok for you to make low quality product, charge premium for it, and if it breaks, its on us, oculus/vive FTW". BTW. You're still in the EU (brexit is not yet finished), and EU laws do protect you with 2 years warranty. Threaten to escalate this way maybe. We're much better protected as consumers than our overseas mates.
My Rift just broke!
- Thread starter Alec Turner
- Start date
Wow...Sorry to hear that Alec. Starting to think I was in the fortunate minority when I had my Oculus support interaction. I'll definitely be sharing this story with friends and family that ask about it, and if they should get an Oculus.
I can recommend a good set of headphones... :-/
I can recommend a good set of headphones... :-/
Before I go slagging them off big time I've asked them to clarify whether that previous statement (the one I posted this morning) really means that they're closing my case because they reckon' it's my fault and therefore consider this breakage not to be covered by the warranty. I've also stated that I totally disagree with this conclusion and re-iterated that it broke under perfectly normal use conditions. Basically I suspect the person writing that was kinda hoping I'd just go away quietly and buy some replacement headphones. When they realise that I'm not about to be fobbed off quite so easily they may change their tune.
I'm really curious to see their reply and I'll keep you posted.
This really is probably the default response for this type of issue. Unfortunately it happens a lot where broken hardware really is the users fault and they try to get it replaced under warranty. Often the default not covered response will be enough to get rid of users trying to cheat the system. I suspect that if you stay firm that the item failed under normal use they will cover the repair.
Yeah I have also heard that this is a standard response to discourage people. And this is irregardless of manufacturer. I had "luck" that my vive had a glaring hardware error which would not be so easy to try to stick to "user fault". But still, dismissing without even checking the HMD is ridiculous. I know support is outsourced, but still, this is sooo tarnishing the mother company image...
When I was contacting vive support, the rep on the chat tried to con me (literally, by twisting what I just said) to admit that my vive worked with my friends computer and didn't with mine. When I clearly told them that I went to a friend who owns another vive and the same glaring hardware error was present. So either incompetent or instructed to dismiss and delay RMA as much as possible. And that wasn't the last screw up like you can see in my previous post.
Anyhow you still have two options left if the worst happens - pursue either by amazon or under european warranty law. Don't give up.
PS: or a third option sell the rift get a vive 200€ off, in some stores even 300€ off
When I was contacting vive support, the rep on the chat tried to con me (literally, by twisting what I just said) to admit that my vive worked with my friends computer and didn't with mine. When I clearly told them that I went to a friend who owns another vive and the same glaring hardware error was present. So either incompetent or instructed to dismiss and delay RMA as much as possible. And that wasn't the last screw up like you can see in my previous post.
Anyhow you still have two options left if the worst happens - pursue either by amazon or under european warranty law. Don't give up.
PS: or a third option sell the rift get a vive 200€ off, in some stores even 300€ off
This morning's response from Oculus ...
And my reply ...
[mad]
Hello Alec,
Thanks for following up with me. I understand your concerned that this should be covered under warranty however the unit didn't arrive in this condition and you had it for almost a year before this part got broken. You can purchase new headphones on our site which should resolve the issue and you can also use your own headphones as an alternative. We are unable to process accidental damage through warranty, if the unit arrived in this condition we would most certainly get this taken care of for you. For more details on what the warranty covers and does not cover please refer to our Limited Consumer Warranty documentation for more information. If you require additional assistance please let us know and we'd be happy to help.
Sincerely,
Oculus Support
Thanks for following up with me. I understand your concerned that this should be covered under warranty however the unit didn't arrive in this condition and you had it for almost a year before this part got broken. You can purchase new headphones on our site which should resolve the issue and you can also use your own headphones as an alternative. We are unable to process accidental damage through warranty, if the unit arrived in this condition we would most certainly get this taken care of for you. For more details on what the warranty covers and does not cover please refer to our Limited Consumer Warranty documentation for more information. If you require additional assistance please let us know and we'd be happy to help.
Sincerely,
Oculus Support
And my reply ...
OK, so ...
"We warrant that the Product will, under normal and intended use, function substantially in accordance with our technical specifications or accompanying product documentation (the “Warranted Functionality”) during the Warranty Period."
Also ...
"This limited Warranty continues for one (1) year from the
date of purchase or delivery of the Product"
The product has broken under normal and intended use in less than a year from the date of purchase. Seems pretty clear cut to me!
I feel obliged to add that this conversation is being followed with keen interest by a large number of people from the Elite: Dangerous internet gaming community of which I'm a prolific and highly respected member. I've been a strong advocate of your company and the Oculus Rift from the very beginning and have contributed to an extremely large number of discussions and blogs on the subject of Virtual Reality since it's very early days (on a variety of ED, Oculus and VR gaming forums and social media sites). I like to think that I've managed to persuade a large number of people to buy and/or choose the Oculus Rift over other competing devices during that time. While I will continue to stand by the hardware (disappointed tho' I am by the fragility of the headphone mounting) I have to say that this conversation is rapidly changing my opinion about your company and the level of support that people can expect to receive (something I've defended on several occasions in the past based on my basic faith in the Oculus brand).
Sincerely
Alec Turner
"We warrant that the Product will, under normal and intended use, function substantially in accordance with our technical specifications or accompanying product documentation (the “Warranted Functionality”) during the Warranty Period."
Also ...
"This limited Warranty continues for one (1) year from the
date of purchase or delivery of the Product"
The product has broken under normal and intended use in less than a year from the date of purchase. Seems pretty clear cut to me!
I feel obliged to add that this conversation is being followed with keen interest by a large number of people from the Elite: Dangerous internet gaming community of which I'm a prolific and highly respected member. I've been a strong advocate of your company and the Oculus Rift from the very beginning and have contributed to an extremely large number of discussions and blogs on the subject of Virtual Reality since it's very early days (on a variety of ED, Oculus and VR gaming forums and social media sites). I like to think that I've managed to persuade a large number of people to buy and/or choose the Oculus Rift over other competing devices during that time. While I will continue to stand by the hardware (disappointed tho' I am by the fragility of the headphone mounting) I have to say that this conversation is rapidly changing my opinion about your company and the level of support that people can expect to receive (something I've defended on several occasions in the past based on my basic faith in the Oculus brand).
Sincerely
Alec Turner
[mad]
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Good. Also, their 1 year warranty is laughable in the EU. I don't know why are they still trying to push that 1 year crap on customers.
http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/guarantees-returns/index_en.htm
See Guarantees for faulty goods.
http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/guarantees-returns/index_en.htm
See Guarantees for faulty goods.
Thanks, I spotted that link. I also came across the following which is worth a read for anyone thinking of trying to get a refund under the 2 year EU ruling.
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-1677034/Two-year-warranty-EU-law.html
In this case, despite their rather sad and pathetic use of the phase "you had it for almost a year" (almost/schmalmost you twerps - this is law not playground banter), I didn't bother to mention it because it was UNDER a year ... end of.
Getting a REFUND or EXCHANGE of faulty goods is tricky, getting a REPAIR done free of charge is much easier. Also: "the trader has to provide the solution". If oculus support (apparently - manufacturer) will stand its ground, you may take it to the seller directly. I however think that a few angry e-mail threatening law action will do the trick.
As a sidenote in HTC's warranty there is an instruction that you might be more covered by your national laws (which seems to be the case with the UK, EU warranty aside), and you should determine under which you choose to act. There are quirks to consider however - if you initiate the manufacturer warranty you're basically on their mercy on how long the repair will take. I am by no account a lawyer, I learned all of this while waiting for my HMD to be repaired somewhere in a workshop in Romania, so I symphatize. Pressure them for a shipping label. I am sure they won't "risk" the court battle for headphones which are worth 15€ or less on their side.
Fingers crossed.
Note that under EU law, the two year warranty must be honoured by the seller, not the manufacturer. In this case, it is Amazon that must honour the EU law if you want to try that route. When dealing with Oculus direct, you will only have the warranty they deign to give you - you didn't buy it from them. Oculus will have warranty/repair agreements with their sellers. It is usually best to go via the seller rather than the manufacturer in the EU (and don't be palmed off by the seller - it is always their responsibility to resolve warranty issues if you are a consumer).
On another note, I only just bought a Rift, and compared to the Vive (which I also had) it does seem inferior quality. However, it is lighter and the optics are noticeably better, in my opinion. I sold the Vive on after a short while playing with it. The Oculus will be staying, so I hope that it proves to be more robust than yours, Alec.
On another note, I only just bought a Rift, and compared to the Vive (which I also had) it does seem inferior quality. However, it is lighter and the optics are noticeably better, in my opinion. I sold the Vive on after a short while playing with it. The Oculus will be staying, so I hope that it proves to be more robust than yours, Alec.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Vive/comments/6vng1s/just_received_my_repaired_vive_from_htc_after_a/
Some more "horror stories", from camp Vive this time. Why is support for those high margin products SO SO AMAZINGLY BAD?
Some more "horror stories", from camp Vive this time. Why is support for those high margin products SO SO AMAZINGLY BAD?
I'll share my recent experience with Oculus support.....
About six weeks ago I started getting "HMD is disconnected" repeatedly on my rig. Checked every connector and re-seated everything. Reported to Oculus support who asked for the logs. Two days later they sent through an RMA label and advised my to pack up the headset for replacement. Weirdly they asked me not to use the original box as "a replacement unit would not come in a retail box".....
Off it went to the Netherlands and then all the information stopped. After some repeated messages and eventually tweeting they got back to me with the "Rift sale shortage" canned message. The following week I noticed the order page had updated to "Shipped" and I could follow the tracking information (They didn't email me to say it had shipped until AFTER it was delivered).
However, replacement turned up and was even in a retail box. Overall their service was good but their communications wasn't so great. Combined with a lack of stock due to their sale it wasn't the smooth journey it could have been.
Have since ordered the touch controllers as well. Unit has shipped but no notification of shipping from Oculus....... Clearly a disconnect in their supply chain management system.
About six weeks ago I started getting "HMD is disconnected" repeatedly on my rig. Checked every connector and re-seated everything. Reported to Oculus support who asked for the logs. Two days later they sent through an RMA label and advised my to pack up the headset for replacement. Weirdly they asked me not to use the original box as "a replacement unit would not come in a retail box".....
Off it went to the Netherlands and then all the information stopped. After some repeated messages and eventually tweeting they got back to me with the "Rift sale shortage" canned message. The following week I noticed the order page had updated to "Shipped" and I could follow the tracking information (They didn't email me to say it had shipped until AFTER it was delivered).
However, replacement turned up and was even in a retail box. Overall their service was good but their communications wasn't so great. Combined with a lack of stock due to their sale it wasn't the smooth journey it could have been.
Have since ordered the touch controllers as well. Unit has shipped but no notification of shipping from Oculus....... Clearly a disconnect in their supply chain management system.
That sucks Alec. Unfortunately this type of response isn't unique to Oculus. I can see it from both sides and this type of failure is really difficult to determine if it was a manufacturing fault vs accidental damage. Obviously you know what really happened but from Oculus perspective they probably get a lot of request where the user drops the rift and breaks their rift and files a claim. Usually it seems like unless there ends of being a significant percentage of Rift's that develop the broken headphone issue within a year they aren't going to admit a manufacturing defect for that type of damage.
I think your response was appropriate and it may yet get resolved.
Good luck
I think your response was appropriate and it may yet get resolved.
Good luck
I don't understand the crap, this "Oculus support" guy is telling. What he says would be fine if the Rift was more than 1 and less than 2 years old. (EU seems capitulated before Apple, Sony and so on companies,, refusing to give 2Y warranty). Unless he refers to first and last 6 months of the warranty - If I remember correctly in first part you don't have to "prove" you have misused the product, while in second they might say you weren't handling it with care. Never heard of such nonsense and rude attitude from a vendor in Europe though.
I'd put that the story and info in Amazon recommendation (or edit your existing decreasing to 1*). That usually gets the attention needed..
I'd suggest to ask explicitly if they will fix it for free. If they say NO, get the rift back and talk to Amazon! I've seen friends returning/exchanging products after 23 months usage without any problem. I'd also go to local customers protection office (not sure if such exist in country you live, or how it would be called)-they will write a nice legal letter and usually that gives the necessary kick to the clever manufacturer.. Fingers crossed!
For complete step away from contract afaik you'd need them to attempt repairing/swapping the product 3 times. After that you have right of getting the money back..but this is not the intention, neither the case I presume.
I'd put that the story and info in Amazon recommendation (or edit your existing decreasing to 1*). That usually gets the attention needed..
I'd suggest to ask explicitly if they will fix it for free. If they say NO, get the rift back and talk to Amazon! I've seen friends returning/exchanging products after 23 months usage without any problem. I'd also go to local customers protection office (not sure if such exist in country you live, or how it would be called)-they will write a nice legal letter and usually that gives the necessary kick to the clever manufacturer.. Fingers crossed!
For complete step away from contract afaik you'd need them to attempt repairing/swapping the product 3 times. After that you have right of getting the money back..but this is not the intention, neither the case I presume.
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If you bought it through Amazon, your beef is with them in the first instance. You shouldn't let them try and defer it to Oculus either.
However, as you have already opened dialogue with Oculus you can try and keep going with them if you want.
Frankly, using the tactic of saying how vocal you've been supporting them and spreading the word on their behalf only really cements their current stance as it makes you seem more desperate to justify a replacement on grounds other than the real issue - the actual fault.
Describe the fault in excruciating detail while all along mentioning how well you have looked after it and treated it carefully etc.
Tell them that this type of fault on a product costing 'x' amount that has been treated so well is both unexpected and unacceptable.
Just stick to the cold hard facts. You can even put it in a bullet point list if you like.
For the record, I have had a number of companies try this sort of thing with me and not one has ever come out on top!
However, as you have already opened dialogue with Oculus you can try and keep going with them if you want.
Frankly, using the tactic of saying how vocal you've been supporting them and spreading the word on their behalf only really cements their current stance as it makes you seem more desperate to justify a replacement on grounds other than the real issue - the actual fault.
Describe the fault in excruciating detail while all along mentioning how well you have looked after it and treated it carefully etc.
Tell them that this type of fault on a product costing 'x' amount that has been treated so well is both unexpected and unacceptable.
Just stick to the cold hard facts. You can even put it in a bullet point list if you like.
For the record, I have had a number of companies try this sort of thing with me and not one has ever come out on top!
IDK, making fuzz on social media (reddit, twitter, fb) helped a lot of people with "hopeless" cases. r/oculus and r/Vive are full of stories about corporate people "persuading" support after the escalation finally got to them. It seems very likely that the aftersales support is outsourced in both cases, and sometimes word has to get out to Oculus / HTC reps to intervene.
All in all, without HMD being inspected, Oculus support claims are laughable at best. Do they have a crystal ball? Is it an acceptable way to deal with such premium paying customers?
Ok, I've read the warranty document and it's clear:
How Long Does Coverage Last? This limited Warranty continues for one (1) year from the date of purchase or delivery of the Product, whichever is later (the “Warranty Period”). However, if you purchase the Product from within the EU, the Warranty Period shall be two (2) years.
So they don't get cheap by throwing 2nd year towards the reseller and theoretically cover the whole 2 year period.
Among limited warranty conditions there is no single word about headphones so those are part of the Rift and under general warranty.
I think the support is trying to explain that the device was damaged by an accident / misuse, hence cannot be repaired for free under warranty conditions. No idea how they came to that conclusion though.
My approach would be - if you haven't sent the Rift to Oculus, talk to Amazon asap.
How Long Does Coverage Last? This limited Warranty continues for one (1) year from the date of purchase or delivery of the Product, whichever is later (the “Warranty Period”). However, if you purchase the Product from within the EU, the Warranty Period shall be two (2) years.
So they don't get cheap by throwing 2nd year towards the reseller and theoretically cover the whole 2 year period.
Among limited warranty conditions there is no single word about headphones so those are part of the Rift and under general warranty.
I think the support is trying to explain that the device was damaged by an accident / misuse, hence cannot be repaired for free under warranty conditions. No idea how they came to that conclusion though.
My approach would be - if you haven't sent the Rift to Oculus, talk to Amazon asap.
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Day 10
Thanks for reaching back out to me. As this unit didn't arrive in this condition and was a result of wear and tear this is not something that is currently covered under warranty as mentioned in the section for what the warranty does not cover. The photos show clear damage to the headphones where they were snapped which means this didn't just fall off it was subjected to force. To resolve this you can use 3rd party headphones or you're welcome to purchase replacement ones on our site. Accidental damage and wear and tear is not something that is currently covered under warranty. To avoid future issues please be careful how you store your Rift and if you lift the headphones on the side please do it slowly with little force. If you require additional assistance or have further questions please let me know and I'd be happy to help.
Sincerely,
Oculus Support
----
I really don't know how to get past this. The headphones really were NOT subject to force. As I said (although clearly I can't prove this) I'm EXTREMELY careful with my Rift. I always lift it VERY carefully onto my head, gently lifting the headphones out of the way while getting the headset into position and then gently releasing them back onto my ears once I've done so. I should also add that I've NEVER dropped the headset or knocked it into anything. On the morning in question I simply lifted the headset up as normal, went to spring the headphones into their off-ear position prior to putting the headset on and the right-hand arm just snapped and went loose. I was as surprised as you seem to be about this. In order to show the damage with the photos I sent you I then VERY gently teased the broken armature into the position you see it in on image IMG_1547 but at no time have I EVER used excessive force. In tilting the headset to get those photos, the metal pins that I photographed simply fell out, along with the tiny bit of broken plastic you can see in IMG_1550. Would it help if I sent some video of the damaged headphones? Would it help if I spoke to you in person? I don't know what else to do. I honestly don't think that something I paid over £500 for should have broken this easily in under a year and I'm really starting to feel like you're treating me in a pretty shabby fashion for someone I would have thought you might consider a valued customer. To be honest I'm hearing the same story from a LOT of other sources now. I really want to support Oculus and to defend what I consider to be a good product against its naysayers but you're making it incredibly difficult for me to remain positive.
Alec
Thanks for reaching back out to me. As this unit didn't arrive in this condition and was a result of wear and tear this is not something that is currently covered under warranty as mentioned in the section for what the warranty does not cover. The photos show clear damage to the headphones where they were snapped which means this didn't just fall off it was subjected to force. To resolve this you can use 3rd party headphones or you're welcome to purchase replacement ones on our site. Accidental damage and wear and tear is not something that is currently covered under warranty. To avoid future issues please be careful how you store your Rift and if you lift the headphones on the side please do it slowly with little force. If you require additional assistance or have further questions please let me know and I'd be happy to help.
Sincerely,
Oculus Support
----
I really don't know how to get past this. The headphones really were NOT subject to force. As I said (although clearly I can't prove this) I'm EXTREMELY careful with my Rift. I always lift it VERY carefully onto my head, gently lifting the headphones out of the way while getting the headset into position and then gently releasing them back onto my ears once I've done so. I should also add that I've NEVER dropped the headset or knocked it into anything. On the morning in question I simply lifted the headset up as normal, went to spring the headphones into their off-ear position prior to putting the headset on and the right-hand arm just snapped and went loose. I was as surprised as you seem to be about this. In order to show the damage with the photos I sent you I then VERY gently teased the broken armature into the position you see it in on image IMG_1547 but at no time have I EVER used excessive force. In tilting the headset to get those photos, the metal pins that I photographed simply fell out, along with the tiny bit of broken plastic you can see in IMG_1550. Would it help if I sent some video of the damaged headphones? Would it help if I spoke to you in person? I don't know what else to do. I honestly don't think that something I paid over £500 for should have broken this easily in under a year and I'm really starting to feel like you're treating me in a pretty shabby fashion for someone I would have thought you might consider a valued customer. To be honest I'm hearing the same story from a LOT of other sources now. I really want to support Oculus and to defend what I consider to be a good product against its naysayers but you're making it incredibly difficult for me to remain positive.
Alec
Ok, that is actually a great outcome - forget Oculus, send the support to hell (sorry, meant some fat neutron star) and call Amazon for RMA and replacement!
It doesn't matter if you like using their headset with heavy metal type of head movements - it's broken during warranty period. End of story.
P.S. once Amazon confirms RMA, leave a very negative feedback there for Oculus. People should know and we, gamers, tolerate far too much all the greed and incorrect customer relations nowadays.
Can anyone supply me with an Amazon URL, phone number or email address for enquiries concerning returning items and/or contacting the seller for orders that have no direct "Contact Seller" or "Return/Replace items" button next to them. Every linked I've followed thus far has taken me back to this page ...
Or am I screwed because of the "Amazon EU S.a.r.L." thing?