Hardware & Technical Need advice - nvidia 3D stereo (aka 3D Vision)

[FoxTwo]

Hey guys,

I'm currently contemplating getting a setup that would enable me to play ED in stereoscopic 3D (kinda like those on 3D TVs).

I'm wondering if anyone else has already done this, and how does ED perform under stereoscopic 3D? Anything "misplaced", ie floating where it shouldn't be?

Currently what I understand that I need to get would be:

1. Get the 3D Vision kit, ie glasses plus transmitter
2. Get a monitor that is capable of 144Hz refresh.

If the above is incorrect please let me know.

Also, would appreciate advice on which specific hardware to get (brands/models) if there are any that performs better/worse than others. Eg maybe you guys may say "Acer monitors perform better than BenQ" for example.

Plus I already have TrackIR 3, which means I can easily stick another dot on the 3D glasses for head tracking

No I would *NOT* consider VR for various reasons I'd rather not get into here.

 

[NW3]

I think you need to get a monitor that claims to be "3D Vision ready", like this one: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236313&ignorebbr=1

I have a different model ASUS Gaming Monitor, which I like very much. I have the ASUS MG28UQ Black 28" 4K Adaptive-Sync (Free Sync) Gaming Monitor. I strongly considered going the 3D route, but decided 4K resolution was more important.

Years ago, I played Quake with NVidia 3D shutter glasses and loved it, but those glasses only worked with old-style CRT monitors.

I have tried to use anaglyph 3D (using red/blue glasses) in Elite, with limited success. Using the NVidia driver's 3D mode, I was never able to get the depths to render correctly (the galaxy cloud appeared to be inside the cockpit). That was using the "compatible" setting in the drivers, the default was much worse (the cockpit UI was rendered at he wrong depth). In the end, I occasionally use the anaglyph mode built into Elite. Unfortunately, that mode has a color issue (which I've reported). The green channel is actually the right-eye red channel, so the only colors rendered are shades of yellow and blue. (There's no green or red shades - NVidia gets the colors right, but the depths are wrong.) Why do I even use the in-game anaglyph mode? It helps prevent motion sickness when I'm driving the SRV and really makes the terrain come alive.

I have an EDTracker, which works great with the 3D to make the world "feel real", so your TrackIR should be a real benefit in that regard.

I hope you have better success. I plan to get a VR setup in the future, once the glasses resolution has been increased.

 

[FoxTwo]

I think you need to get a monitor that claims to be "3D Vision ready", like this one: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236313&ignorebbr=1

Ah thanks, I will take note to look for those claiming to be 3D Vision ready, not just 144 Hz.

Years ago, I played Quake with NVidia 3D shutter glasses and loved it, but those glasses only worked with old-style CRT monitors.

Yup, I had the same setup as you, that's why I'm thinking of going back that route. I played Castle Wolfenstien in Stereo 3D and I was so scared of the zombies that I stopped playing in 3D... too real

I have tried to use anaglyph 3D (using red/blue glasses) in Elite, with limited success. Using the NVidia driver's 3D mode, I was never able to get the depths to render correctly (the galaxy cloud appeared to be inside the cockpit). That was using the "compatible" setting in the drivers, the default was much worse (the cockpit UI was rendered at he wrong depth).

Ouch... if it's that way for anaglyph, it probably is the same for 3D Stereo too. Dang! I thought things like this should not happen now since people have been playing ED in VR, and inside VR it's also true 3D stereoscopic vision.

I hope you have better success. I plan to get a VR setup in the future, once the glasses resolution has been increased.

Thanks. At the very least, even if it's a bust for ED, there are other games that should work better/excellent with it.... so it won't be a total bust.

 

[Asp Explorer]

Personally, I'd forget the entire idea.

3D glasses are, for reasons you will soon encounter, a wholly disappointing experience.

 

[Friedenreich Xante]

Personally, I'd forget the entire idea.

3D glasses are, for reasons you will soon encounter, a wholly disappointing experience.

I totally agree. In the movie Theater, my eyes get tired in no time. It is really stressing to the eye.

 

[FoxTwo]

Personally, I'd forget the entire idea.

3D glasses are, for reasons you will soon encounter, a wholly disappointing experience.

I totally agree. In the movie Theater, my eyes get tired in no time. It is really stressing to the eye.

You guys missed the part where I mentioned I had already done this back in the 90s... with 3D shutter glasses and playing games such as Castle Wolfenstien, Quake, Doom, Falcon 4, etc in 3D Stereo...so I already know what they're like.

But thank you for the headsup though.

 

[Friedenreich Xante]

You guys missed the part where I mentioned I had already done this back in the 90s... with 3D shutter glasses and playing games such as Castle Wolfenstien, Quake, Doom, Falcon 4, etc in 3D Stereo...so I already know what they're like.

But thank you for the headsup though.

You must have handsome extraocular muscles. Do you eye-squat? Me jealous.

 

[FoxTwo]

You must have handsome extraocular muscles. Do you eye-squat? Me jealous.

I never had a problem with vertigo ( or motion sickness). Plus my monitor was 120 Hz so the shutters were flashing at 60 hz per eye (same refresh rate as LCD monitors now)... didn't really see any flickering so eyes weren't tired.

Hence my earlier assumption that getting a 144 Hz monitor should be enough (more than 120 Hz, 60 fps per eye like in the old days)

I don't know how the glasses in the movie theatres work, but if they're the shutter kind and they're only flashing at 30 hz per eye, yes you will get tired (30 fps per eye).

 

[NW3]

Movie theater glasses have no flicker, because they are not "active" shutter glasses. They simply use polarized plastic film (either linear or circular, depending on the particular implementation). I've used shutter glasses with a plasma TV and they worked great.

Regarding the 3D issues in E: D, I've heard that Helix Mod can fix the depth problems, but I've never used it. For more info, search this forum for "3D Helix Mod". This seems pertinent: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...3D-Vision-Monitor-Help?highlight=3D+Helix+Mod

Here's a link to the mod: http://helixmod.blogspot.com/2013/10/game-list-automatically-updated.html There are 2 entries in the list for Elite Dangerous, you should read them both, earlier post first.

 

[SMcA]

Hey guys,

I'm currently contemplating getting a setup that would enable me to play ED in stereoscopic 3D (kinda like those on 3D TVs).

I'm wondering if anyone else has already done this, and how does ED perform under stereoscopic 3D? Anything "misplaced", ie floating where it shouldn't be?

Currently what I understand that I need to get would be:

1. Get the 3D Vision kit, ie glasses plus transmitter
2. Get a monitor that is capable of 144Hz refresh.

If the above is incorrect please let me know.

Also, would appreciate advice on which specific hardware to get (brands/models) if there are any that performs better/worse than others. Eg maybe you guys may say "Acer monitors perform better than BenQ" for example.

Plus I already have TrackIR 3, which means I can easily stick another dot on the 3D glasses for head tracking

No I would *NOT* consider VR for various reasons I'd rather not get into here.

I have a Benq "3D Vision ready" monitor and Nvidia shutter glasses. Bought especially for ED.
It is a big disappointment. Playing with the glasses the game looks like a 1970's arcade game. In the stations the lights float and the scene seems to be in layers.
So unless you have another use for it. I would recommend going for a 4k monitor.

 

[FoxTwo]

Regarding the 3D issues in E: D, I've heard that Helix Mod can fix the depth problems, but I've never used it. For more info, search this forum for "3D Helix Mod". This seems pertinent: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...3D-Vision-Monitor-Help?highlight=3D+Helix+Mod

Here's a link to the mod: http://helixmod.blogspot.com/2013/10/game-list-automatically-updated.html There are 2 entries in the list for Elite Dangerous, you should read them both, earlier post first.

If I could rep you again I would. Thanks man!

But first, I'd still need to get the necessary hardware (glasses and monitor) before I start mucking about with 3D in games

I have a Benq "3D Vision ready" monitor and Nvidia shutter glasses. Bought especially for ED.
It is a big disappointment. Playing with the glasses the game looks like a 1970's arcade game. In the stations the lights float and the scene seems to be in layers.
So unless you have another use for it. I would recommend going for a 4k monitor.

Ah thanks... will take your comments into consideration too, before I decide one way or another.

 

[SMcA]

Ah thanks... will take your comments into consideration too, before I decide one way or another.

I know. Not what you wanted to hear.
I just tried it again and it is no better. It looks good when using the external camera, though.

 

[DNA-Decay]

Yeah I've wondered about this.
I'd go some flicker if I could plug in some active glasses and get about 25 fps of stereo on the big plasma telly.
It's not 3D ready of anything - but surely running a pair of shuttered glasses and getting some sort sync is a solved problem?

The game can do "left eye - right eye" isn't it 'just' a matter of syncing frame display to a polarizing shutter?

It seems not uh 'trivial' but not 'hard' in the mathematical sense.

 

[Deep Thought 42]

I use Nvidia 3D Elite may work out of the box for VR but needs a fix for Nividia 3D http://helixmod.blogspot.co.uk/2016/09/elite-dangerous-sept-6-2016-update-by.html

Game runs smooth in space i get a small FPS drop on planets but i expect that

System specs
Amd 8350 4Ghz
16Gb Ram
Gigabyte 770GTX 4Gb

Ultra GFX Settings

 

[VR andysonofbob]

Warning, below is a rant. Open at you own risk...

Spoiler

I HATE it when people compare gaming in stereo to watching tv or movies in stereo. The only thing it is useful for is telling you all you need to know about the knowledge the person has with regard to 3D.

Eye strain is the EXACT same eyestrain you get from looking at a laptop screen. Also, actual optometrists like S3D because it can highlight problems which need attention.

I teach. My colleague is media teacher. He used to slate 3D big time because how badly it sucks in movies. I showed him Portal 2. By the end of the fade from white at the very start, he said, this is not a gimmick. Within 5 seconds he had gone from 3D sucks to it's awesome. I then showed him Witcher 2. End of the story: colleague now says 3D tv and (most) movies suck.

Sorry if my usual mellow and friendly tone comes across a bit hostile but 3D Vision is SO good - so amazingly good, so effective, so immersive that I am still bitter the greedy movie corps effectively killed it with their software conversions. One of the core reasons we have this gen of VR is because of how good S3D is for games. Part of the allure of VR is the stereoscopy.

If you have played The Witcher 3 in 3D. It would blow you away.

To the OP. I made a 3D Vision fix but I went VR so I haven't updated it. But I think others have. ED looks NUTS in 3D. But you need to add the fix.
https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/882500/3d-vision/elite-dangerous-fix/1/

edit
Yeah looks like people have! ED updates tend to break the fix though. :/
http://helixmod.blogspot.co.uk/2016/09/elite-dangerous-sept-6-2016-update-by.html

 

[Frank]

The Nvidia 3D patch might work better than Frontier's own inbuilt SBS mode, which halves the resolution of the picture. I've used that SBS mode on my sitting room telly before. The advantage is that it really makes the cockpit pop out, and the struts on your windscreen are less obtrusive. The disadvantage is that it makes everything look really really tiny, but then my telly isn't exactly the biggest one you can buy. YMMV


In reply to Andy's rant which ninja'd me...
There are good 3D movies and bad ones. The worst offenders are the ones which started out as 2D but were then converted to join the bandwagon. They have all the jump cuts that don't allow your eyeballs to get used to the stereoscopic scene. 3D gaming is easier n the eyes as it usually keeps to the same viewpoint.

I don't notice any eyestrain with either 3D movies or games. That's because I'm old and my ciliary muscles have given up on me and my lenses are becoming hard and brittle, so everything looks out of focus anyway <grin>

 

[VR andysonofbob]

The Nvidia 3D patch might work better than Frontier's own inbuilt SBS mode, which halves the resolution of the picture. I've used that SBS mode on my sitting room telly before. The advantage is that it really makes the cockpit pop out, and the struts on your windscreen are less obtrusive. The disadvantage is that it makes everything look really really tiny, but then my telly isn't exactly the biggest one you can buy. YMMV

Yeah the 3D vision is good! Things look big. It's VR quality 3D. But not VR so things don't look REAL big.

 

[Luniticisi]

The only way that I have played ED in 3D (See what I did there ) is on a 3D TV using the in-built (ED Menu) 3D .. that was pretty cool.

 

[VR Dextrovix]

OK, I've used nVidia's glasses for a number of years, but since trying an Oculus Rift DK1 with ED in 2014, I've never wanted to continue with the patchy support from nVidia, and sold them.

However, I'm in the know so in this case, the problem as already described is that using nVidia's glasses with their native driver doesn't render objects at the correct depths. Certain games do work properly- I had great fun with Bioshock Infinite which seemed to render perfectly, but the entire product seemed to me to have little proper fleshed out support from nVidia to get developers to write titles tested with it.

Generally, software has to have specifically written support it, as the generic support is to try and best guess depths- hence the poor results in this case unfortunately. I remembered reading someone had botched a fix and I see NW3 has linked it- I've never tried it with ED (sold the glasses by then), but the Helix Mod has fixed up quite a few titles unofficially that I did try.

But to answer your hardware questions, you don't need a monitor with specific nVidia 3D support if you already have the glasses with the IR module, as that part was what has been built in to some displays (at extra cost of course), along with the mandatory 144hz. If you don't have the module, you'll either need one (it plugs in via USB) or a panel that has that built in. For me, I'd got the module with the glasses, so just found a nice Asus panel that support the 144hz, which also needs a special dual-DVI cable (because it effectively has to send both a left and right rendered display at once to the panel, so a normal DVI cable won't work).

 

[FoxTwo]

Warning, below is a rant. Open at you own risk...

Yup heheh I knew about those. That's why I wasn't worried about the posts that mentioned eye-strain. 60 fps is what I see on LCD screens now and I don't get tired, so shutter glasses flashing at 60 hz per eye wouldn't either.

If you have played The Witcher 3 in 3D. It would blow you away.

I *MUST* try it then... I'm already leaning heavily towards getting the 3D setup. As I said, even if ED is a bust for 3D stereo, I can still use it for other games. However I'd prefer if ED works with it.

To the OP. I made a 3D Vision fix but I went VR so I haven't updated it. But I think others have. ED looks NUTS in 3D. But you need to add the fix.
https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/882500/3d-vision/elite-dangerous-fix/1/

edit
Yeah looks like people have! ED updates tend to break the fix though. :/
http://helixmod.blogspot.co.uk/2016/09/elite-dangerous-sept-6-2016-update-by.html

Yup, a couple of posts have already pointed your mod out... awesome! I've even taken a look at the sample screenshots of the fix, and the depth perception looks ok to me. Yes, I used the cross-eye method to look at the side-by-side pics and I can see depth in the pics.

I use Nvidia 3D Elite may work out of the box for VR but needs a fix for Nividia 3D http://helixmod.blogspot.co.uk/2016/09/elite-dangerous-sept-6-2016-update-by.html

Thanks much As I said, I'm leaning heavily towards getting my 3D setup. I've actually gone to the store and purchased a "3D Vision Ready" BenQ monitor just now too, and currently using it (nvidia control panel reads it as 144 hz).

But to answer your hardware questions, you don't need a monitor with specific nVidia 3D support if you already have the glasses with the IR module, as that part was what has been built in to some displays (at extra cost of course), along with the mandatory 144hz. If you don't have the module, you'll either need one (it plugs in via USB) or a panel that has that built in. For me, I'd got the module with the glasses, so just found a nice Asus panel that support the 144hz, which also needs a special dual-DVI cable (because it effectively has to send both a left and right rendered display at once to the panel, so a normal DVI cable won't work).

Thank you, that was VERY helpful. Yes, I swapped my old DVI cable out for the one that came with my new BenQ monitor, since the manual listed it as a "DVI-D Dual Link Cable" in the packing list. I'm now just looking to get the 3D Vision kit. The newegg link that someone posted earlier looked promising. I'm only just currently looking for a better price, if I am able to get any