Need help from audiophiles or anyone

I need some assistance to see if I am missing out on a better audio experience in Elite. It sounds good to me now but I want to make sure I am not missing out on making it sound better.

Here are my system specs

My sound card is the Realtek High Definition Audio chipset on a MSI A88x-G45 Gaming mother board
It came with Sound Blaster Cinema
My speakers are Logitech something with 5.1 speakers

Could anyone please answer these questions?

Would adding the Sound Blaster Z make a none/small/medium/large difference to what I have now? What would be a better option?
Do I need to use a equalizer and if so which one and settings?
Is there anything else I can do to make Elite sound better than it already does?

Thank you and Godspeed in space

Plenty of good advice in this thread.

It seems you are fairly happy with the quality of the sound now, so before spending anymore money, why not try to perfect the set up you have now.

First, speaker placement:

I'd start by placing you centre speaker wherever is the most convenient. Then measure the distance between this speaker and your head where you normally sit while playing. (It helps to have another person to help with this.)

Then place your left and right speakers. You want to place them at the same distance as the center speaker, and the same distance again from each other. Basically form an equalateral triangle between your head and these two speakers.

Any studio people will tell you to then angle these speakers in towards your head to give you better stereo image, but personally I like to keep them firing straight ahead, as this will give a better phase correlation and give you a better near field sound.

Next place your rear speakers. Again the same distance from your head at about 10-15 degrees behind you. Point these in at your head.


All of this is great but is generally very difficult to fit properly around people's desks, rooms etc. The left and right speakers are the most important, so try to keep these setup following the equalateral triangle rule, and then compromise with the other speakers. (It may be possible to fix problems here software side. More later)


The other important thing when placing speakers is the Space Loading. Most smaller speakers are generally designed around a half space loading, meaning placed on a desk or attached to a wall.

Problems arrise when the speaker is placed on a desk right against a wall (quarter space), or worse on a desk in a corner of a room so a wall right behind it and right beside it (eight space), or the greatest crime, inside a bookshelf or such.

Because of the small displacement and low volumes of these speakers, only 15 cms or so is enough distance to avoid problems with space loading.

Again real life often makes correct placement difficult. The best thing to do is try to compromise and make sure all speakers are affected by the same loading. If all the speakers are affected in the same way then it won't affect the balance between the speakers, and it may be easier to EQ out the problems.

If you have walls behind the speakers it'll boost the low end, making the sound muddy. Walls running beside, or desks underneath extended infront of the speakers will boost the whole frequency spectrum but not evenly.


Once you have your speakers placed in the best possible way, it's time to look at ways to fix problems by affecting the audio signal.

Under 'Hardware and Sound' you should have Realtek HD Audio Manager or a similar program.

In this you will find two very useful tabs. Room Correction and Sound Effects

With the Room Correction tab, you can make adjustments for the differing distance between you speakers and your head. Setting the distance will delay the sound to make sure that the sound from each speaker will reach your ears at the same time. The volume adjustment allows you to adjust the volume of each speaker to compensate for distance and space loading.

You lose about 6db each time you double the distance. Adjusting for space loading is far more problematic, best just to play with it and see if you set a good balance between all speakers.

Under Sound Effects, you will find some reverb effects, don't bother with these, but at the bottom you should find an EQ section.

Unfortunately, there is no universal settings for EQ, so I can't give you any suggested settings. EQ is dependant on the reponse of the speakers, their placement in the room, the room itself and you own ears.

A good thing to do, is listen to some music through a set of good headphones, then listen to the same music again through the speakers, and adjust the EQ till you have something that resembles the sound in the headphones, or at least sounds good to you.

Please remember that speakers have limitations in producing certain frequencies especially at the extremes of our hearing range and trying to push these frequencies all the way up can likely damage your speakers.


Sorry for such a long read, but hopefully it helps someone.

On a side note, a couple people have mentioned using Optical s/pdif to run their systems. To my knowledge this only works in 5.1 when receiving Dolby Digital or DTS encoded sources found on movies etc, but doesn't work with computer games. With games s/pdif is only capable of stereo. Are the people using opitcal links actually running Elite in 5.1? If so how?
 
I'm not using my computer to do the Digital to Analogue conversion (as others in this thread have suggested). So I don't currently have a sound card installed in my computer but am passing multi-channel, non-lossy compressed audio through HDMI to my NAD AV receiver and Focal speakers+REL sub. I used to have a Creative ZxR but now it's packed away and I just use the HDMI out of my video card. The days of the soundcard are possibly numbered (unless you want ASIO or some Creative Gimmickery etc).

The other side-effect is that I can use something like Power-DVD to pass through DTS Master Audio or Dolby TrueHD to my amp when watching Bluray discs. I have no need for a sound card (or lossy compressed audio).

My two-cents is: consider passing through your digital signal from your computer to an external decoder, thereby de-coupling an important part of the audio chain from your computer (ie Digital to Analogue conversion). This way you can treat things entirely separately and either go headphones or 3/2.1 speakers etc with equipment that you can match to your budget.

Better check again if you think sound cards are "lossy".

Your HDMI connection is not a pass-through, which means it's either being processed by your on-board or your GPU, and there is loss. The only pass-through devices you'll get on a PC is SPDIF set for a PCM signal. Only a few motherboards and most sound cards have that.

If you have your PC set for a 192k signal, the vast majority of your audio is either being upscaled or downscaled to fit that signal size. HDMI does not act as a pass-through on PC.

You won't find ASIO outside of cheap generic cards from China, they haven't been relevant in 15 years. How long has it been since you used a real sound card? The ZxR is a "gaming" sound card. That alone should've tipped you off before you ever purchased it.

Whenever you turn on DTS, Dolby or any other software you are processing, and formatting, the audio. The only format that you get untampered audio through PowerDVD with is FLAC, assuming that you turn off literally every audio option it offers first. In truth you're better off using any simple free FLAC player you can google, because they DON'T have the option to screw up your settings.

The only way you get a lossless digital signal out of a PC for all formats is SPDIF pass-through, and even then you'll just have to calm your audiophile nerves and learn to accept the inferior yet indistinguishable 44k format. Everything else is being tampered with in some way by your processor, your GPU, your onboard audio, your software, etc....
 
You are welcome to come round and listen to my Rogers Export Monitors any time you wish. Despite being over 30 years old there is a reason why the BBC had them made and why they still command a price over £1000 for a used set. (£2000 per unit when new).

I can assure you that you will be able to tell the difference between a monitor and a 'speaker'. :)


My point, not that there isn't a better and worse sounding setup...it's just that the differences become less and less as you spend more money. Diminishing returns. The more you spend the less difference there is between each next jump. Unless you are 'into audio' and understand the 'nuances'...there is little discernible difference for the 'untrained'...

You see enough of a difference in your setup to pay thousands of quid...most people can't be bothered.
 
My system:
Asus Sabertooth 990FX
Built-in Realtek
Denon AH-D600 over ear headphones
Logitech 2.1 speakers

I started to really notice buzzing from the speakers / headphones since I started playing ED back in Feb (had a few years out of PC gaming). I moved internal cards around, changed drivers, re-routed all cables inside the PC case. I put up with buzzing / noise from the speakers / headphones for a few months, before taking the plunge and buying the SoundBlaster Z. The difference was truly amazing. Sound clarity is now fantastic through the Denon cans.

If you have a decent set of speakers / headphones, then I truly believe that an extra £70 for a soundcard will make a (big) difference. It did for me IMHO.
 
One of the best things I've ever bought, PC wise, is the Xonar D2X.

Oh yes.

The audio in this game is incredible and that pushing a powerful surround system is just...mmmm.
 
Last edited:
My point, not that there isn't a better and worse sounding setup...it's just that the differences become less and less as you spend more money. Diminishing returns. The more you spend the less difference there is between each next jump. Unless you are 'into audio' and understand the 'nuances'...there is little discernible difference for the 'untrained'...

You see enough of a difference in your setup to pay thousands of quid...most people can't be bothered.

Holy crap yes this. I'm tired of people who justify the diminishing returns. If I have to have a specialist clean my ears and trim out the hair so that I'm not possibly missing the "nuances" between your audio setup and mine, I don't care.
 
I highly recommend going the headphones route:
Sennheiser 650 HD + ASUS XONAR Essence ST(X) PCI/PCI-E sound-card as it has a very nice DAC and headphone amp.

If you need a mic? then buy a 5$ clip-on one and you are laughing.
 
Last edited:
I highly recommend going the headphones route:
Sennheiser 650 HD + ASUS XONAR Essence ST(X) PCI/PCI-E sound-card as it has a very nice DAC and headphone amp.

If you need a mic? then buy a 5$ clip-on one and you are laughing.
http://www.amazon.com/Olympus-ME-52W-Noise-Canceling-Microphone/dp/B000MYPPPE/ref=sr_1_1?s=office-products&ie=UTF8&qid=1442322637&sr=1-1&keywords=Olympus+ME-52W

Been using one of these for years and I still haven't come across anyone in TS that sounds clearer. Price has gone up for some reason, I only paid $12 for my last one. It even sounded better than your standard headset mic after I accidentally curb-stomped it with my heel into half a dozen pieces, kind of smooshed it back together and held everything with black tape and continued using it for a week until the replacement came in the mail. :D

Compare that to my last $200 "gaming" headset, whose mic I had to replace every 3 months for $15 even if I didn't touch the cheap piece of crap.
 
Logitech H800 headphones w/mic. About 100 USD. Light, great sound and offers bluetooth, wireless and wired as options. You can game, switch over to teleconference on your cell phone all without removing the headset. I also have Bose QC-15 and they are great sounding but hurt my ears (the ear itself, not a sound issue) after awhile.

I don't like cup style headphones that much except for music to drown out external sounds. While gaming I don't care about that, it's pretty quiet in my office.
 
I went from a Realtek® ALC 892 8-Channel High Definition Audio CODEC to Soundbaster Z (bought refurbished one for around 50 bucks) and it was a huge difference in sound. I always thought Realtek was good enough, but no it's not.
 
My speakers are Logitech something with 5.1 speakers

... use headphones, not speakers.

Iv'e tried a couple of pairs, expensive ones costing over 150 Euro and Inexpensive ones costing around 10 Euro from Tesco.

The Expensive ones broke because they were flimsy, and the sound quality was not all that.

The inexpensive ones work perfectly, and have an inbuilt mic...
 
Last edited:
I have a SoundBlaster Audigy 2 ZS Platinum, and it does sound very well, compared to Realtek's onboard sounds. It has better basses, better highs and above all, it is a 3D card. I mean that i can listen to things happening at my back, above or below where i am in the game, using my stereo headphones, via analog connection. I have an Edifier K580 headphones.

S!

PS: I have the output sound configured at 2.1 and CMSS in the respective tabs on control panel.

S!
 
I have a pair of Logitech wireless G930 7.1 headphones and they are amazing. The software has an equalizer and you feel immersed in the area you are gaming in.

They are over ear and cut down on non-game noise. Plus you can crank up the volume without disturbing others.

Throwing it out there.
 
I use HDMI (playback device set to Intel Display Audio) to an AV receiver. It's a trouble free setup for all games and movies played via VLC.
 
I wouldn't exactly call myself an audiophile but I do like good sound. So I'll throw in my advice too. Speakers/headphones are the most important part of your setup. It's where most of your money should go. It's also the most subjective. So you really can't take an online recommendation too seriously. If you have access to it locally go to a pro audio shop like where a sound engineer would shop, NOT an audiophile or high end place. Sound engineers are interested in what sounds best for the money. High end shops sell shiny things.
 
Better check again if you think sound cards are "lossy".

Your HDMI connection is not a pass-through, which means it's either being processed by your on-board or your GPU, and there is loss. The only pass-through devices you'll get on a PC is SPDIF set for a PCM signal. Only a few motherboards and most sound cards have that.

If you have your PC set for a 192k signal, the vast majority of your audio is either being upscaled or downscaled to fit that signal size. HDMI does not act as a pass-through on PC.

You won't find ASIO outside of cheap generic cards from China, they haven't been relevant in 15 years. How long has it been since you used a real sound card? The ZxR is a "gaming" sound card. That alone should've tipped you off before you ever purchased it.

Whenever you turn on DTS, Dolby or any other software you are processing, and formatting, the audio. The only format that you get untampered audio through PowerDVD with is FLAC, assuming that you turn off literally every audio option it offers first. In truth you're better off using any simple free FLAC player you can google, because they DON'T have the option to screw up your settings.

The only way you get a lossless digital signal out of a PC for all formats is SPDIF pass-through, and even then you'll just have to calm your audiophile nerves and learn to accept the inferior yet indistinguishable 44k format. Everything else is being tampered with in some way by your processor, your GPU, your onboard audio, your software, etc....

Ok, wow - you just read a whole lot of stuff into what I said. I actually agree with everything you said apart from the bits where you infer that I'm saying stuff that I didn't. It always pays to check when you reply to someone whether you may actually be reading too much into what they've actually said.

Actually though, I should mention that my AV Receiver shows "PCM Surround 3/2.1" from standard audio fed through HDMI from my computer.
 
Last edited:
I'm a bit late, but I'll throw my 2 cent on the pile of pennies.

Unless you want to join the audiophile club, stick with something low cost (not cheap) and simple. Something like a external amp and headphones.
I have the Superlux HD668B, very good detail..maybe too much and Audio-Technica ATH-M50x, overall one of the best for the price, bass is very good.
I should have a small amp soon. CEntrance DACport Slim.
 
I'm not using my computer to do the Digital to Analogue conversion (as others in this thread have suggested). So I don't currently have a sound card installed in my computer but am passing multi-channel, non-lossy compressed audio through HDMI to my NAD AV receiver and Focal speakers+REL sub.

The analogue audio outputs on modern PC motherboards and sound cards are neither lossy or compressed.

Specs for conversion from the DAC on the latest Realtek onboard sound cards:
44.1k/48k/88.2k/96k/192k at 16/20/24 bit with SNR 110db

Specs for conversion from the DAC on much of the Focusrite range of professional audio interfaces:
44.1k/48k/88.2k/96k at 16/20/24bit with SNR 108db


As you can see the Realtek card is actually more capable than the professional equipment.


BUT, the quality of the DAC in the Realtek, while capable of producing a lossless and uncompressed sound, is unable to produce a clean sound. Cheaper DACs with introduce artifacts into the sound and do not reproduce the entire frequency spectrum evenly.

Skipping the use of cheaper DACs found in PC audio, by using HDMI or s/pdif, is a good solution for better audio quality, as long as the equipment you are running to has a quality DAC.

Also in this age, most receiver/amplifier units use digital processing, meaning that any analogue signal sent to them has to be processed by a ADC, then the digital signal is processed, than another DAC is used to send analogue signal to the power amp. By sending a digital signal to the receiver/amp, then the signal is only converted once at the amplifier stage, skipping two conversions, reducing latency and any colourisation of the sound by the DAC and ADC.


The problem we face as gamers, is that while HDMI and s/pdif is capable of sending a 5.1 signal (7.2 with HDMI I believe), this is only done when the audio is encoded in DTS, Dolby Digital, Dolby True HD etc. and these formats are only found on Movies and TV shows.

Computer games have for a long time been capable of surround sound but rely on the 6 channel analogue output from our PC cards.

If anyone knows how to get 5.1 over HDMI or s/pdif, while playing games please, please speak up, as I'd love to know how it's done.


If you have your PC set for a 192k signal, the vast majority of your audio is either being upscaled or downscaled to fit that signal size. HDMI does not act as a pass-through on PC.

You won't find ASIO outside of cheap generic cards from China, they haven't been relevant in 15 years. How long has it been since you used a real sound card? The ZxR is a "gaming" sound card.

Whenever you turn on DTS, Dolby or any other software you are processing, and formatting, the audio. The only format that you get untampered audio through PowerDVD with is FLAC, assuming that you turn off literally every audio option it offers first. In truth you're better off using any simple free FLAC player you can google, because they DON'T have the option to screw up your settings.

If your PC is set to 192k then everything is being upscaled, unless you are one of the few people that purchase 192k recordings. 48k is the limit on basically all media we receive from movies to music to games. I'd set my PC to 48k 24bit and leave it there, no point in it trying to work any harder than it has to.


ASIO has no place in computer games, or media playback, not sure it ever has, but is still very revelant in audio recording. Cubase and other DAWs still use it. If you want to record with a sound card, or a Audio Interface, best to have ASIO drivers for it.


What processing do media players make to WAVE and PCM files? Are PCM files converted to DTS or such or is the DTS format stored alongside the PCM.

Also, is FLAC becoming a distributed format?


My point, not that there isn't a better and worse sounding setup...it's just that the differences become less and less as you spend more money. Diminishing returns. The more you spend the less difference there is between each next jump. Unless you are 'into audio' and understand the 'nuances'...there is little discernible difference for the 'untrained'...

You see enough of a difference in your setup to pay thousands of quid...most people can't be bothered.

There is generally little discernible difference for the 'trained' as well.

We did a little test the other week at work, A/Bing two setups. One had a full digital signal path, the other had one DAC then ADC conversion. Between 11 of us no one could consistently guess which was which, and generally only about half would guess correctly at a time. I guessed wrong every single time.

In the end the general concensus was "The all digital path sounds better, but who cares, they both sound good."


To put it out there, I definately agree that a reasonable set of headphones are the way to go for the best sound quailty and for a reasonable price.

But I hate wearing headphones and would rather a speaker setup.

I have a Logitech Z5000 setup on my HTPC and the newer Logitech Z906 setup on my gaming PC.

Are these great speaker setups, simple answer no. The sub is wooly, there is lack of low mids, and 4k up lacks definition.

But for AUD$500 for each setup, you're not going to get any better. You can't even buy a receiver/amplifer with 6 channel input for that price, let alone the 5 speakers and a sub.

I'll stick with my setup because it's reasonably priced, simple to setup and because it's adequate.

If I was to start to improve my setup, I'll have spent $5-10k in no time, and then spend my days finding fault with my expensive setup and, having already spent a large sum and therefore wanting perfection, I'll then spend more money to fix the problems, or rather make miniscule improvements for exponentially more money.
 
Ok, wow - you just read a whole lot of stuff into what I said. I actually agree with everything you said apart from the bits where you infer that I'm saying stuff that I didn't. It always pays to check when you reply to someone whether you may actually be reading too much into what they've actually said.

Actually though, I should mention that my AV Receiver shows "PCM Surround 3/2.1" from standard audio fed through HDMI from my computer.

What speaker setup are you running, you mentioned focal speakers and a sub. Are you just running a left-right pair plus sub or do you have a center or surround speakers?

Also do you actually receive a 3/2.1 source from the PC or is simply a 2.0 source and then the AV receiver sums left and right and sends this to the sub and center speaker?


I wouldn't exactly call myself an audiophile but I do like good sound. So I'll throw in my advice too. Speakers/headphones are the most important part of your setup. It's where most of your money should go. It's also the most subjective. So you really can't take an online recommendation too seriously. If you have access to it locally go to a pro audio shop like where a sound engineer would shop, NOT an audiophile or high end place. Sound engineers are interested in what sounds best for the money. High end shops sell shiny things.

Pro audio shops will sell you good powered and some unpowered studio monitors, and for the price these will likely be better than the consumer grade equivelants.

The problem is that Pro Audio, isn't based around 5.1 setups. With the 6 channel analogue outputs found on PC soundcards, it can be relatively easy to setup surrond sound with studio monitors, but this setup will only work with PCs and won't work with DVD and BluRay players that require HDMI or s/pdif connections to AV receiver/amps.

If you plan on always using a PC for media playback then this is a good way to go and you might well find the re-sale value on the pro audio equipment better than consumer grade stuff.

If you want to use a AV receiver/amp, then you can still use unpowered studio monitors with it.
 
Back
Top Bottom