General / Off-Topic Nelson Mandela

Like I said I personally have nothing against Mandela (don't know enough about SA politics unlike everybody else here), but I'm a little puzzled that some of the unpleasant aspects of his past are simply ignored by some.

So in the interests of balance:

Bombings and civilian deaths.
and
This documentary clip.

It all seems a lot more complicated than the "he was unbelievably loved by all and possibly the worlds greatest human" stuff, but what do I know?

Anyway, does this thread really need to be in the "General" forum? "Off topic" seems a better fit.
 
Like I said I personally have nothing against Mandela (don't know enough about SA politics unlike everybody else here), but I'm a little puzzled that some of the unpleasant aspects of his past are simply ignored by some.

So in the interests of balance:

Bombings and civilian deaths.
and
This documentary clip.

It all seems a lot more complicated than the "he was unbelievably loved by all and possibly the worlds greatest human" stuff, but what do I know?

Anyway, does this thread really need to be in the "General" forum? "Off topic" seems a better fit.

He certainly had his faults... like most do... I guess becoming an icon makes you impervious to your past actions.
 
He certainly had his faults... like most do... I guess becoming an icon makes you impervious to your past actions.

He was, as they say, an "angry young man". With good reason, but that's beside the point. What he was in prison for, anybody would have gone to prison for - whether it was against a tyrannical regime or not.

However...

He spent 27 years in a forced labour camp. You could say he served his time. What mattered was how when he came out, he united the whole of South Africa, forced the fall of apartheid, and forgave those who had undoubtedly done him wrong over the years. What's more, he continued to preach forgiveness to others, at a time when after the fall of apartheid things could have become extremely unpleasant for the whites living in SA.

As you say, he was an icon of freedom. Once released, and having done all that, he was an icon of peace. I don't know if he was the world's greatest human or not - but he was human and an inspiring figure to millions.
 
I really think this thread belongs in the Off-Topic forum, tbh.
... forced the fall of apartheid
Hmm... do not forget the role of F. W. De Klerk in that. He was also a very brave man!
But enough of this... I don't come here to talk politics. <wanders off, singing an old Jimmy Cliff song>
 
Mandelas fight against apartheid was enough alone to earn him the respect of millions, he was an iconic figure. His country has held the gaze of the globe since his passing, headline news around the world. That wont be same for anyone of us present here, including you Rog.
 
I may be out on a limb, here, but I remain very disappointed at what he didn't do. He was hailed as a statesman all over the world, and was sitting on top of the moral high ground (despite his past). He was in a position to use that status and influence to help reform all of Africa, not just South Africa. Yet he simply ignored Mugabe and similar (though perhaps not as bad) despots elsewhere. He could have improved the lot of many more Africans, but chose not to.

I'm by no means an expert on this stuff, but my understanding is that Mugabe and Mandella both started out fighting the good fight. They diverged when Mugabe decided he could just do a little more good if he clung on to power that bit longer, while Mandella realised where a road paved with good intentions leads to. Using his power would have only have made Mandella the next Mugabe.
 
Like I said I personally have nothing against Mandela (don't know enough about SA politics unlike everybody else here), but I'm a little puzzled that some of the unpleasant aspects of his past are simply ignored by some.

So in the interests of balance:

Bombings and civilian deaths.
and
This documentary clip.

It all seems a lot more complicated than the "he was unbelievably loved by all and possibly the worlds greatest human" stuff, but what do I know?

Anyway, does this thread really need to be in the "General" forum? "Off topic" seems a better fit.

But that is what I explained. No man is perfect.

On tv here they keep showing this little clip where Mandela wonders what good it would do to protest peacefully against the powers that with ever increasing violence attack peaceful demonstrators. At some point peaceful resistance just isn't going to help.

It was then he decided to have a armed branch of the ANC apparently.

But did you know that Mother Teresa, considered a saint by hundreds of millions of people, had an organization that has hundreds of millions of dollars in the bank. This is money from donations, inheritances that were donated to her organization and all sort of gifts.

And that this organization pays no taxes. And that despite all this money, she went around in Calcutta pleading for the poor but spending little. And that she told dying or very sick people that 'pain was a blessing from the Lord'', in other words, instead of using a few busy bugs for pain medication she let poor people die in agony.

And so my point is, all hero's have a dark side, that perhaps they are blind to themselves but that others can see. Of course, no one dared go against Mother Teresa.... I mean if you wanted to have all your credibility down the drain you kept you mouth shut.

No person is perfect. But with all her religious stupidity and nonsense, I guess overall she did make a good case to helping the most poor.

And I am sure that for every 'hero' we can list, there is a dark side to be discerned.
 
By the time MK had killed anyone, Mandela had already been in prison for over a decade. He wasn't arrested for killing people, he was arrested because he was a black man who had the sheer audacity to be politically active, to campaign for enfranchisement and equality.

The ANC started out non-violent. MK was only set up after the government massacred protesters. They were intended to commit acts of sabotage, not explicitly to kill people.

The SA government killed more people in a single day of cracking down on protest than MK did in their subsequent 30 years of operations.

Make up your owns minds.

P.S. Free Mandela.
 
No offence to people but this thread seems to have changed in to a political debate which has no place in a forum regarding Elite.

It should be in the off topics section of the Frontier forums.
 
Extreme irritation swept over me as I started to listen to this. All I heard was very long pauses, a few words, long pauses.

I cannot listen to that ****e. If you have, for crying out softly, a talkradio recording and you cannot organize your thoughts so that there is actually something to listen to without 20 second pauses, then you are not supposed to do it.

I am sitting there, hurry the **** up idiot, if you have something to say. And I am like, ****in' useless, cancel, bye moron!



Patience is a virtue in the microwave age.

Robby suffered a stroke in 2012 and has not been quite as fluid in his speaking ever since. If you want the polish of the BBC or broadcast television then look elsewhere. You won't find post stroke victims hosting those programs either.
 
I heard this morning that N. Mandela died.

A great man, for many reasons.

I would ask Frontier Developments if they would name a world after him to honor his life and achievements.

Thank you.


Id rather hope the will not do the above... we cannot forget that he also did indirectly kill alot of innocent people also women and children in the terrorist movement he also was involved with, urging ppl to bomb targets and so forth. So good yeah maybe in some ways, but also very bad. My 2 pecs...
 
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