Nerf crowd about to ruin the game again

[deMangler]

I think a good idea will be to let all NPCs stack scbs and use them. Then we will see how many people still think they are a great idea when each pve kill takes 20 mins and it is impossible to win anymore than 1 on 1.

Agree. As a baseline give NPC's what players have and balance it from there. Otherwise is is one band-aid balance fix after another. Also players cannot make informed assumptions about NPC's if the rules are different. The infinite ammo for NPC's is a good example.
FD's current approach to this aspect of the game appears to be misguided and inconsistent.

 

[hanks01]

The game is an arcade style game, which is made obvious by the "honk" and big blue font for your kills/credits/bonds or whatever. It's made obvious by the big yellow circles in space to indicate orbits and targets and such.

Whilst I don't disagree with the rest of your post if you post nonsense like this then it undermines it. If you want to compare it to arcade style games then go and play Daytona, House of the Dead or Time Crisis and come back to us to see if your comparison holds true.

 

[Darkphoenix]

Okay, now caught up on 17 pages.....all I will say regarding this is my position hasn't changed since the last thread regarding this issue that I posted in. SCB's are plainly and simply unbalancing and overpowered, they imo should be limited to 1 per ship like a shield generator or fuel scoop. They are a crutch for some and I think that the ones most vocal about keeping the status quo are the ones that probably have multiples equipped in almost every ship they own. PvP should not come down to he who has the most batteries has the best chance (overwhelming advantage) of being the victor in the outcome. Small ships should not be able to go toe to toe with much larger ships simply because they get shield cell batteries and no ships should be able to take on entire groups of superior ships without a second thought because they have the magic instant shield recharge module in multiples and the ships they are engaging do not. PvP should not be decided by he whom has more batteries wins or 10 minute+ slugfests because both ships have multiple batteries.

 

[mossfoot]

Okay, now caught up on 17 pages.....all I will say regarding this is my position hasn't changed since the last thread regarding this issue that I posted in. SCB's are plainly and simply unbalancing and overpowered, they imo should be limited to 1 per ship like a shield generator or fuel scoop. They are a crutch for some and I think that the ones most vocal about keeping the status quo are the ones that probably have multiples equipped in almost every ship they own. PvP should not come down to he who has the most batteries has the best chance (overwhelming advantage) of being the victor in the outcome. Small ships should not be able to go toe to toe with much larger ships simply because they get shield cell batteries and no ships should be able to take on entire groups of superior ships without a second thought because they have the magic instant shield recharge module in multiples and the ships they are engaging do not. PvP should not be decided by he whom has more batteries wins or 10 minute+ slugfests because both ships have multiple batteries.

Already repped you so take a virtual +1 here.

 

[Ralph Vargr]

Dear FD,

Something needs to change, big time, to save us PvEers from the PvPers.

Fixed that for you.

 

[Crash1099]

I disagree with shield cells being a problem. This game is really a pve type of game it is not pvp. People that play solo have a right to stick as many shield cell banks on there big ship that they want. No small ship should win a battle against a big ship without being in a wing. Big ships can carry a lot of guns and shield cell banks.

You want shield cell banks balanced add more heat so you have to use heat sinks when using it.

 

[Defacto]

Let me change the module in your statement and see if your point still holds true:

What I'm trying to get at, if the only difference between you being vaporized in five seconds and escaping with half of your modules intact, is replacing a chaff launcher with a heat sink launcher, then maybe, just maybe, there is a prolem with how that heat sink launcher interacts with the game.

You could add a number of things in there, like an extra fuel tank or a module repair kit (or whatever that repair module is called) and it would do the same thing.

The entire purpose of adding battle gear is to survive a battle. You add that SCB and you can not carry that 8 tons of commodities. That's the trade off. Meanwhile you're flying around with an SCB that you only use two or three times before it's useless.

- - - Updated - - -


The game is an arcade style game, which is made obvious by the "honk" and big blue font for your kills/credits/bonds or whatever. It's made obvious by the big yellow circles in space to indicate orbits and targets and such. It's not a flight sim or a battle sim or any other sim. It's a game designed and implemented as such, now with even a board game aspect to it as well. The problem is players want to now make it into a space battle sim for hardened players who use Warthogs and game chairs and Occulus Rift and such. I'm all for that, but it's currently built as an arcade style video game. As such things like cell banks are just the little mushrooms Mario gets to energize himself up with.

What do you mean? If you escape with half of your modules intact, you will not escape, because the first module that stops being intact is the power plant.
And I don't think that fitting a heat sink launcher ever would allow you to escape where you would not with a chaff launcher. Not reliably at least. I don't think this comparison works in the case you mentioned.

Don't bother with arcade vs hardcore. This is not what the discussion is about. SCB's makes the game less good. They are bad, because they do not work well in the game.

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

SCBs make PvE so boring... They're far from the definition of playing a critical role in it, they're superfluous.

 

[Renegade Roach]

I disagree with shield cells being a problem. This game is really a pve type of game it is not pvp. People that play solo have a right to stick as many shield cell banks on there big ship that they want. No small ship should win a battle against a big ship without being in a wing. Big ships can carry a lot of guns and shield cell banks.

You want shield cell banks balanced add more heat so you have to use heat sinks when using it.

No, it's both pve and pvp, claiming otherwise is misguided. People that play solo (or open) don't have the 'right' to anything, this is an argument about balance which affects both pve and pvp, solo and open. And yes, a small ship should be able to win against a big ship if a) small ship is well fitted and well piloted, b) big ship is poorly fitted and/or poorly piloted. Anyway, currently it's scb that give small ships more of a chance, so your point doesn't exactly hold together.

 

[hanks01]

No, it's both pve and pvp, claiming otherwise is misguided. People that play solo (or open) don't have the 'right' to anything, this is an argument about balance which affects both pve and pvp, solo and open. And yes, a small ship should be able to win against a big ship if a) small ship is well fitted and well piloted, b) big ship is poorly fitted and/or poorly piloted. Anyway, currently it's scb that give small ships more of a chance, so your point doesn't exactly hold together.

I agree that a small well fitted ship should indeed stand a chance against a large well fitted ship. In fact my Vulture has seen off trade equipped Pythons and Dropships quite satisfactorily... althought they've been decent satisfying fights dealing with shield sapping turrets and the occasional head on moments.... this wasn't using SCBs though.

In general I think SCBs only really give "I win" buttons to a small selection of ships yet so few posts seem to acknowledge this and ask for an across the board nerf. All that really needs to be done it to adjust them for the ships that they are vastly over-powered for.

 

[ROSS-128]

No, it's both pve and pvp, claiming otherwise is misguided. People that play solo (or open) don't have the 'right' to anything, this is an argument about balance which affects both pve and pvp, solo and open. And yes, a small ship should be able to win against a big ship if a) small ship is well fitted and well piloted, b) big ship is poorly fitted and/or poorly piloted. Anyway, currently it's scb that give small ships more of a chance, so your point doesn't exactly hold together.

The bigger ship can equip bigger SCBs than the small ship which hold more charges, restore more shield HP per charge, it can mount more of them, and has more spare power to run them with. How is this helping small ships again?

Really though the main problems seem to be that it can be stacked too much, and each use restores way too much health. The result is that equipping an SCB ends up being as if you equipped three or four shield generators. 400 shield HP per charge is a little ridiculous when many ships' entire shield capacity is in the 200-500 range (before boosters at least).

 

[mossfoot]

Really though the main problems seem to be that it can be stacked too much, and each use restores way too much health. The result is that equipping an SCB ends up being as if you equipped three or four shield generators. 400 shield HP per charge is a little ridiculous when many ships' entire shield capacity is in the 200-500 range (before boosters at least).

This. And given you tend to have an average of 4 in a single bank, that's 1600 extra HP right there. You're more or less destroying two complete ships before you even get to touch the hull.

 

[Marc Alexander]

I like to think that the 'Nerf Crowd' is actually the work of one man - Tim the Enchanter.

Or the Nerfinator, as he is now known.

Spoiler

[video=youtube;aZJZK6rzjns]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZJZK6rzjns[/video]

 

[Spog]

If you think FD knee jerks, don't. They are smart enough to evaluate their own design case by case, judging by actual scenarios.

Any hard evidence for that, or just wishful thinking?

 

[Marra Morgan]

Now they're talking about killing SCBs

Who's they?

 

[Erik the Viking]

Who's they?

People in the Forum.

 

[Pew]

Dear FD,

I'm getting really tired of this.

Now they're talking about killing SCBs, and those are a critical part of PvE. The momentum is very strong, those against the nerf mostly seem to be keeping quiet, and you've shown time and time again that you're very... democratic; you seem to go with what you hear the most. I'm mostly satisfied with the way the game is now, but I'm tired of the mechanics being sliced away by bits and pieces in ways that badly damage the experience because people who are strictly here to duel other players make demands based on the way they want things to go while they fight each other. If you kill SCBs, I will NOT be satisfied at all.

I'm starting to honestly think that we're not going to be able to combine PvP and PvE successfully in the main game. Something needs to change, big time, to save us PvEers from the nerfs you keep imposing on us at the behest of the PvPers.

We agree

 

[Frenotx]

SCBs don't need a nerf, or a buff, our to be removed; they need to be redesigned. I'm of the opinion that the current implementation just can't be effectively balanced- it will either always be to strong and / or cheesy, or not strong enough to be viable. Instead of trying to tweak the SCBs we have now, I suggest FDev consider reworking then entirely. This link explains the specifics of how I'd like to see them work: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=164381

 

[Sidey]

Ahhhh SCB's

If I may, Id like to link to a small video which I recorded back when we were in alpha. Whilst of course things have changed since then, the general tactics if I were flying in this situation would be similar. The relevant part is from 4mins onward where in the Sidewinder I engage a wing of 4 ships. Gimballed lasers made this scenario rather easy, but nevertheless I needed to be careful and think about what I was doing.

[video=youtube;lG_htzFBsTA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lG_htzFBsTA[/video]

If I were to do the exact same scenario above but this time with shield cells fitted, all id need to do is basically just target each ship one by one and shoot them to pieces individually. No tactics, no thinking, no strafe drive or FA-off stuff, nothing. Just turn around and shoot till they die. Pick a new target repeat, and spam some shield cells.

Personally I think they should never have been introduced to the game. That being said, I just cant see FD removing them now. Perhaps get rid of all the large module shield cells. Have them only in size 1 and 2 variants making them useful for the very small ships (eagle, sidewinder, hauler etc) so that the small ships arent vaporised quite as quickly against a larger one thus giving a slightly longer engagement curve. Also makes them useful while players are new and learning the ropes, but for any serious PvP or PvE id remove them. There shouldnt be the safety net, its easy enough to survive as it is imo.

EDIT: changed some stuff.

 

[Mr_Blastman]

LOL OP wants to ban PvP. Hilarious. Hello Kitty™ Online is That way ------------->

As for SCBs getting nerfed, yes! Please! They always were a crutch. Stacking SCBs is not fun.