Nerf idea for Soontill relics (Powerplay)

As most players involved in powerplay know, soontill relics are VERY powerfull tool for generating merits (and more importantly control points). I'm talking about around 15k merits PER TRIP. This alone causes every other activity to be ineffective when compered to trading relics. It's not issue of the game itself because supply works as intended but the issue lies in too high supply and price to merit ratio. Whole thing creates huge disadvantage for smaller powerplay figures and those without bonus. also makes 50 new acquisition (not a joke) weekly a casual thing instead of big event, which just feel wrong.

That's why i would like to suggest few ways to nerf relics without making trading them obsolete
(because i think relics are not bad themself but heavly unbalanced right now)

Idea 1: Supply min-max cap for rares

This idea revolves around creating cap on rares, For this example i'll use soontill relics (numbers might not be accurate but it doesnt matter that much for this example). currently, defult supply is 40, boom is around 80-120, however when civil liberty starts supply skyrocket to 400-600 ,which is why relics are so overpowered. So to create cap that is both rewarding (for doing bgs activieties and in powerplay) cap has to be high but not too high. I suggest max cap to be around 200, because it seems like both good amount to trade for merits and enough to engage in bgs work to proc states needed for it

Idea 2: Make all rares have fixed supply

it's simillar to idea 1 but it's about setting fixed supply for rares regardless what it is instead just changing cap. It means that rare X would have the same supply as rare Y. for amounts i would make default to be 40 and it would increase 80 for every positive state (boom, civil liberty, etc.) and go down by 10 every negative (bust, civil unrest, etc.) It would work just as 200 cap does but every rare would benefit for this change.

Idea 3: Make rares give the same amount of merits regardless of price (NOT IDEAL ALONE but makes other rares viable, works good only if combined with idea 1 or 2)
This idea is not ideal alone but as i wrote it's IMO great idea when combined because it would make other systems more bgs active, still rewarding AND MOST IMPORTANT other rares would get any purpose in powerplay other than just looking cool (sorry fdev but that's harsh truth) (and of course merits would get bonus from powerplay ethos)

Bonus:
-make rares undermining activity

(i don't have to explain this)

That's pretty much everything i could think to contribute to fix this balanse issue, However if you (the person reading this) have anything that could contibute to the list please comnent it and i might add it here ;). Thank you for reading it all <3
 
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I noticed that something was changed too, HOWEVER it's still doesn't fix the issue of oversupply (or op merit gain)
 
It is not only the quantity, it's the price too... they should raise prices for some rares offered in high quantities to balance it.

On the other side, undermining resources are too few and undermining (without data) is not rewarding at all.
 
It is not only the quantity, it's the price too... they should raise prices for some rares offered in high quantities to balance it.

On the other side, undermining resources are too few and undermining (without data) is not rewarding at all.
I fully agree with you! especially considering how fdev is pushing powerplay into more undermining / pvp oriented (by recent powerplay update) and i've mentioned in my post that price (or price to merit ratio as i called it) is also the issue but it's even more multiplied by oversupply that is happening. i'll asume you agree for me to add your suggestion to the list because i agree that undermining activities could use some new activieties
 
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Idea 3: Make rares give the same amount of merits regardless of price
This has the potential issue that a lot of the pricing comes from the distance-based component, so making them price-independent means that a good rares supplier becomes most useful for the immediately surrounding systems, which is the opposite to how rares are supposed to work.

I think for balancing rares against each other the most interesting option is:
- adjust all rares to be about the same basic price and quantity
- adjust the basic quantity to be about 10t (i.e. actually rare) but give a lot more merits per tonne
- make the effect of positive BGS cap out at double/triple baseline
so that it goes back to the puzzle being about "what cluster of rares can you efficiently sweep up" probably using a medium or even small ship optimised for jump range, rather than "how quickly can you run A-B loops in a freighter".

But that doesn't address the balance of rares against every other method at all, of course.

also makes 50 new acquisition (not a joke) weekly a casual thing instead of big event, which just feel wrong.
Is that a problem in itself? There are a bit over 12,000 Powerplay systems. 200ish new Acquisitions as happened last week is about 1.6% of the total. If Powerplay changing by more than 1% a week is a "big event" then I think the problem is that everything is tuned to require too many points for the number of people involved.

For comparison, with no "Soontill Relics" special equivalent, just things generally moving along, the Colonisation process is adding about 1500 new systems each week. If Powerplay is only managing 200-300 new systems in a highly boosted week relying on one extremely specific method, that hardly seems too fast.

Soontill Relics being so much better than absolutely every other Acquisition method in Powerplay, yes, absolutely, that's a problem ... but the problem is that the other Acquisition methods (and all the Undermining methods, for that matter) are far too weak.
 
This has the potential issue that a lot of the pricing comes from the distance-based component, so making them price-independent means that a good rares supplier becomes most useful for the immediately surrounding systems, which is the opposite to how rares are supposed to work.
I know that rares scale with distance but my overall idea was to make for example base would be 10 merits per ton (or more) and THEN they would scale with distance and give bonus if power ethos say so rather than current way of price+distance= x amount of merits which isn't bad however makes most rares useless (cause they are food type). Your suggestions sound similar to mine excluding "making rares rare" and i agree it would be much more interesting but it would also require much more bgs work to be made by power communities which might be hard to achieve in both long and short term (not imposible tho) (i should mention in the post that it would still scale with distance but i didn't, my bad sorry)
Is that a problem in itself? There are a bit over 12,000 Powerplay systems. 200ish new Acquisitions as happened last week is about 1.6% of the total. If Powerplay changing by more than 1% a week is a "big event" then I think the problem is that everything is tuned to require too many points for the number of people involved.
Of course not! My point is just like yours that soontill relics are the ONLY method for achiving that numbers (and maybe very coordinated comunity event but that's specific) and that's why it's an issue. espesially that some power figures get bonus for rares and some don't which puts them in disadvantage. that's why my post isn't about "how relics are bad and needs to be nerfed" but more of a "how to balance system to be more fair for everyone INCLUDING those powers with merit bonus from rare trades". and IMO power ethos should be more important than now because only thing that is balanced around it is bounty hunting which is not worth it unless you are in power focused on combat (at least that's the only thing that i think is balanced some might say otherwise)
 
I mean, other rares could use a buff, sure. But the real trick is  abusing efficient manipulation of the BGS so that other rares get mulipliers so they, too, can have insane numbers hauled.
 
I agree that they should be adjusted. It's never good if one activity is miles ahead the others, especially in a PvP-ish setting.

And in this case it begs the question how rare are those relics really, if you can get 600 tons at once.
 
I mean, other rares could use a buff, sure. But the real trick is  abusing efficient manipulation of the BGS so that other rares get mulipliers so they, too, can have insane numbers hauled.
Not really.

- Soontill Relics are expensive for a rare, so even if you did get the allocation of (say) Altairian Skin up to 600t, you'd still only be getting a tenth of the merits that way
- not all rare allocations are affected equally by BGS states - Altair is in the same Boom + Civil Liberty + Expansion combination as Ngurii, but the allocation of Altairian Skin is 95t not 600t
- doesn't address at all the imbalance between rares and every other Powerplay method (most of which have more restrictions on use than rares, too)
 
I mean, other rares could use a buff, sure. But the real trick is  abusing efficient manipulation of the BGS so that other rares get mulipliers so they, too, can have insane numbers hauled.
Yes BGS manipulation is the trick for making soontill relics go crazy, however the issue is just as CMDR Ian Doncaster wrote
  • Soontill Relics are expensive for a rare, so even if you did get the allocation of (say) Altairian Skin up to 600t, you'd still only be getting a tenth of the merits that way
  • not all rare allocations are affected equally by BGS states - Altair is in the same Boom + Civil Liberty + Expansion combination as Ngurii, but the allocation of Altairian Skin is 95t not 600t
  • doesn't address at all the imbalance between rares and every other Powerplay method (most of which have more restrictions on use than rares, too)
And it's also the issue of other powers (ex. EM, LYR) having merit bonuses for rare trades which grant them even more advantage which makes it so unbalanced ,not sure how many merit this bonus grant but guessing that its at least above 10% makes (as example) 10k merit from trade to 11k which may not sound so terrible but that 1k would give additional 250/500 control points which becomes a problem. Also other powerplay activieties generate so little merits or require a lot of time to get there that relics are becoming "get rich scheme" where some just do few relics run and call it a day for whole powerplay system (because they reach rank 100 in max few hours).
 
that's even worse case and it's probably real value😔
It is, I wasn't kidding.

Most of the time it doesn't give that much of an advantage since every power have their own bonus activities to counter their opponent's bonus activities. But Soontil relics are an anomaly because of their higher than normal supply.

So when the stars align, you get situations like this.
 
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They might get more than nerfed. Considering what they are -- relics, and not a manufactured good or agri product -- logically they will eventually run out.
 
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