Release Neutron Highway long range route planner

[Spansh]

The map doesn't really work with my chrome:
http://i.imgur.com/xQs5C2C.png

Even when I force it to be a reasonable size it doesn't react to any pan/rotate/zoom inputs and the toggle buttons, while changing state, don't do anything.

Hmm, I was testing with chrome (the map does appear to be a little tempremental though, you could send feedback to biobob who is the guy who wrote it). Try the new "show route" feature, which uses the map in a clearer form, see if it works there.

edit: also is it intentional that replotting a part of a larger route with the same efficiency may result in a different sub route?
ah nvm ... I think I understand why that happens

aaand a request for the plotter itself:

I really love that it is more compact now, but lines are a bit hard to tell apart
alternate highlighting like this would help a lot:
http://i.imgur.com/nquKVY2.png
also possibly right aligning the check boxes

That used to be in, not sure why it went away, fixed

 

[Mengy]

I have now added a display of known neutron stars (thanks to Biobob for his ED javascript galaxy display) and also a few other features. It's going to take a little longer to get routing working with non main neutron stars but it is still in progress.

Wow, that's really awesome!!!! And the map works just fine for me in chrome, I'm not having any issues that I can notice at all with it. Great work, this is a tremendously useful tool!

I see lots of regions in the galaxy where we need more neutrons mapped out, I think I hear an expedition calling my name...

 

[YinYin]

Aw, back to less compact list - still better that way.

The show route unfortunately has the same issue, posted about it in biobobs thread.

At least I can view routes in different browsers now

 

[Biobob]

Hi Spansh,
I just answer to YinYin post on my thread about his issues on Chrome.
I've post a CSS fix on my thread (I got a scrollbar when resizing the window under 1000px with):
for the container width, there is a "vh" unit, it should be a "vw" unit (or maybe just 100% + a min-height to avoid compatibility issues with viewport sizing)
(more detail on my thread).

NB: Nice to see the 3D map on your tool

 

[Spansh]

Hi Spansh,
I just answer to YinYin post on my thread about his issues on Chrome.
I've post a CSS fix on my thread (I got a scrollbar when resizing the window under 1000px with):
for the container width, there is a "vh" unit, it should be a "vw" unit (or maybe just 100% + a min-height to avoid compatibility issues with viewport sizing)
(more detail on my thread).

NB: Nice to see the 3D map on your tool

I've had a look and made "some" changes but as i said in my post on your thread the height appears to cause problems. Thanks again for creating the map, it made it really easy to integrate with and looks very nice.

I have also upgraded the server substantially, all plots should be substantially faster now especially longer plots into less well known areas of the galaxy. For example Sol to Beagle Point with a 45LY range now only takes 10-15 seconds (a 30 LY range takes substantially longer). However it will also run up to 10 plots (instead of 2) in parallel now so if someone is running a more intensive plot it won't affect other people as much.

 

[irtuk]

+Rep. Thats just about the most awesome thing ever. beautiful work man.

 

[zz9pa]

Great tool - i've been using it for my return trip from Sag-A..

Here's how i've been using it when its not neutron star->neutron star->neutron star -

Arrive at neutron star
Go to the galmap
Plot route to next neutron star
Pick 4th star and select (not route)
Supercharge fsd
Jump
Proceed to next netron star and repeat (no need to got to galmap and replot)

This avoids a trip to the galmap to replot- and also gets the "nearly" best range on the stars after the jump too.

 

[KRONFROMGALVATRON]

Great tool, thanks Spanish!

 

[andrak]

This is a great tool. Would it be possible to offer a dark skin version of the website? It would be much preferable on a second monitor while flying.

 

[Spansh]

This is a great tool. Would it be possible to offer a dark skin version of the website? It would be much preferable on a second monitor while flying.

I can certainly look at doing that.... and now done


Edit: Now implemented that

 

[gammadraconis]

Very awesome tool, thank you for putting in the effort. I want to make one suggestion, if it is not already on your thread ( and I missed it). On the main page, there is a warning to make sure you can get out of a system you jump in to. But maybe you can advise taking maintenance modules and materials for an FSD injection on that page as well. The maintenance module should be mandatory and the injection is in case of a miscalculation.

This is from experience. The tool had me plot a neutron jump to a certain system, the next jump is a non boosted jump of 33.1 ly using 2 regular jumps. Problem is... the NEAREST star other than the neutron is 34ly, so there is only one jump available! I can only jump 32ly! In this case, an FSD injection would help. It will boost my next jump 25%. Injection requirements and materials are in the "synthesis" tab under "inventory", no cargo space needed.

Secondary note: many of the neutron stars that this wonderful tool provides a route to, have stars IN their own system that you can fuel scoop! Great job plotting.

Cheers

 

[CmdrJacks]

Thanks for this tool. I have an odd route which looks like it's going wrong:

http://www.spansh.co.uk/?from=Boewn...082-E483-11E6-AD40-C48C2A4035C8&efficiency=75

It goes from an unknown plot at 1.9k from destination to 13k from destination. It looks like lack of data, so I'll be mapping the rest of my route manually and updating EDSM.

 

[gammadraconis]

Thanks for this tool. I have an odd route which looks like it's going wrong:

http://www.spansh.co.uk/?from=Boewn...082-E483-11E6-AD40-C48C2A4035C8&efficiency=75

It goes from an unknown plot at 1.9k from destination to 13k from destination. It looks like lack of data, so I'll be mapping the rest of my route manually and updating EDSM.

Yeah sometimes that can happen. Play with the % amount. Higher percent can sometimes mean more jumps but shorter jumps. It may help.

 

[gammadraconis]

Thanks for this tool. I have an odd route which looks like it's going wrong:

http://www.spansh.co.uk/?from=Boewn...082-E483-11E6-AD40-C48C2A4035C8&efficiency=75

It goes from an unknown plot at 1.9k from destination to 13k from destination. It looks like lack of data, so I'll be mapping the rest of my route manually and updating EDSM.

Sometimes this happens. Try playing around with the % amount. Higher % can lead to more jumps, but smaller jumps.

 

[pipo zelvelder]

Short story,

1. Put system into the galaxy map in game (PC users can click the "Copy" button and paste it)
2. Click plot
3. Jump until you get to the system
4. If the system is a neutron star, supercharge your FSD
5. Take the next system on the list and go to 1

Probably a very noob question, but i am going for the longer jumps now and discovered this thread just now. What do you mean by "supercharge" your FSD? And how do neutron stars work (How can you shorten jumps by it?)

Tested your tool and it is great for me! The passenger mission are more easier and more efficient plannable now. But still wonder about the Neutron stars, although it does not seem te shorten the routes i am planning so far.

 

[Spansh]

Probably a very noob question, but i am going for the longer jumps now and discovered this thread just now. What do you mean by "supercharge" your FSD? And how do neutron stars work (How can you shorten jumps by it?)

Tested your tool and it is great for me! The passenger mission are more easier and more efficient plannable now. But still wonder about the Neutron stars, although it does not seem te shorten the routes i am planning so far.

This video shows you how to supercharge your FSD https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-zIyXJnlIY

Once you have done that you will be able to jump 4x your jump range for a single jump (hence the neutron star boosts). it will require replotting for that jump via the galaxy map but you'll see more about that when you experiment with it

 

[Cross]

This is likely due to the neutrons not being the main star, I'm working on allowing neutrons within x distance of the main star which I will add soon. So long as you keep submitting these kind of things to the elite dangerous data network (via EDDiscovery or EDMC or others) then once I have finished this feature they will automatically start appearing in plotted routes.

Hah, I just came here to inquire if the router included systems with secondary neutron stars; nice to know it's on the 'to-do' list.

Also, hats off to you for setting up the Neutron Highway! [up]

 

[Baton]

I use spansh for a while to get around quickly, I must say it is getting very effective, I made it from bubble to conflux in 4 hours in 43 ly Asp.

I am impressed - kudos to the author and lots of reps

2/20/2017 7:30:53 PM Jump to HIP 30045 42.43 ly
2/20/2017 11:38:47 PM Jump to Pru Aescs TY-J a64-1 145.02 ly t Conflux Alpha base

 

[Peuwi]

Hello !

This tool is really great !

But after trying it, I realized the algorithm seems not the most efficient possible.
1) the efficiency parameter is a good idea, but ineffective : it doesnt matter if the target is far for the straight line, as long as it is the nearest possible target from the destination. Assuming this concept, the optimal solution could even be a spiral going behind the destination, or an equilateral triangle. I would suggest removing entirely this parameter.

2) some given neutron star can be quite ineffective to use, or even with negative effect, due to lost jump range to get them, and wrong direction (low progress toward destination) Theses results should be entirely filtered. Parameters offered to users should be instead : cost of galaxy map use, and cost of neutron star scooping. Theses cost can either be with ly, percentage (percentage of range in ly then), or seconds (giving 60s for 1 standard jump). Then, as each neutron star add 1 scoop and 1 or 2 galaxy map use, you can determine wether a neutron star can be kept or not.
Exemple :
- with a range of 50ly, the neutron boost give +150ly. (150ly+50ly = 200ly)
- if this star need an underrange jump of 160ly to reach it, we lose 40ly compared to any standard star. (-40ly lost)
- if this star only give a progress of 90ly toward the destination (the current remaining distance is 10kly, and is 9,910ly for the neutron star), that's again 70ly lost due to wrong direction.
- so, the neutron will offer only a +40ly boost remaining once you took account for bad star position. (I made a simulation to colonia with 25%, and got a lot of stars with less than +40ly progress)
- then, we take account for what the user considered as neutron star and galaxy map use :
* the user say that he take only 10s in account for the neutron scooping, because he is quite good at it, and add no additionnal repair risk. It correspond to a 10/60*50ly cost. 8,33ly
* the user also say it cost him 20s each time he use galaxy map, considering the alt-tab on windows to copy past, etc. It correspond to a 16,6 ly cost. And we know he wont be able to reach a neutron start right after, so it's a second galaxy map used only to use the jump : 8,33 + 16,6 x2 = 41,66 ly cost.
- the total gain for this neutron star would be -1,66 ly, meaning using this star would be less effective rather than direct jump, so, we can ignore it.

The algorithm turns out to be the way of ordering potential neutron star using this calculation.

3) (sorry), the tool could ask for the fuel cargo, and offer some normal star to refuel before getting empty tank. (but it have to be done after )

-> Are you interested for my help to get the algorithm with such constraints ?

Here is an example of my analysis : View attachment ED - Neutron Path.xls
(the file is excel 2016, as I'm using the NUMBERVALUE() function to parse english numbers)

 

[Spansh]

Hello !

This tool is really great !

But after trying it, I realized the algorithm seems not the most efficient possible.
1) the efficiency parameter is a good idea, but ineffective : it doesnt matter if the target is far for the straight line, as long as it is the nearest possible target from the destination. Assuming this concept, the optimal solution could even be a spiral going behind the destination, or an equilateral triangle. I would suggest removing entirely this parameter.

2) some given neutron star can be quite ineffective to use, or even with negative effect, due to lost jump range to get them, and wrong direction (low progress toward destination) Theses results should be entirely filtered. Parameters offered to users should be instead : cost of galaxy map use, and cost of neutron star scooping. Theses cost can either be with ly, percentage (percentage of range in ly then), or seconds (giving 60s for 1 standard jump). Then, as each neutron star add 1 scoop and 1 or 2 galaxy map use, you can determine wether a neutron star can be kept or not.
Exemple :
- with a range of 50ly, the neutron boost give +150ly. (150ly+50ly = 200ly)
- if this star need an underrange jump of 160ly to reach it, we lose 40ly compared to any standard star. (-40ly lost)
- if this star only give a progress of 90ly toward the destination (the current remaining distance is 10kly, and is 9,910ly for the neutron star), that's again 70ly lost due to wrong direction.
- so, the neutron will offer only a +40ly boost remaining once you took account for bad star position. (I made a simulation to colonia with 25%, and got a lot of stars with less than +40ly progress)
- then, we take account for what the user considered as neutron star and galaxy map use :
* the user say that he take only 10s in account for the neutron scooping, because he is quite good at it, and add no additionnal repair risk. It correspond to a 10/60*50ly cost. 8,33ly
* the user also say it cost him 20s each time he use galaxy map, considering the alt-tab on windows to copy past, etc. It correspond to a 16,6 ly cost. And we know he wont be able to reach a neutron start right after, so it's a second galaxy map used only to use the jump : 8,33 + 16,6 x2 = 41,66 ly cost.
- the total gain for this neutron star would be -1,66 ly, meaning using this star would be less effective rather than direct jump, so, we can ignore it.

The algorithm turns out to be the way of ordering potential neutron star using this calculation.

3) (sorry), the tool could ask for the fuel cargo, and offer some normal star to refuel before getting empty tank. (but it have to be done after )

-> Are you interested for my help to get the algorithm with such constraints ?

Here is an example of my analysis : View attachment 115492
(the file is excel 2016, as I'm using the NUMBERVALUE() function to parse english numbers)

You're right, it's not exactly the most efficient possible however it is pretty close and it also has to be done close to realtime (I could perform much more efficient calculations if 1. We had more exact data of the whole galaxy 2. Everyone had the same jump range). Lets just say this isn't the first algorithm I tried (I have 4-5 some of which will work as more information gets discovered).

You're wrong about the efficiency parameter, it directly controls how far away from the direct route it will travel, it is mostly not required on very well travelled routed (for instance Sol to Colonia or Sol to Sagitarrius A*), however on much lesser travelled routes (where we have much less information, checking https://www.spansh.co.uk/map.html will show you how little of the galaxy we have mapped) it may be more optimal to travel off the direct route. I would suggest that the default value for efficiency should be changed to be roughly 60% which (from experience) seems to be roughly the best. With regards to your second point, this is exactly why the efficiency parameter is there, to control how far it will travel to get to a neutron star. Each neutron star is picked to be closer to the destination that you currently are (it will never take you further away). So lets say you used an effiency of 25% (which is the absolute lowest level where you will break even on the star). Then for every 100LY you travel to a neutron star you will get at least 25LY closer to your final destination (hopefully much better but I also don't recommend using 25% efficiency either). I don't take into account time on the galaxy map, but it's up to the user if they feel that the time they take costs them more than they save.

On your third point, yes I could offer routes towards normal stars however again, we miss a lot of systems from the galaxy map so it's almost always better to manually choose a star closest you can refuel from as a hop before the next neutron star. I am considering adding some rough fuel calculations to show where you will likely need to refuel but without knowing exactly which jumps are taken I don't know how much fuel will be used.