Neutron star plume dropout?

[ibmalone]

Has anyone else experienced this? I didn't realise it could happen. Scooping a neutron star (17 jumps from Sag A* of course...), I apparently stayed a bit too long in the plume (seemed like a second or two after getting the boost), heading away from the star, and suddenly got dropped out. Never heard of that happening; all the stories I see are about hitting the exclusion zone. Sadly FSD and/or power plant had taken too much of a whack and couldn't get back into supercruise. Tried every trick: shutting down everything other than thrusters, FSD and life support, seeing if AFMU could fix up the FSD (could only just about hold integrity steady), rebooting systems.

Oh well, guess I wont be stopping to scan anything on the repeat attempt

 

[khaos526]

Has anyone else experienced this? I didn't realise it could happen. Scooping a neutron star (17 jumps from Sag A* of course...), I apparently stayed a bit too long in the plume (seemed like a second or two after getting the boost), heading away from the star, and suddenly got dropped out. Never heard of that happening; all the stories I see are about hitting the exclusion zone. Sadly FSD and/or power plant had taken too much of a whack and couldn't get back into supercruise. Tried every trick: shutting down everything other than thrusters, FSD and life support, seeing if AFMU could fix up the FSD (could only just about hold integrity steady), rebooting systems.

Oh well, guess I wont be stopping to scan anything on the repeat attempt

Think you are thinking of Black Holes where you hit the exclusion zones. Neutron stars, you've always been able to drop out of super cruise and can easily burn up. That's always been the case with them, even years back (as I experienced first hand years back when I first started exploring).

I still occasionally hit the stream wrong and drop out and I've probably done around 1000+ Neutron star boosts and I still manage to do that here and there. Hence why they are the most dangerous stars at this time, while Black Holes are the safest stars or star like bodies...

 

[ibmalone]

I've seen threads like this https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/298824-How-to-Escape-from-Neutron-Star-White-Dwarf-Jets and https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/8blgd3/how_to_escape_neutron_star_plumes_long/ (when your ship is being slowly eating you've got plenty of time to google escape options in case you missed anything), most people focus on the possibility of hitting the exclusion zone. I did that early on when I was still getting the hang of it (and got away pretty easily), but not for quite a while.

I think the difference this time is I've gotten better at getting into the jet to pick up the boost without a second flyby. Mostly my problem has been getting thrown out of it before getting the boost and needing a second pass, so I've gotten better at getting to a point where you get held in more. This turns out to be not necessarily something you should do

 

[Winterwalker]

I wasn't aware the plume could cause a dropout. Exclusion yes but plume, didn't know.

So "FSD operating outside tolerances," obviously means something! It's easy to get blasé about these things.

A high price paid .. but thanks for the head up Cmdr. o7

 

[Alec Turner]

Don't know if this is what happened to you but I've had a couple of incidents recently where the tail of the cone was only just outside the exclusion zone circle and, while scooping for an FSD boost, I've been buffeted around into the zone and dropped out. Is it just me or is there pretty much nothing you can do to save yourself when this happens? The buffeting means you can never stay lined up with either a target system for a high wake nor the escape vector for a low wake long enough to actually jump out.

 

[Kenneth McGrew]

Don't know if this is what happened to you but I've had a couple of incidents recently where the tail of the cone was only just outside the exclusion zone circle and, while scooping for an FSD boost, I've been buffeted around into the zone and dropped out. Is it just me or is there pretty much nothing you can do to save yourself when this happens? The buffeting means you can never stay lined up with either a target system for a high wake nor the escape vector for a low wake long enough to actually jump out.

you can escape, but it all comes down to what outfitting you have, if you have a decent distributor and dirty drives / clean drives with some decent agility - hitting boost consecutively while the front of the ships is vaguely pointed towards the escape vector / target system and your out (have the FSD fully charged with "align to vector" then the countdown starts and buffeting stops once you boost the ship in a straight line) FA off can also help here too but thats a whole other skill set

i predominantly fly small ships, and the DBx and Dolphin achieve this fine even with 4D thrusts (g5 dd and typically 3D dist with eng focused for minimum two boosts), and i've dropped in many neutrons and escaped, i've experimented the same with a Conda and thats a pig to get out in an exploration build / nigh on impossible, but stick some decent thrusters on it and a huge PD capable of boosting and it too can escape - but then you lose the jump range advantage of the conda

if you are running a conda with 4D thrusters and a 1D distributor then its game over unless your lucky

@op in the plume.

as Alec says some exclusion zones are extremely close to the plumes and you could have been pushed into the exclusion zone, if the plume did drop you from SC then it would be like the disconnect bug when neutrons first came in - you can escape these simply by going back into SC (low wake) not high wake as there is no escape vector or "align to vector" required. - any ship can do this without too much lasting damage.

the only other way to drop into the plume is if your FSD is below 70% (i think its 70% IIRC) a small chance but its there at anything less than 70 (and the chance increases as you get lower) to drop you from SC at anytime, if your scooping a neutron to boost your fsd it could drop you in the plume at the same time.

in the above scenario - video below;

[video=youtube;sXE9W2pb8IE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXE9W2pb8IE[/video]

thats my experience with NS anyway, i did alot of beta testing in the previous betas with broken FSD's escaping neutrons etc (what better place to try with free credits ) but the thread is long buried so i cant find it, i also have a video of escaping using escape vector ill try and dig it out and upload.

edit ** found one reference to it;

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/375648-FSD-Malfunction-Neutron-Jumping-Question/page2

^^ this thread also reminds me i never checked to see if the "bug" was still in LIVE lol, i may use my PC account to go find out.

 

[LifesAJourney]

I've been dropped twice during last weeks. In both cases it was sort of my mistake since I started scooping with FSD integrity at 80%. So it went below 80% during the scoop. I got a malfunction message and was immediately dropped into the normal space. Then several messages about damaged hull and modules appeared. But the ship was not taking any real damage (or it was too low to be reflected in the right panel), the temperature was not raising. First time I managed to repair the FSD to 81 or 82%, jump into SC and escape. Second time I got FSD to 100%, jump into SC and escape. No issues whatsoever.

What is interesting - I'd done similar mistakes before several times during last year. The FSD malfunction messages had been displayed but I'd never had issues with finishing scooping and getting out of the cone. Either something was changed in the game, or... well... I was just lucky before and ceased to be lucky now?

 

[Kenneth McGrew]

I've been dropped twice during last weeks. In both cases it was sort of my mistake since I started scooping with FSD integrity at 80%. So it went below 80% during the scoop. I got a malfunction message and was immediately dropped into the normal space. Then several messages about damaged hull and modules appeared. But the ship was not taking any real damage (or it was too low to be reflected in the right panel), the temperature was not raising. First time I managed to repair the FSD to 81 or 82%, jump into SC and escape. Second time I got FSD to 100%, jump into SC and escape. No issues whatsoever.

What is interesting - I'd done similar mistakes before several times during last year. The FSD malfunction messages had been displayed but I'd never had issues with finishing scooping and getting out of the cone. Either something was changed in the game, or... well... I was just lucky before and ceased to be lucky now?

always been like that since the implementation, the chance is small to drop you, you've been lucky / unlucky however you look at it. anything below 70% in my experience though not 80% so maybe thats changed?

betas over & im not testing in LIVE i dont have a rebuy on my live acct since ever!!

 

[Shnyrik]

Has anyone else experienced this?

I've stayed inside jets in supercruise for rather a long time and didn't know such things were even possible. Will have to be more careful in future, thank you for warning.

The only times I've dropped out inside jets (with fatal consequences) were when I tried to supercharge from tiny short jets in a very close proximity to exclusion zone (i.e. near a white dwarf) and hit it's border accidentally.

P.S. And what was your FSD condition before dropout? Couldn't that dropout be caused by FSD malfunction plus damage taken from supercharge?

 

[Wobblin-Gobblin]

I'm on my way to Colonia atm. I've tried to boost my FSD via neutron star and flew into the cone/plume. I wasn't able to 'load' the FSD. I've heared the warnings, but nothing happened.

Why?

 

[Shnyrik]

Why?

There can be three main reasons:
1) No (or disabled) fuel scoop
2) Stayed inside jet not long enough.
3) Bug.

Did you try to reload game and supercharge again?

 

[ibmalone]

Don't know if this is what happened to you but I've had a couple of incidents recently where the tail of the cone was only just outside the exclusion zone circle and, while scooping for an FSD boost, I've been buffeted around into the zone and dropped out. Is it just me or is there pretty much nothing you can do to save yourself when this happens? The buffeting means you can never stay lined up with either a target system for a high wake nor the escape vector for a low wake long enough to actually jump out.

P.S. And what was your FSD condition before dropout? Couldn't that dropout be caused by FSD malfunction plus damage taken from supercharge?

Both of these are possible, though I was doing the standard "enter sideways and turn towards exit", so I should have been further from the star than when I started. FSD integrity, I'm not 100% sure. I'd repaired it a few jumps before, but I was having serious plotting and galaxy map freezing problems, including getting dumped out of hyperspace to the main menu one or two jumps back (another neutron system, possibly route plotting was just out to kill me at this stage), and a few client restarts. Maybe I lost count, but I'd have had to go from 100% down to 70-80%, which is a lot of boosts, or maybe the FSD repair got forgotten at a server disconnect or client kill. Don't actually know how fast you lose integrity while in a jet in supercruise, I've usually only seen 1% change when getting a boost.

you can escape, but it all comes down to what outfitting you have, if you have a decent distributor and dirty drives / clean drives with some decent agility - hitting boost consecutively while the front of the ships is vaguely pointed towards the escape vector / target system and your out (have the FSD fully charged with "align to vector" then the countdown starts and buffeting stops once you boost the ship in a straight line) FA off can also help here too but thats a whole other skill set

i predominantly fly small ships, and the DBx and Dolphin achieve this fine even with 4D thrusts (g5 dd and typically 3D dist with eng focused for minimum two boosts), and i've dropped in many neutrons and escaped, i've experimented the same with a Conda and thats a pig to get out in an exploration build / nigh on impossible, but stick some decent thrusters on it and a huge PD capable of boosting and it too can escape - but then you lose the jump range advantage of the conda

Good advice yes, with an A-rated Asp I had no problems when I hit the exclusion zone previously, the current one has clean drives so it would have been a piece of cake if the FSD would have deigned to charge up. (Actually, that's weird now I think about it, in your post https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/375648-FSD-Malfunction-Neutron-Jumping-Question/page2 50-60% is just about survivable, it should be possible to persuade the FSD to charge, I had maybe 70% when I looked at integrity and it simply refused to start at all for six minutes plus however long it took the canopy to crack. Though I was also getting powerplant capacity exceeded messages (which is why I turned everything off and one reason I though rebooting was worth trying), so maybe there just wasn't enough power, but again, A-rated power plant. Unless engineered FSDs are more sensitive?)

 

[marx]

Hm, that's odd. We have two people saying they dropped out in the cone below 80% integrity, but back when I tested how long a ship can remain there, I only dropped down from supercruise once the FSD reached 0% integrity. Malfunctions while trying to activate the FSD did happen below 80%, but that was either from trying to get to supercruise, or from trying to jump to a different system. Not while just flying around in SC.

It was in this post, by the way, with some extra info:

Spoiler

So I hopped over to Jackson's Lighthouse to do some ‼Science‼. Here's what I found:

• Only your FSD is damaged by the jet in supercruise, and it degrades continuously while you're inside.
• The module's displayed health doesn't get updated frequently, so its actual health is probably lower than you think.
• Malfunctions start at 79%, and (anecdotal "evidence" warning!) seem to get more frequent the lower the module health gets.
• You only drop down from supercruise when the FSD reaches 0% module health and gets disabled. No random drop-outs before that. At least, it took me around 25-30 minutes (didn't time it, just looking at the logs) to go from 100% to 0%, and I only dropped when the FSD failed.
• If you do drop down into the catastrophic environment of the cone, NPCs can spawn and follow you in there. Sadly, I couldn't check if they get damaged as well, because my sensors fried before I could get a full reading.
• Even a 2A AFM will repair your FSD faster than the jet damages it. (Tested on an Imperial Courier, so six internal slots.)

So basically, as long as you don't hit the neutron star's exclusion zone, you should be mostly safe, unless you're really not paying attention.

 

[Orvidius]

Yeah, I've never had issues with dropping out of SC, unless I hit the exclusion zone. But I always repair at or before 79%. After 4,500+ neutron boosts, I'd have expected it to happen by now if it were just a normal, random thing. Strange.

 

[Major Klutz]

The plume itself will not cause you to drop out of super-cruise BUT damage to the FSD can cause you to drop IF your FSD is below 80%.
Below 80% the FSD has a risk of random malfunction. When you are in the neutron jet, your FSD is taking additional damage and there is an increased risk of a random malfunction each time it takes additional damage.
The chance of that happening increases the lower your FSD health is. It would be rare at 79% but likely at 1%

Drop out in a safe location and repair your FSD BEFORE it drops below 85%. Personally, I try not to let my FSD get below 90%.

Edit: Some say 70%, I have always heard 80%. I can't say I know for sure since it hasn't happened to me, because I never let it get to 80%.
Either way, the chance of it happening is very low at first and increases as the damage increases.
The chance also increases as you take damage. As damage is applied, the dice is rolled for a malfunction, which is why it can happen in the jet since the jet is causing damage.
In my experience, you take ~1% damage every 5 seconds you're in the jet.

 

[Major Klutz]

Don't know if this is what happened to you but I've had a couple of incidents recently where the tail of the cone was only just outside the exclusion zone circle ....

That happens with White Dwarfs. It's not worth getting a boost from a WD. The boost is minimal and you can do better with jumponium. When using the neutron boost option, use the route plotter filter and exclude white dwarfs from your course.

 

[Orvidius]

The chance of that happening increases the lower your FSD health is. It would be rare at 79% but likely at 1%

Drop out in a safe location and repair your FSD BEFORE it drops below 85%. Personally, I try not to let my FSD get below 90%.

Edit: Some say 70%, I have always heard 80%. I can't say I know for sure since it hasn't happened to me, because I never let it get to 80%.

If it's at 70%, that would explain why I don't see it. I never let it get past 79%. I think I got down to 78% once.

EDIT: This is going to make me a bit more paranoid now. I'll probably repair before 85% from now on.

 

[ibmalone]

The chance also increases as you take damage. As damage is applied, the dice is rolled for a malfunction, which is why it can happen in the jet since the jet is causing damage.
In my experience, you take ~1% damage every 5 seconds you're in the jet.

Possible I just got very unlucky then.


This went into the other thread by mistake, but makes a bit more sense in context here:

Interesting, from that thread (wonder if cross-thread quotes work?):

• Malfunctions start at 79%, and (anecdotal "evidence" warning!) seem to get more frequent the lower the module health gets.
• You only drop down from supercruise when the FSD reaches 0% module health and gets disabled. No random drop-outs before that. At least, it took me around 25-30 minutes (didn't time it, just looking at the logs) to go from 100% to 0%, and I only dropped when the FSD failed.

That's fairly recent it seems, which really does make it sound like hitting the exclusion zone is the only way it could happen. I suppose I could have been buffeted backwards?

But also:

Remember that damaged power plant can drop you out of SC at anything less than 80%.

Which would be consistent with not being able to start the FSD, but leaves the question of how the powerplant could get that badly damaged in the first place. (Was at 98/99% from an earlier emergency drop hitting a ring system a little too hard.)

• Even a 2A AFM will repair your FSD faster than the jet damages it. (Tested on an Imperial Courier, so six internal slots.)

Which is fairly annoying, as I picked up the AFMU in Colonia, so it was grade B and couldn't keep up. (Though if the problem was the powerplant, then it wouldn't have helped. Wonder if repair limpets work in a jet cone...)

 

[Major Klutz]

... but leaves the question of how the powerplant could get that badly damaged in the first place. ...

Apart from weapons fire, the only thing that can damage your power plant is an emergency stop. It's immune to heat damage and the neutron jet can only damage the FSD. (unless you drop out of SC)

 

[LifesAJourney]

If it's at 70%, that would explain why I don't see it.

Well, I always get messages about the malfunction and sometimes get dropped from SC when my FSD hits 79%. As far as I remember I've never seen my FSD below 79%.