New Enemy Types, Formations and Tactics.

Duel

D
Simply put, combat is boring. I have the most fun thinking about how good it could be, only to land on the surface of a moon and fight either people that die in a few shots or guys that die in a bunch of shots. I rarely die in combat zones. Which is funny considering it's the only place you can respawn without consequence. That being said, my brain tells me I love the game but my carpel tunnel from doing the exact same weapon swap over and over to kill the exact same type of enemy tells me otherwise.

What we need is a more dynamic experience (yeah I said it). We need packs of enemies that keep formation and have different abilities, strengths and weaknesses. It seems like a very soft version of this is already in the game but it boils down to weather I'm taking cover between kills or jumping over rockets to rush my attacker.

Maybe there should be enemies that are tank-like but move slowly due to reinforced armor, sacrificing shields. Some that have less armor but have super strong shields causing them to have much higher mobility allowing them to jump clear over you, follow you up buildings, evade grenades, etc. Maybe a pack of 4-6 enemies that have reduced damage resistance but rush you as a group to keep the pressure on. Snipers that go rooftop to rooftop. Groups of enemies led by a higher ranking enemy with extra abilities able to order the squad around and keep them on point. etc. etc.

Just another suggestion.

BY THE WAY I posted a suggestion regarding movement mechanics (had an idea for an on foot movement assist similar to flight assist. Kinda hard to explain.) A lot of people didn't like it but I still think it's worth looking into. I bring it up because it might help remedy some movement issues for AI to be jumping around considering gravity changes on a planet to planet basis. Not sure if you can look through my profile or what.
 

Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
What you are talking about (on foot) does more or less exist. Enforcers are tankier and i think move slower (due to weapons) and they do operate in groups.

But i guess its just not as well implemented as you would like, not enough difference between the NPCs, etc.
 

Duel

D
Agony_Aunt said:
What you are talking about (on foot) does more or less exist. Enforcers are tankier and i think move slower (due to weapons) and they do operate in groups.

But i guess its just not as well implemented as you would like, not enough difference between the NPCs, etc.
Click to expand...
Pretty much. I'd want them to be WAY different. Look at Halo. Grunts, Jackals, Elites, Brutes, Hunters, Prometheans, Sentinels, etc. Vastly different.
 

varonica

varonica
ALFALEX said:
Pretty much. I'd want them to be WAY different. Look at Halo. Grunts, Jackals, Elites, Brutes, Hunters, Prometheans, Sentinels, etc. Vastly different.
Click to expand...

Fortunately this isn't Halo, I don't think it adds to the discussion to bring in other games and their way of doing stuff. A lot of games exaggerate the differences to the point of silliness and I wouldn't like to see that sort of thing in ED.
 

Northpin

Northpin
I've seen enough variation in the last CG
For example, Sharpshooters had nice red suits while enforcers and commandos had white suits.

And i'd rather not had the differences so obvious to stand out from a distance. Nothing more suprising to shoot someone and then have an oops moment when you realize it's an enforcer that's basically 3-shotting you using a G5 Tormentor while you're in panic mode 😂
 

Duel

D
varonica said:
Fortunately this isn't Halo, I don't think it adds to the discussion to bring in other games and their way of doing stuff. A lot of games exaggerate the differences to the point of silliness and I wouldn't like to see that sort of thing in ED.
Click to expand...
Not really what I'm asking for. I'm more talking function than cosmetic although I don't think it would hurt to mix it up further.
 
Last edited:

CardioTherapy

C
ALFALEX said:
Simply put, combat is boring. I have the most fun thinking about how good it could be, only to land on the surface of a moon and fight either people that die in a few shots or guys that die in a bunch of shots. I rarely die in combat zones. Which is funny considering it's the only place you can respawn without consequence. That being said, my brain tells me I love the game but my carpel tunnel from doing the exact same weapon swap over and over to kill the exact same type of enemy tells me otherwise.

What we need is a more dynamic experience (yeah I said it). We need packs of enemies that keep formation and have different abilities, strengths and weaknesses. It seems like a very soft version of this is already in the game but it boils down to weather I'm taking cover between kills or jumping over rockets to rush my attacker.

Maybe there should be enemies that are tank-like but move slowly due to reinforced armor, sacrificing shields. Some that have less armor but have super strong shields causing them to have much higher mobility allowing them to jump clear over you, follow you up buildings, evade grenades, etc. Maybe a pack of 4-6 enemies that have reduced damage resistance but rush you as a group to keep the pressure on. Snipers that go rooftop to rooftop. Groups of enemies led by a higher ranking enemy with extra abilities able to order the squad around and keep them on point. etc. etc.

Just another suggestion.

BY THE WAY I posted a suggestion regarding movement mechanics (had an idea for an on foot movement assist similar to flight assist. Kinda hard to explain.) A lot of people didn't like it but I still think it's worth looking into. I bring it up because it might help remedy some movement issues for AI to be jumping around considering gravity changes on a planet to planet basis. Not sure if you can look through my profile or what.
Click to expand...
I agree that on foot is boring. And it is boring because it is too easy. There is no challenge and risk. it is unrealistic and arcade like. You can't even die from a grenade thrown in your feet nor from direct hit from rocket launcher. We don’t need more and stronger enemies but a rework of the FPS system to make it more realistic and involving more risk and danger.
 

Sylow

Sylow
CardioTherapy said:
I agree that on foot is boring. And it is boring because it is too easy. There is no challenge and risk. it is unrealistic and arcade like. You can't even die from a grenade thrown in your feet nor from direct hit from rocket launcher. We don’t need more and stronger enemies but a rework of the FPS system to make it more realistic and involving more risk and danger.
Click to expand...

Nah. I actually think that in a SF environment, where you have a personal energy shield, being able to survive one or two hits of even a big weapon does make sense. (And according to my observation, at least ground gameplay does have a bit less ridiculous power gains by engineering. )

The problem is really that we fight lemmings. Mind you, i haven't done any Odyssey stuff since half a year, so perhaps, while unlikely, my point of view is outdated. But when i actually did ground combat, i found it incredibly easy to predict where the enemy is going and direct them to gather up at one or another corner, then drop a few rockets on them, etc. And that's even before just driving an SRV there, triggering their response, then watching them run after you in a straight line, making it easy to gun them down. And yes, the enforcers do a good deal more damage to your SRV if you allow them to. But you still can stay outside of their range and just gun them down.

Would they learn to fight more indoors, let the player attack instead of always charging blindly, a lot would be gained. Especially if they learn to also return indoors or use proper cover when somebody is attacking in a SRV, instead of just waddling after it and being shot.

I guess FD will rather give them more health, more damage and more range at some time and call it a day.
 

Insanerobert

Insanerobert
In order to do this well, I believe we need some damage adjustments at first and other core mechanic rework.

I like the idea of this, however we need the guns to make more damage per shot FROM PLAYER AND NPC, not just one side. The guns and suit grind for engineering + the need to have Rank III at minimum to survive in any combat situation is also a bad factor for FPS rebalancing at this moment - in combat zones you don't really feel it since ally NPCs are there to get the shots for you, but doing so will screw up solo on-foot missions and base infiltrations. For new players, having to spend an entire magazine just for shields to go down is awful (been there, done that) then having to change the gun because laser guns are bad for suits and kinetic guns are bad for shields (the shield should protect you from a surprise attack but tanking any damage like a ship feels wrong). But, if you're stuck in a Rank I suit.... bye-bye shields and suits, you'll die pretty quicky if 2-3 enemies get too close.

Also, the AI needs some improvements as well. It's not the worst, but can be frustrating at times. The alarms are raised too easily and the NPCs will become hostile instantly at times: for example, if an NPC catches you mid-boosting in the air and suddenly has the urge to scan you, because you're moving / falling, "you're not static so you are criminal scum resisting security protocols, you must die!".

And, the last point: the legal but actually illegal missions on foot. Anything bounty - related or "legal assassinations of criminals" will actually trigger you as hostile on the bases if you're not operating stealthily and will skyrocket your notoriety with ease if you are forced to defend yourself from NPCs inside the base, not to mention NPCs that may spawn inside security level buildings which will require you to "illegaly copy" an ID to get access to him.

In order to make NPCs get new "tactics and formations" we also need these core mechanics reworked, since they will break other gameplay situations and will make other instances unplayable. Don't get me wrong, I am supporting both these modifications to be implemented (core mechanics + NPC AI improvement), but depends on DEV team + MANAGEMENT if they desire to put the time and effort (and budget) on this (I hope they will though - it will be worth it).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom