General New module suggestion (introducing PvP consent trigger mechanic)

[zikolach]

Disclaimer: this is not supposed to be yet another Hotel California thread, not suggesting to remove any game modes etc.

Pilots Federation presents - new module prototype, supposed to be pre-equipped on all new ships - Counter-Aggression Scrambler (CAS) (the module name is subject of change).
The module is being developed at laboratories of Pilots Federation to prevent unprovoked acts of human-to-human aggression.

Current module prototype occupies size 1 optional slot (as tested only for small ships). Production version could be relevant to ship size, e.g. size 1 for small, 3 for medium and 5 for large - to be defined if module is certified by the community.

While being activated produces significant impact to potential aggressor ship, such as:

• interferencing interdiction module (providing significant advantage while attempting to evade interdiction)
• UPD: causing attacker ship to drop at larger distance from target ship (e.g. 1 km)
• causing malfunction of attacker weapon modules (while being targeted at your ship UPD or after for landed shot - what came first)
• causing malfunction of aggressor shield generator (shield shuts down if attacker attempts to ram target with shield active)
• causing malfunction of aggressor powerplant (temporary reload if attacker attempts to ram targets without shields) or thrusters

Ship equipped with the module is shown on others radars as hollow circle (as opposed to triangles and squares), unless opponent ship scanned target ship scramble codes (see below).

IMPORTANT: Every time ship equipped with the module lands at space stations, planetary ports and outposts (last respawn port) the module scramble codes are changed. Despite being treated carefully the codes can still be stolen and sold to potential interested party (other commander) at dedicated station contact. Alternatively the codes can be obtained by scanning target ship high wake signature. The others can use these codes to effectively counteract CAS module effects.

What is also important, the module will be automatically deactivated while:

• player performs any aggression act against other human ship, SRV or character on foot
• accepting and joining to wing missions
• taking any missions having influence as reward (reward type needs to be chosen upfront)
• carrying PP cargo or holding PP merits
• holding non-zero notoriety

Manual activation and deactivation of this module (if possible) will take relatively long time (e.g. 1 minute).

Upon activation all the above mentioned conditions will be toggled with respective consequences - missions will be abandoned, PP cargo jettisoned, PP merits cleaned.
Having non-zero notoriety prevents this module to be activated.

In addition all Apex taxi ships are equipped with this module. Everyone can attempt to interdict Apex with 99.99% guarantee that Apex pilot evades intediction (why - to not break lore and immersion).

As possible consequence Pilots Federation expects more pilots to be pulled together, contributing to the prosperity of the human race towards the conquest of the galaxy!

 

[Tiili]

I can see some problems, such as what happens when a fighter is launched to attack the target.

Would fighter fire turn off main ship weaponry?
What about using this to troll CZs and RES by ramming player ships to disable their shields and moving into their line of fire to disable their weapons, then a wing/discord buddy can swoop in and rek em.

etc..

It's a pretty good idea for nice people, but thinking like a bad guy reveals a few flaws.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

• causing malfunction of agressor shield generator (shild shuts down if attacker attempts to ram target with shield active)
• causing malfunction of agressor powerplant (temporary reload if attacker attempts to ram targets without shields)

A hulltank built for ramming could probably survive perfectly well on 50% power output, especially versus a weak target ... but it'd make an interesting module for Sidewinder station-rammers to fit: have your victim suddenly lose shields and thrust while in a restricted time area or coming into land at a high-G port, even if they didn't necessarily get a fine/bounty for it.

 

[Rubbernuke]

No. Just use the modes for what they were intended for and accept Open for what it is.

If anything PG needs to be made more of a thing.

 

[zikolach]

It's a pretty good idea for nice people, but thinking like a bad guy reveals a few flaws.

That's why I posted it here - get feedback and see why and where it can have flaws.

I can see some problems, such as what happens when a fighter is launched to attack the target.

Would fighter fire turn off main ship weaponry?
What about using this to troll CZs and RES by ramming player ships to disable their shields and moving into their line of fire to disable their weapons, then a wing/discord buddy can swoop in and rek em.

Ordering fighter to open fire = act of agression. Fighter weapons will malfunction if targeted ship with active CAS. If other way around - on first attack the mothership deactivates its CAS.

The second case is to fly to combat zone with active CAS and put yourself on a trajectory of enemy (player) ship to be rammed, to provoke it's shield to be deactivated. Is that correct?

I guess it might be added to the conditions for module to be deactivated. We already get a warning before dropping at CZ POI.

 

[cmdr chequers]

It's a good idea, but how many unrelated areas of the game will FDev break while implementing it.

 

[ethelred]

Ultimately what is this module for and what need does it currently address that is superior to other solutions?

Your description tells me what it does very well.

 

[LeoBartlet]

Oh here we go.

 

[zikolach]

A hulltank built for ramming could probably survive perfectly well on 50% power output, especially versus a weak target ... but it'd make an interesting module for Sidewinder station-rammers to fit: have your victim suddenly lose shields and thrust while in a restricted time area or coming into land at a high-G port, even if they didn't necessarily get a fine/bounty for it.

As malfunctioned powerplan I meant (maybe) sudden ship reboot (or similar effect) or temporary shutting down of powerplant.
It would be nice to test what currently happens in many of cases which casual player like me doesn't experience (and even don't think of) during everyday gameplay,
It would also be interesting to see a commander thrusted towards a station airlock and rebooted ship at the same time.

 

[HRDiagram]

It's a good idea, but how many unrelated areas of the game will FDev break while implementing it.

My guess is that the introduction of this module would cause the following bugs:
-Power Play panels not working
-losing one tier of main faction reputation when undocking from a planetary port orbiting an M class star
-Icy bodies invisible in FSS mode
-Inability to equip left forearm items in the suit cosmetics window

 

[Red Anders]

It's a good idea, but how many unrelated areas of the game will FDev break while implementing it.

None, because it will never happen. I mean come on, it's been seven years now - are people ever going to grasp the concept that time spent trying to change the way the modes work is wasted. No amount of 'this is not a Hotel California thread' prefixes alters the fact that this is, in every conceivable way, a Hotel California thread.

 

[zikolach]

Ultimately what is this module for and what need does it currently address that is superior to other solutions?

Your description tells me what it does very well.

That's very good question!

It would (possibly) atttract more commanders to open, while they are busy with legal activities earning credits and reputation - explorers getting back from long exploration trips, traders delivering cargo (non-PP and BGS related), miners while not firing back to pirates etc.

One of the important things is that PvE interaction would not be (significantly) affected - we can assume that if pirate is on target trying to get player delivering cargo - they managed to get scramble codes to interdict and attack its target, same for system authorities etc.

 

[zikolach]

None, because it will never happen. I mean come on, it's been seven years now - are people ever going to grasp the concept that time spent trying to change the way the modes work is wasted. No amount of 'this is not a Hotel California thread' prefixes alters the fact that this is, in every conceivable way, a Hotel California thread.

Correct me if I am wrong, but the main condition for a thread to be marked as "Hotel California" is a demand to remove one or more game modes. I totally agree with many - it won't happen in any foreseable future due to many reasons. But I think this sort of optional module could work.

 

[ethelred]

Ok, this is my feedback.

1. Preventing interdiction.

This can be done already through situational awareness and using the scanner.

2. The module makes you invulnerable.

But - you only need to be invulnerable for the 15 or so secs you need to be able to high wake out. You can do this with existing module loadouts.

There's a case for smaller ships perhaps where the invulnerability is (top of my head) a one-off 30 sec blast so you can escape.

I do like the idea that the module can be compromised, but I can't see how that would be balanced for either party (without the addition of a tiresome minigame)

 

[zikolach]

Ok, this is my feedback.

1. Preventing interdiction.

This can be done already through situational awareness and using the scanner.

2. The module makes you invulnerable.

But - you only need to be invulnerable for the 15 or so secs you need to be able to high wake out. You can do this with existing module loadouts.

There's a case for smaller ships perhaps where the invulnerability is (top of my head) a one-off 30 sec blast so you can escape.

I do like the idea that the module can be compromised, but I can't see how that would be balanced for either party (without the addition of a tiresome minigame)

If one feels safe enough, the use of the module it totally up to him.

Many people complain (and I personally agree) that high wake is often not a solution. What should trader do with full cargo bay and target station being blockaded?

The idea that there should be a way to clean the status (exchange scramble codes), by landing at intermediate station. Or to prevent module compromising by performing hyperjumps from "safer" places, e.g. further away from main star.

Do you have any particular cases in mind where it should be specifically balanced?

 

[LeoBartlet]

Correct me if I am wrong, but the main condition for a thread to be marked as "Hotel California" is a demand to remove one or more game modes.

You're wrong.

The criteria to be considered a Hotel California thread are numerous and include suggestions to add/remove particular modules that change the pvp dynamics.

 

[zikolach]

You're wrong.

The criteria to be considered a Hotel California thread are numerous and include suggestions to add/remove particular modules that change the pvp dynamics.

So basically any module? Even Universal Multi Limpet Controller one May I try to repair/refuel you to death?

 

[LeoBartlet]

So basically any module? Even Universal Multi Limpet Controller one May I try to repair/refuel you to death?

Good luck finding me in solo.

 

[ethelred]

The easy answer is don't be interdicted in the first place! Ofc that's not so easy.

Take it back to basics. You have an antagonist and a protagonist, where the asymmetrical nature means there's no chance of a non PvP ship to compete in a straight up fight.

The win for the protagonist is therefore to achieve their objective (delivering cargo/merits/data)

Your module makes it a lot easier for that to happen - a ship jumps in, can't be interdicted or damaged for X seconds etc.

If I understand correctly, the antagonist can scan the protagonist and after a certain time has elapsed, the module becomes ineffective.

Give this state of affairs, for the protagonist using the module - what is the benefit of using it over the aforementioned tools?

For the antagonist, why should there be an additional timer to their goal?

 

[zikolach]

Give this state of affairs, for the protagonist using the module - what is the benefit of using it over the aforementioned tools?

The benefit is to not be stresed by seeing hollow triangle on the radar in SC, while still keeping close attention on the constraints (no return fire, keep your wakes safe from scanning etc). So no immediate threat, but still possible indirect ones.

For the antagonist, why should there be an additional timer to their goal?

I didn't think specifically about timer or anything to "help" the antagonist to pursue the target. At first I wanted to be sure that current PvE mechanics are not broken lore-wise.

But I agree that the status quo for piracy (no ganking) should be met.

Current proposition is that antagonist can still use weapons, being restricted not to use targeting system (questionable, as could probably buff fixed weapons a lot), as the weapons malfunction while actively targeting protagonist ship.

As a consequence it could be that more traders/miners would save space un-equipping shield generator, making it potentially easier to immobilize them. Imagine a trader dropped next to the station and while cruising towards right side of the station pirate disables its thrusters, so trader drifts out of station no-fire zone, where pirate can safely rob him - something like that.

It could be some interaction in SC with NPC pirate, which appears and attempts to interdict a trader (pretending they obtained scrable codes). And if they succeed antagonist may drop to low wake and either attempt to attack protagonist (if fast enough), or at least scan the wake signal (if to late and they jumped). This has some space for balancing - e.g. having scrable codes could make interdiction even easier for antagonist (or NPC).

It is hard to say why would any party benefit from new module. It is rather to revert the current attitude - even if I play performing legal activities in high security systems - I don't feel safe. I'd like to consent to put myself into dangerous situation by taking BGS missions, delivering PP cargo etc - so I expect the opposition would counteract and my allies would support. Or delivering cargo to anarchy systems I would expect higher reward and higher risk. I hope you see what I mean.