Newcomer / Intro Newb question about combat

Xenon 325i

X
I've been playing for a couple of weeks having been Elite back on the BBC when I was a kid but I'm getting my *** handed to me on a plate in combat (solo mode). I've been building up credits using core mining and I'm up to about 100M CR but on the occasions I've been attacked by a pirate I'm dead before I've even switched weapons from mining to combat. I accept the diamond back explorer is not really a combat ship but on my last mission I placed a couple of beam lasers and a couple of multi-cannon things and headed to a mining ring to wait for the pirates (having placed something valuable in the hold). On arrival I deployed the weapon hardpoints and sure enough a pirate asked me for my stuff but I was ready to battle. Same thing - i get the "Under Attack" message and then "Taking Damage" (literally seconds later) followed by death before I've even moved. Are the non-player pirates super-tough or am I missing something? Do I need a lightbulb moment like when I learned to recognise asteroids with core mining potential?

Any advice welcome.
 

Chris Simon

Chris Simon
Xenon 325i said:
I've been playing for a couple of weeks having been Elite back on the BBC when I was a kid but I'm getting my *** handed to me on a plate in combat (solo mode). I've been building up credits using core mining and I'm up to about 100M CR but on the occasions I've been attacked by a pirate I'm dead before I've even switched weapons from mining to combat. I accept the diamond back explorer is not really a combat ship but on my last mission I placed a couple of beam lasers and a couple of multi-cannon things and headed to a mining ring to wait for the pirates (having placed something valuable in the hold). On arrival I deployed the weapon hardpoints and sure enough a pirate asked me for my stuff but I was ready to battle. Same thing - i get the "Under Attack" message and then "Taking Damage" (literally seconds later) followed by death before I've even moved. Are the non-player pirates super-tough or am I missing something? Do I need a lightbulb moment like when I learned to recognise asteroids with core mining potential?

Any advice welcome.
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It would help if we knew what exactly we are dealing with here. Do you think you could go here: https://coriolis.io/ and replicate your build so we can assess it?

Like you said, Diamondback is not really a combat ship but on the other hand, when equipped right, she's no slouch either.
I suspect your main problem will be the bulkheads and shields. You can buy four types of hull upgrades that dramatically increase your hull's toughness and you need to buy shields that are appropriate for the ship size. If you equip a shield that is too "small", it will be paper thin, good for maybe save you from scratching your pain in a collision but no good for combat.
If you give us your build, we can do something about it.

But by and large, your "lightbulb moment" probably is - you can't have one ship equipped for everything and sometimes the best combat option is to just run.
If you have a 100MCr, I would probably recommend to try and build a dedicated combat ship. Perhaps a Vulture. Kit it out for combat and start practicing. You may pick up skills that will later allow you to fight successfully even in weaker ships, too, but there's no point in just dying ov er and over without knowing why.
 
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Xenon 325i

X
Thank you for your reply. I suspect shields and boosters are the weak point as I didn't do much with those. I was considering building a dedicated combat ship with which to practice but didn't want to keep losing it. I can try a Vulture as you suggest - what would be the recommended weapons and upgrades to fit? Incidentally, I'm on Xbone if that makes any difference to anything.
 

aRJay

aRJay
Xenon 325i said:
Thank you for your reply. I suspect shields and boosters are the weak point as I didn't do much with those. I was considering building a dedicated combat ship with which to practice but didn't want to keep losing it. I can try a Vulture as you suggest - what would be the recommended weapons and upgrades to fit? Incidentally, I'm on Xbone if that makes any difference to anything.
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I would suggest this as an unengineered starting Vulture.

Coriolis EDCD Edition

A ship builder, outfitting and comparison tool for Elite Dangerous
coriolis.io coriolis.io

Platform only really affects who you can meet in the game.
 

Xenon 325i

X
Thanks. And is the general tactic to deplete shields with lasers and then unload with kinetic? Generally speaking? Also, the point defence on the utility mount - does that look after itself or do you have to fire/arm it somehow?
 

aRJay

aRJay
Point defence is totally automatic unlike ECM which has to be charged by you holding a button for several seconds they both deal with missiles etc. Chaff has to be triggered manually but can be assigned to dedicated button so doesn’t have to tie up one of your triggers it is good at making turrets and gimbals miss.
The laser will have more effect on the targets shields than the kinetic weapon and vice versa against hull, however swapping round is too much trouble for me so I would fire both all the time.
 

Xenon 325i

X
Problem is chaff and ECM can't be assigned to a "quick" button on an Xbox controller I don't think. I'm guessing as the build you posted has no cargo capacity at all it is only useful for bounty-hunting / assassination missions as well as building combat skills.
 

Ashnak

Ashnak
You will gat as many opinions on comabt ship loadouts as there are plaers in ED (probably more) - and that includes a lengthy discussion about whether to equip the Vulture with dissimilar weapons or not :).

If you want to spend the money, by all means, go for the Vulture. The more conservative approach would be to start with a Viper (e.g. something like this), as it's cheaper to lose - and you will lose it several times.
The other conservative idea is to start with kill stealing from the cops, i.e. you drop into a RES and follow the police around. When they start shooting, scan the ship, wait until it shows up as wanted in your HUD and then help the cops kill him. Don't hit the cops by accident, and definitely wait until you've scanned the target as wanted - otherwise, all the cops and everyone else will join forces and start hunting you.

As for shields and hull/lasers and cannon: no. Yes, lasers are more effective against shields - but if you run a mixed loadout, the laser part alone will be weaker than a full kinetic loadout against the shields. You can do it if you want to conserve ammo, but it wll take longer to the kill.
 

Ashnak

Ashnak
They should ba able to be assigned to a quick button, even on the XBox - the problem is, though, which button will you relieve of other tasks? The XBox has to compromise there.
And it is as Chris said above - it's very difficult to build a practical multi role ship. Easier to stick to a single task and switch ships. Tht somewhat changes when you get to the big ships, you can always find some space for a cargo module on a combat Krait, or some armamanet on a cargo Krait.
 

Ashnak

Ashnak
Xenon 325i said:
I'm not sure what that means. Is it something to do with Horizons (which I don't have)?
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Yes... Engineers are people who can modify your ship's modules, but they are linked to Horizons. The Guardians are basically the content of 3.3 (so far), and also linked to Horizons. Either of these can only be found on planets.

There should be a sale (has been every year now...) at the very least around black friday. If you still play by then, you should be able to pick up Horizons for a tenner.
 

dm06

dm06
If you die fast, then it means you have weak shields and hulls (or got a lot of damage🙃).
Without engineers the only path is more shield boosters, hull and module reinforcement - the more hp you have the longer you will be able to stand. You can see ship stats in right panel -> ship tab -> lowest page.
If your ship is smaller than attacker then probably it is possible to evade fire (master your pip managment, four pips to eng accelerates ship faster).
You can tank smaller ships (again about pips, the more pips on sys the more bonus resistance they have) - no need to evade their fire because they are unable to do much damage, more reasonable is to concentrate fire on them.

Generally ship's damage looks like this (no engineered weapons):
  1. shields, they protect everything, shields have more resistance against explosive and kinetic damage types, that's why npcs attack with lasers first (it is thermal damage)
  2. when shields gone, hull and module reinforcements come in game, the less hull you have the more damage goes inside ship and damages modules, module reinforcements takes some part of the damage, which saves from module malfunctions for longer time. The hull have more resistance against thermal weapons, that's why npcs switch to multicannons/cannons/missiles once target lost shields, because those are explosive and kinetic damage types
  3. at some point the ship explodes. Though I don't know exact reasons why.🙃
 
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cmdr milesred

cmdr milesred
all the ship advice aside, normally mining will bring npc pirates when you get to site, then when you are off to market maybe more...
but normal npc pirate fighting is actually fairly weak and for those that are very good at killing npc's adding cargo they want brings an extra level of challenge.
that said, if you want to get better simply go to extraction sites or compromised nav beacons to fight them but do NOT bring cargo unless you actually want the extra challenge.
 

Xenon 325i

X
all makes sense, thanks everyone. I was just surprised how the npc pirates (there were at least two) blasted me out of the sky but then I'd done nothing at all with shield improvement, hull improvement or boosters etc. so that might be the reason.
 

d8veh

d8veh
First of all, if you're mining, don't fight the pirates. Why would you want to? Why would you want to entice them into a battle by carrying cargo? Sometimes the pirates are in a wing of 4. You'd have no chance. If you want to fight, at least choose who you want to fight with. Sometimes, the pirate is only a harmless Sidewinder. without cargo, you can pick and choose who to fight, but t when you carry cargo, every pirate will attack you..

Fighting pirates when you're mining doesn't make any sense at all. All you need to do is wait until the pirates scan you then they work their way round your radar, then they jump away, leaving you to mine in peace. When you're mining, half your ship's modules are taken up by mining equipment that won't help you at all in battle.

If you want to go and fight, get yourself a combat ship, like a Viper, Vulture, FAS, or FDL, equip it for combat, then go and pick your fights in a Haz RES or wherever you want..
 

Xenon 325i

X
Yes you’re right it makes no sense - I was just affronted by someone trying to steal my stuff! Where’s the best place to start without stealing? Nav beacons?
 

Ashnak

Ashnak
Any place without cops. Compromised nav beacons or haz RES. Just make sure you have nothing in your cargo hold, otherwise you'll find yourself suddenly fighting everyone.
 

d8veh

d8veh
Xenon 325i said:
Yes you’re right it makes no sense - I was just affronted by someone trying to steal my stuff! Where’s the best place to start without stealing? Nav beacons?
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I'd start in the high RES. You can pick which bad guys to fight, and the cops will come to help you when you get in trouble in most cases. When you go to a high RES, you get different types of ships spawning each time you visit. Logoff and back on again to reset the spawn until you get small and medium ships to practice fighting using a Vulture. When you get the hang of it, try the bigger ships. When you're confident that you can do it on your own, go to a Haz RES or a compromised nav beacon (CNB).

You'll be wasting your time at the haz RES if you haven't learnt the basics of pip management, thruster control and combat techniques.
 
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