Next update?

[Helena]

You got a point there with the information being kind of low now, because they do not want to say things that they have remove later on, it would cause sadness.

I know, we are all impatient but we have to wait.

Right now I am not playing as much but it come in waves, sometimes I sit on my bum for hours playing, affecting my work hours. (I work at home designing/sewing) Right now I am not playing, but I know it will come back soon.

 

[Vampiro]

You got a point there with the information being kind of low now, because they do not want to say things that they have remove later on, it would cause sadness.

I know, we are all impatient but we have to wait.

Right now I am not playing as much but it come in waves, sometimes I sit on my bum for hours playing, affecting my work hours. (I work at home designing/sewing) Right now I am not playing, but I know it will come back soon.

Same here ...

The game is nice to play around with, but you're done with that after a while because you can't really make your dreampark at this moment.
But im sure i will be playing again after the next big update. And the next one ... and finally going all out playing when it's getting released.

 

[CMDR Ellegon]

I'm sorry that you feel this way based per our previous game releases. We've been making sure that isn't the case here on our Planet Coaster forums and community. Especially in our Coaster Head Club and Alpha sections.

You need to realize that the Xbox platform for Elite Dangerous has had a few hurdles to get through. Especially with a lot of the game's' code and the store support.

As for rushing content, if you want us to release an unplayable, buggy, ridden mess of a game client, you're looking at the wrong development team for this genre.

As for being swayed, as you're an early bird customer - check the alpha forums. Numerous ideas and feedback that has been shared on the first phase of alpha has changed our views on many items in the game. Some portions of our development process for rides, UI, and so forth has changed as well.

Brett,

with all due respect: there isn't really much involvement of the PC developers on the Alpha forums either. For example, the whole first page of the Alpha feedback forum (minus the stickies) had not a single post from anybody at FD when I checked right now.

I guess that is OK, but the overall silence here and on the Alpha forums is deafening. A little bit of feedback or a weekly newsletter like there is for ED would go a long way to keep your Early Birds and the people still on the sidelines happy.

 

[Aaronroberts12567]

I as an Alpha tester

lol

 

[Stream]

Brett,

with all due respect: there isn't really much involvement of the PC developers on the Alpha forums either. For example, the whole first page of the Alpha feedback forum (minus the stickies) had not a single post from anybody at FD when I checked right now.

I guess that is OK, but the overall silence here and on the Alpha forums is deafening. A little bit of feedback or a weekly newsletter like there is for ED would go a long way to keep your Early Birds and the people still on the sidelines happy.

This. It's not that we ask to see everything that's being worked on, or even get a list of everything that'll be included in the update, but we need some type of interaction from you guys about the feedback we've given so far or people's willingness to give you feedback will drastically decline.

I always bring up the Parkitect team. They're three people and they manage to not only keep a weekly dev log going, but they're also pumping out monthly updates to their game with new content and features . They're three people... you guys are in the hundreds.

I never understood this mindset of developers to keep things so much in the dark... I understand not wanting to give false promises, but come on. Open things up for discussion, that's all we want.

 

[Inge Jones]

And the main rival, which *didn't* charge extra for early access, are doing twice-weekly streams where they take questions, and have a proper ticketing system where we can see exactly how they have reacted to our bug reports. Also frequent update builds.

 

[Stream]

And the main rival, which *didn't* charge extra for early access, are doing twice-weekly streams where they take questions, and have a proper ticketing system where we can see exactly how they have reacted to our bug reports. Also frequent update builds.

Well, they did plenty wrong previously so what they're doing now is kind of whatever in my eyes. But the Parkitect team has always been super open about development and what they're working on and it has never backfired on them, ever. So I don't understand what the problem is.

 

[robertwallace]

Re: minimal communication.

I'm certainly not the hardest worker on the alpha team, though I have spent a good deal of time testing and documenting the problems I've come across. However, I feel like I'm just tossing my effort into the bin and setting it out on the curb. There's no apparent need for me to keep doing that. So...

I've stopped reporting bugs, with the one I posted today being my last -- it's probably a known issue, anyway, but there's no way to know. The usual QA response (if any) is "I couldn't reproduce that." (so it's not real.), even with a dozen or so similar reports, copious examples, etc. The Known Issues list is so general it might as well have the single issue: "It's Alpha." This leads to continual reports of the same class of problems.

I no longer have any desire to contribute to that mess and I'm fast losing enthusiasm for the alpha forums, in general. Currently, the only redeeming feature for me is the abundance of user park pics being posted. The fact that some are really unique and beautiful, is a testament to the creativity and fortitude (and plenty of spare time) of those builders. The fact that many look so similar is a different issue.

Having to wait another month for fixes, updates, and new content is OK -- Frontier never promised timely updates during alpha or that they'd actually listen to what is reported or suggested. I never promised to find their problems, either, so I guess we're balancing out, there.

Maybe if I come up with another wad of cash to upgrade to Coaster Head, my voice would be louder. Probably not.

Robert

 

[Abletudu]

And the main rival, which *didn't* charge extra for early access, are doing twice-weekly streams where they take questions, and have a proper ticketing system where we can see exactly how they have reacted to our bug reports. Also frequent update builds.

The "main rival" screwed up so bad that they have to do it as damage control.

 

[BigDaddy1]

The "main rival" screwed up so bad that they have to do it as damage control.

so? it's actually just called running a responsive alpha/beta test, so it took them a lot longer to finally catch on, so whats Frontiers excuse?. There has to be good communication between tester and dev for it to lead to a successful final product. Again, good communication shouldnt be that hard, it's amazing how many software companies simply dont get it. We paid almost twice the final price to be here, it wasnt to just be ignored, it was to help shape a game we love.

 

[Thokari]

And the main rival, which *didn't* charge extra for early access, are doing twice-weekly streams where they take questions, and have a proper ticketing system where we can see exactly how they have reacted to our bug reports. Also frequent update builds.

Releasing a trainwreck of a game, and then over night labelling it as "Early Access" in Steam to mitigate at least some of the damage, is in my oppinion much, much worse than "charging extra".
Not fueling a discussion about the rival product here, but as a sidenote, in Germany that game was even available to regularly buy in stores already, off the shelves, without any words or labels about it being "Early Access". Shameful to say the least.
To me, the things you are describing are merely an act of pulling the chestnuts out of the fire.
But like I said, I will not go further into that topic.

Planet Coaster is much less advanced in terms of software progress (not quality), than any other product that it is being compared to here.
This means the conditions are just different in terms of what you could publicize about tasks that are being worked on, because it is very likely this would cause confusion or even disappointment.
I would even go as far as saying this is a result of the feedback that we have given so far. And I appreciate that.

 

[BigDaddy1]

because it is very likely this would cause confusion or even disappointment.

sorry, you run this tired opinion out every post, the vast majority of the people here are adults, many of us successful business people in various fields, I think we will be able to understand if they simply put an asterisk when speaking on possible future features reminding everyone (* all future features are still in development and thus may change or be canceled during the course of development)
All I'm saying is Q@AJack over in the bugs forum understands how testing give and take in an alpha/beta setting works, Why can one actual busy crew member respond to every bug report, but yet other forums from users are completely ignored. We are after all the target market, we know what we want, they might want to ask us about such things. I have found that software works best when its developed hand in hand with the end targeted user.

Planet Coaster is much less advanced in terms of software progress

Not by that much, this game is shipping in two quarters, feature lock down has to be right around the corner to allow enough time for polish. This game is well along in development, they may call this alpha but alpha/beta is not much more than marketing buzzwords these days. Again, I think what they have shown and are doing here looks great, but if I have a bunch of testers clamoring to give me feedback, I'm sure as ❤︎❤︎❤︎❤︎ gonna thank em and respond to them. Frontiers getting too caught up in its own bubble, crunch is coming, and all we are saying is dont forget about us, the testers AKA your customers..

 

[mark0ne]

Brett,

with all due respect: there isn't really much involvement of the PC developers on the Alpha forums either. For example, the whole first page of the Alpha feedback forum (minus the stickies) had not a single post from anybody at FD when I checked right now.

I guess that is OK, but the overall silence here and on the Alpha forums is deafening. A little bit of feedback or a weekly newsletter like there is for ED would go a long way to keep your Early Birds and the people still on the sidelines happy.

As I said, Frontier have to my experience and in the experience of other forum participents in other Frontier games, Frontier have always seem to have this blind eye when it comes to communication with forum dwellers. Without wanting to seem like I am a hater ( really I am not, I love PC to bits, fantastic, and I have Elite Dangerous on both my PC and Xbox one!). But in my experience that is becoming more evident here, Frontier seem to have the idea that proof is in the pudding. As in it doesn't matter how quiet they play it, they only give out info a couple of weeks if not just several days before the update is ready to rollout. Then all is OK because the update is fine and what was wanted. It just doesnt work like this.

Brett kindly gave us a few example on how our input is shaping how they are working on the game but all that is not going to help their relationship with their customers if they do not communicate this well. They are brilliant coders and obviously extremely passionate about what they do, but customer relations, I dont know, they just dont seem to get it? People say they would rather have a better more complete patch than regular forum communication. How can a quick post or two each week really influence or hinder a coders work that much. We are talking a quick QA with their people who run the forum, maybe half an hour at the most. Heck their forum people could just sit in on a meeting or two that they must hold regularly to track internal progression on the game and quietly take notes....then just have one or two people at the end of the meeting go over the notes and censor it appropriatley for the forums as I daresay they wont want just anything being leaked on to the web.

Communication - is that not what they pay their forum/community staff to do so the coders don't have to lose time doing it? Why pay them to do the job then stifle them so much? It just seem counterproductive to me......when all is said and done this is not a private hobby that we are not entitled to know anything about and should be just grateful for whatever they throw our way. We have payed our hard earned money for early access and Frontier did this in order to gain our input which they deemed valuable, deemed us valuable to the process. They threw the gates open to their theme park, charged us a higher entrance fee and now have people staring in at windows and doors that seem to stay shut....

Just to make it clear, for my part at least, I am not concerned about lack of code updates or game updates, more content etc. We were told how it was going to roll out at the start of the Alpha and that is fine. I trust Frontier that this is the best way for them to give us the game we want and to the obvously high standard they want to maintain. Fantastic - they are doing a great job. But just a little more transparency please? You are working on a feature suggested? .....you have changed the way you are approaching an area of the game due to our suggestions then tell us how it has changed and why. We are not looking for in depth running commentaries or all access to sensitive info you have a right to keep internal, just a little more transparency. Some pointers or even a short progress report. Don't just come out with these snippets of info in a defensive response to perhaps what you feel are attacks against the Frontier team or forum staffers. They are not - they are just posts by people who are desperate for more info. All the people wanting this info and feeling they aren't receiving it can't all be wrong...

 

[Stream]

Another aspect of actually discussing things and letting people know what suggestions they're considering, what they're working on improving, etc. is that we'll sort of get this check list in our minds of what's being fixed so that we can give feedback on other things. It's easy to get frustrated with things that you don't know whether they will be fixed or not, and harp on them too - but if you've been told that they're looking into it, then it's much easier to live with those issues for now.

It's also a bit worrisome to me to hear that they're working on the path system, but that it may not be included in phase 2. I understand that you want to test different things in the different phases, but there's plenty of people playing the game for hours on end for upgraded systems from phase 1 to be included along with the new phase 2 systems. It may not be done by then, but then it should be rolled out as soon as it is done so that people can test it out properly. I feel like there were a lot of systems in PC that were very reminiscent of all the problems that RCT3 had, and that really worries me because it seems as if Frontier doesn't see them as problems since they're still there 10 years later. And those are the things that I think a lot of people would love to have an open discussion about. Which is why communication is super important during an open alpha like this...

 

[The Stig]

Boy this sounds familiar...

 

[fultre]

Guys give them a break, they are extremely busy! I know you can't wait for more but this isn't the way to go about it, be grateful for the amazing product they have developed based on our feedback and years of experience...

 

[Periocus]

Guys give them a break, they are extremely busy! I know you can't wait for more but this isn't the way to go about it, be grateful for the amazing product they have developed based on our feedback and years of experience...

I gave up hope here. It never will be enough.

If they start to do PR and the update will be delayed or things shown will not be in the update people start to scream.
They have to discuss what, when to release, because RCTW is still a compatitor. So they don't want to hand out good ideas for them to use. It is not just 2 minutes sitdown und write.

So it is better to withstand now and when they start streams again and show the new shiny things, everything will be forgotten.

 

[inspectorgadget1]

They have to discuss what, when to release, because RCTW is still a compatitor. So they don't want to hand out good ideas for them to use.

Understated point, Atari have already shown in some of their updates they are willing to steal ideas

 

[Inge Jones]

I am not disputing any of the comments pointing to "never mind the communication, as long as it ends up being a great game". You could turn out to be completely right. But if all we are going to get is the game we were going to get anyway, why are they apparently selling separate tiers for extra involvement? Why isn't it all the one price (with optional donation button that doesn't promise anything extra)?

As to the point about rivals stealing ideas, if that is a genuine concern then maybe Frontier should just say "Look guys we can't tell you much after all, so anyone who paid £25 for extra info can get a refund" and then remove that offer from the store.

 

[shaneturner12]

If you ask me, I'm happy to patiently wait for the next update. Incidentally for those who have Facebook there is quite a bit on their Facebook page image-wise.

Regarding those not happy with a 'unable to reproduce' scenario, I've encountered this with other games. It's usually a case that more information is needed to track the issue down or that the issue is not actually game related and becomes a hardware issue.

Regarding the CHC, I am a member of that and do have a look when I can. That £25 probably also covers the cost of the merchandise from that as well not just the forum access. Whilst things do seem a bit quiet over there at the moment I'm sure that things will pick up later in the year as it's only Alpha 1 at the moment.

From experience with other games, the danger of them spending too much time on here may be that less time is spent on the actual game development - people need to consider whether they want more communication on here or for them to use the time to develop the game.

Shane