No Famine? Or a Bug?

[Jmanis]

Im pretty sure Famine now is a state that comes after bust - opposite of investment. OH, speaking of bust, i dont think i've seen that state since the update either... :thinking:

This one. And you're correct, no system is in Bust either, coz as I'll mention later, it's very difficult to hurt a faction's economy.

Lowest to highest:
Security scale goes: Lockdown, Civil Unrest, None, Civil Liberty
Economic scale goes: Famine, Bust, None, Boom, Investment

So, it doesn't occur the same way as it used to (which was the same as outbreak, which occured as a result of a natural downtick if players weren't active, and specific missions which cause that state[1]). If you want a Famine, trash a system's economy (have fun with that, since there's minimal activities you can actively do which hurt a faction's economy). Comparatively, it's much easier to negatively affect system security, but even then, it's harder than maintaining it positively, so there's only a handful of systems in Civil Unrest/Lockdown.

Other states which can occur, which are entirely unrelated to those scales, and you'll find occurring are:
- Conflicts: War, Civil War, Election
- Expansion/Retreat
- Outbreak, Pirate Attack, Incursion, which are seemingly random at this point.

There *is* a problem with some factions which are stuck in an expansion/conflict etc. but there's also a lot of FUD with people thinking some factions are "stuck" in Boom/Investment etc.. This is not a problem, as they'll maintain that state as long as the slider is in that zone.

So, Famine/Bust aren't bugged, they're just difficult to deliberately cause. One of the only ways which *might* work is deliberately selling for a loss, or doing Skimmer Missions (unverified, used to cause Famine for the target faction in old BGS, so may cause a drop on the economic slider reported as "Causing Famine"). Black market trading at a non-anarchy-owned station may also hurt that factions economy (that's how you used to cause a bust).

[1] Such missions were delivering Biowaste (specifically the mission, not just generally doing it on the market) for Outbreak, and skimmer kill missions for famine. Again, even in the old system there was a lot of FUD and incorrect knowledge going on.

 

[Myou]

[1] Such missions were delivering Biowaste (specifically the mission, not just generally doing it on the market) for Outbreak, and skimmer kill missions for famine. Again, even in the old system there was a lot of FUD and incorrect knowledge going on.

Selling narcotics to outbreak systems used to cause famines aswell. In general im a bit miffed by the new sliders, it seems impossible to "do poorly", which naturally pervents some stats, some of which ed FAMINE!! are important to gain exclusive materials and other gameplay opportunities...

 

[Jmanis]

Selling narcotics to outbreak systems used to cause famines aswell. In general im a bit miffed by the new sliders, it seems impossible to "do poorly", which naturally pervents some stats, some of which ed FAMINE!! are important to gain exclusive materials and other gameplay opportunities...

Honestly, I never saw any evidence to support that sort of thing, ever, and the countless threads making similar claims (e.g selling biowaste, trading weapons etc), only ever had anecdotal reports. Nobody could ever provide any evidence or isolated scenarios where they were able to reliably reproduce the scenarios. But anyway,, that's the old system, you definitely couldn't do it now.

 

[Myou]

Honestly, I never saw any evidence to support that sort of thing, ever, and the countless threads making similar claims (e.g selling biowaste, trading weapons etc), only ever had anecdotal reports. Nobody could ever provide any evidence or isolated scenarios where they were able to reliably reproduce the scenarios. But anyway,, that's the old system, you definitely couldn't do it now.

Im certain. At the very least delivery missions involving those commodities stated so, id be hard pressed if selling commodities didnt have the same effect (we know selling commodities can cause effects: see UA bombing). But yeah, that seems largely to be things of the past.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Im certain. At the very least delivery missions involving those commodities stated so, id be hard pressed if selling commodities didnt have the same effect

In 3.2 there were three mission types involving delivering alcohol to a faction.
- another faction could tell you to deliver it there (the recipient got +Bust)
- the faction could ask you to fetch it for pay (the recipient got -Civil Unrest)
- the faction could ask you to donate it (the recipient got +Boom)

I don't see any reason to expect that market trade does the same as a mission, when the missions themselves were inconsistent for the same cargo.

 

[CR33P]

"I don't see any reason to expect that market trade does the same as a mission, when the missions themselves were inconsistent for the same cargo."

Bear in mind if you're delivering goods on a "mission" you're delivering to a specific faction. If you trade at market are you affecting all factions? Doesn't what you're selling affect different factions in different ways depending on what their current state is... Does it work like when you sell exploration data..? So many questions.... lol

 

[Myou]

In 3.2 there were three mission types involving delivering alcohol to a faction.
- another faction could tell you to deliver it there (the recipient got +Bust)
- the faction could ask you to fetch it for pay (the recipient got -Civil Unrest)
- the faction could ask you to donate it (the recipient got +Boom)

I don't see any reason to expect that market trade does the same as a mission, when the missions themselves were inconsistent for the same cargo.

I dont recall any Alcohol deliveries but im sure deliveries of biowaste always caused +outbreak.

"I don't see any reason to expect that market trade does the same as a mission, when the missions themselves were inconsistent for the same cargo."

Bear in mind if you're delivering goods on a "mission" you're delivering to a specific faction. If you trade at market are you affecting all factions? Doesn't what you're selling affect different factions in different ways depending on what their current state is... Does it work like when you sell exploration data..? So many questions.... lol

I always took it as being credited to the ruling faction on that station - which would be consistent with how we up our influence for our PMF, bulk trading.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Bear in mind if you're delivering goods on a "mission" you're delivering to a specific faction. If you trade at market are you affecting all factions? Doesn't what you're selling affect different factions in different ways depending on what their current state is... Does it work like when you sell exploration data..? So many questions.... lol

Trade at the market affects only the faction which owns the station. (As does selling exploration data)

There may be different effects depending on the current state, of course, but I wouldn't necessarily expect the type of cargo being sold to directly matter.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

I dont recall any Alcohol deliveries but im sure deliveries of biowaste always caused +outbreak.

For missions, yes, definitely.

Non-mission deliveries probably not.

(The missions *still* say they're +outbreak, and don't actually appear to be, though...)