No Man's Sky changed my perspective.

[Viajero]

Elite does not implement orbital speeds

It does. By the looks of that thread I think that test may have been flawed. These ones below seem to have worked, no issues:

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/245741-Got-ship-in-a-REAL-orbit-(video)

The ship completed 2⁤½ orbits in 8h 20m, here compressed into 16m 40s (30× speed-up).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmarSMb_6RY

At 5,906.8ly from Sol, NGC 6565 Sector KC-V c2-6 body 3B has a radius of 758km, weighing in at 0.0007 Earth masses - meaning orbital velocity at 10km is only 603m/s, achievable with traditional drives in a souped-up Courier

In fact the math logic for this to work is pretty simple. As long as the gravity force is propery represented and as long as the planetary body is properly dimensioned and rendered that is "all" you need for a flight assist off orbit.

Bonus vid: Slingshot acceleration, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ob7Kb8hY0EY

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

A broader palette of unique tools to work with is superior to duplicating the same goal all over the same court. So yeah sounds about right. If Elite were an art project they'd take the existing crayons and put them in a bigger box.

Also your belittleing and infantalizing of the NMS player base is intriguing to me. One of the common refrains from incumbents when a disruptive product comes along is to dismiss it as essentially "a crappy product for crappy customers." Maybe Elite is being disrupted by NMS? Will be interesting to see where the two games stand by the end of the year.

I think it's called giving as good as he gets. If they can't take it, they shouldn't dish it.

 

[trumpet]

Actually I'd forgotten about the sense of size thing and yeah - ED certainly has never done that but then in ED you can't "land" on a gas giant (and get crushed LOL). I remember waiting for FE2 to come out and counting down the weeks and then flying over planets and through clouds and between hills.

I also remember deliberately annoying the local authorities because I had a ship they couldn't kill lol - panther clipper with massive shileds iirc - maybe hundreds of shield modules? Can't quite remember but I stil lhave my "Captains Log" that I kep a journal in LOL

Yeah killing cops was a lot easier back then! ha ha ha

 

[Noctover]

I've said before that I would love to explore the interior of my ship in Elite.

I no longer think like this.

Now, what does No Man's Sky have to do with this? Simple.

That game has pretty much aced "space legs". I mean it is amazing how well done exploring a planet on foot is. Brilliant job.

However...

All I could think about whilst finding animals and building bases was, I wished I were in my ship, flying.

I think that says a lot. Clearly, I didn't realise how much I love Elite's act of piloting until I experienced what I thought I wanted added.

I now am no longer worried about space legs in Elite. It is apparent that I play the game to be a pilot. And I'm happy with that.

I agree with this a lot, if they implemented space legs ONLY to walk around the ships id be happy with that, why? Because we are just dash cams glued to windscreens at the moment...We are "Ships" not someone flying it, until we can get out of the seat and move as a separate entity while the ship does whatever we last left it doing, THAT is what will separate us from being a ship.

No mans sky is superb at many thing, and has reached technical places ED is not capable of however the poor flight controls, controller support and just "jumping" in your ship like a convertible porche and inability to look around the ship left me feeling like i didn't have a ship. ED is all about the flying, NMS you just want out the ship and exploring some gorgeous earth like.... They both have something the other lacks.

If NMS and ED had a baby you could scrap all future space games, genre sorted.

 

[Jex =TE=]

It does. By the looks of that thread I think that test may have been flawed. These ones below seem to have worked, no issues:

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/245741-Got-ship-in-a-REAL-orbit-(video)



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmarSMb_6RY



In fact the math logic for this to work is pretty simple. As long as the gravity force is propery represented and as long as the planetary body is properly dimensioned and rendered that is "all" you need for a flight assist off orbit.

Bonus vid: Slingshot acceleration, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ob7Kb8hY0EY

Like I said, you can easily test this by accelerating and decelerating at pitch 0. If you do not increase/decrease your altitude you are not in a simulated orbit.

Yeah killing cops was a lot easier back then! ha ha ha

only because they tried ramming...... a 900 tonne whale lmao.

 

[Viajero]

Like I said, you can easily test this by accelerating and decelerating at pitch 0. If you do not increase/decrease your altitude you are not in a simulated orbit.

Indeed, and it works. You can see that principle shown for example in the Asp video albeit in a slightly different manner. The orbit achieved by the Commander testing is not perfectly circular, but elliptical. As altitude increases towards a major axis you see how the velocity of the ship diminishes. And viceversa. All in Assist Off without the CMDR touching the throttle. To top it off this shows nicely the principle of conservation of energy (quinetic and potential).

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Indeed, and it works. You can see that principle shown for example in the Asp video albeit in a slightly different manner. The orbit achieved by the Commander testing is not perfectly circular, but elliptical. As altitude increases towards a major axis you see how the velocity of the ship diminishes. And viceversa. All in Assist Off without the CMDR touching the throttle. To top it off this shows nicely the principle of conservation of energy (quinetic and potential).

So the only element that was questioned in Sleutelbos' list:

Plus flight model, hotas support, VR, actual orbital mechanics, ship customization that far exceeds NMS, vastly superior AI (in nms accidental collisions are fixed by simply allowing you to clip through ships), thargoids are much more interesting than any random alien in nms, people on the same planet experience the same time etc etc. NMS is fun, but incredibly lacking in so many ways they can never add later. Which is fine, but solisb et al are hilariously wrong.

appears to be correct after all.

Repped Sleutel for being 100% accurate.

 

[Naskoni]

So the only element that was questioned in Sleutelbos' list:

appears to be correct after all.

Repped Sleutel for being 100% accurate.

Yeah, flight models, even more ship customization, AI (?), more aliens (even more aliens) and multiplayer (both have peer-to-peer) are things that NMS "can never add later"? Sure...

I mean, the only added procedurally generated atmospheric planets with procedural plants and animals, fully fleshed out spacelegs, terrain manipulation, player built planetary bases, customizable capital ships, fleet management and otherwise reworked the rest of the game, with a team of 10-15 in 2 years, but they could NEVER add any of the things above, ha-ha-ha! Ah, white knights, do never change [haha]

On a related note - the AI in Elite is on such an otherworldly level that ships with a docking computer STILL can't land properly

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Yeah, flight models, even more ship customization, AI (?), more aliens (even more aliens) and multiplayer (both have peer-to-peer) are things that NMS "can never add later"? Sure...

I mean, the only added procedurally generated atmospheric planets with procedural plants and animals, fully fleshed out spacelegs, terrain manipulation, player built planetary bases, customizable capital ships, fleet management and otherwise reworked the rest of the game, with a team of 10-15 in 2 years, but they could NEVER add any of the things above, ha-ha-ha! Ah, white knights, do never change [haha]

Seeing the way you seem to want to bear NMS' children, it does seems white knights like you do never change. Surely you are aware of the irony of the way you slobber over NMS, and project that on other people?

Because NMS can add that later. Elite does not get that leeway from you.

You are self aware enough to realise this, right?

 

[Naskoni]

Seeing the way you seem to want to bear NMS' children, it does seems white knights like you do never change. Surely you are aware of the irony of the way you slobber over NMS, and project that on other people?

Because NMS can add that later. Elite does not get that leeway from you.

You are self aware enough to realise this, right?

Yeah, I'm self aware that all I have to do is work with but a handful of facts to make a whole bunch of infantile white knights foam at the mouth from some kind of knightly rage and pull all kinds of brainfart "arguments" in their desperate defense of Elite despite said facts being shoved in their face, in all kinds of ways.

And my point is - flight models have existed eons before Elite came out. Actually compared to a real simulator Elite is a kiddie game in that regard. Procedurally generated planets, atmospheric planets, with procedural flora and fauna - now that is something few have achieved and FD is most certainly nowhere near that goal, beaten by a team at least 6 times smaller in half the time. Now you tell me, oh mighty white knight, which one is more probable to NEVER happen - implementing a flight model or procedurally generated atmospheric planets with flora and fauna + space legs?

 

[House0fDerp]

I think it's called giving as good as he gets. If they can't take it, they shouldn't dish it.

Smells of pettiness to me. His original comment didn't even mention NMS or Hello games but someone had to bring it back and make a jab. Maybe it's the general tone of these threads, but that came in response to a post that didn't instigate that response.

Unless the default response to criticism is lashing out at competition...

If they can't take it indeed...

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Smells of pettiness to me. His original comment didn't even mention NMS or Hello games but someone had to bring it back and make a jab. Maybe it's the general tone of these threads, but that came in response to a post that didn't instigate that response.

Unless the default response to criticism is lashing out at competition...

If they can't take it indeed...

Possibly. Just looked like criticism of NMS to me. Take it however you like though.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

You are self aware enough to realise this, right?

I guess he's not.

 

[Naskoni]

I guess he's not.

I have seen quite a few different reactions of true white knights when cornered and beaten up with the combined weight of facts and reality but I honestly can't remember another instance of somebody starting to lead a "conversation" with himself. Quite original, so carry on - this might get interesting indeed! [yesnod]

 

[babelfisch]

I have seen quite a few different reactions of true white knights when cornered and beaten up with the combined weight of facts and reality but I honestly can't remember another instance of somebody starting to lead a "conversation" with himself. Quite original, so carry on - this might get interesting indeed! [yesnod]

You seem to be obsessed with the term white knight. Maybe you are just trying to learn something about yourself?

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

I have seen quite a few different reactions of true white knights when cornered and beaten up with the combined weight of facts and reality but I honestly can't remember another instance of somebody starting to lead a "conversation" with himself. Quite original, so carry on - this might get interesting indeed! [yesnod]

Still waiting on your definition of a white knight. You seem to be struggling to come up with one.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I have seen quite a few different reactions of true white knights when cornered and beaten up with the combined weight of facts and reality but I honestly can't remember another instance of somebody starting to lead a "conversation" with himself. Quite original, so carry on - this might get interesting indeed! [yesnod]

Are you aware of the concept of projection? It is when you see your own behaviour in others. That was the reason why I asked whether you where aware of what you're doing here.

And this

Yeah, I'm self aware that all I have to do is work with but a handful of facts to make a whole bunch of infantile white knights foam at the mouth from some kind of knightly rage and pull all kinds of brainfart "arguments" in their desperate defense of Elite despite said facts being shoved in their face, in all kinds of ways.

showed me you weren't self aware enough to recognize that.

Another thing to keep in mind is, you're on the Elite forums, defending NMS and slagging off Elite.

edit: White knights irrationally defend a game against all criticism. While my main argument throughout the thread has been one of collective ignorance, not one of defending Elite.

Otherwise you're welcome to point out my desperate defense of Elite. You know. Shove some facts in my face

 

[Naskoni]

You seem to be obsessed with the term white knight. Maybe you are just trying to learn something about yourself?

It seems that white knights get REALLY touchy when being called that - I am learning even more stuff about your kind, constantly - no need to try, you just keep piling on the practical experience! Reminds me of a great call back from many years ago - white knights, UNITE! [haha] I'm pretty sure at this point you don't even remember what this thread is all about - now all that matters is the overwhelming feeling of the white knights honor being openly disrespected in the most vile of ways - with facts!

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Are you aware of the concept of projection? It is when you see your own behaviour in others. That was the reason why I asked whether you where aware of what you're doing here.

And this

showed me you weren't self aware enough to recognize that.

Another thing to keep in mind is, you're on the Elite forums, defending NMS and slagging off Elite.

He seems to be completely delusional if he thinks that people are foaming at the mouth. He must have a very high opinion of himself, which is obviously delusional.

I suppose I could have been foaming from laughter though.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

I have seen quite a few different reactions of true white knights when cornered and beaten up with the combined weight of facts and reality but I honestly can't remember another instance of somebody starting to lead a "conversation" with himself. Quite original, so carry on - this might get interesting indeed! [yesnod]

I am personally utterly bored by this conversation to be frank. This is why I avoid these threads. They are meta skirmishes with little to do with actual games and more "showing the man who's what".

I still play ED. I still enjoy ED. I still have no feelings for NMS. Call us as you want...it really doesn't change a fact that not everybody agrees with you.

Why it is so important for you to "beat" someone, to prove they enjoy ED?

I will lend you a secret - it's not. It's pointless. Your spouse / girlfriend, your decisions on work life, your creativity. They matter. This? This is nonsense. Pointless. People rushing to one side of internet to prove their have 'won'. Won what? ED is still ongoing. I still enjoy it. I still wait for Q4 and stuff beyond Beyond.