No Man's Sky recent success is good sign for Elite and future Space games/sims

[verminstar]

I for one love the walking around in NMS.
I just spent 1 hour in a seemingly endless dungeon maze I got lost in while looking for materials, and it was glorious.
Eventually found a way out by jet packing through a cave in.

The stations though are very similar and repetitive.
I hope they'll make more 'station pieces' and let the procedural generation lay out the design more.

Oh and the planets are not that small.
I had a quest objective on the other side of a planet, and it would have taken me 18 hours to walk there from my position.
Not to shabby.
Of course no where near Elite's true scale planets, but enough to get a great feeling of vastness.

Some of the cave systems are truly huge, Ive got lost before and have had dark thoughts about just digging out with the terrain manipulator...but I can be stubborn when I put my mind to it and besides, I would probably run outta ferrite before reaching the surface anyway knowing my luck and sense of direction. Everything gets confusing underground cos theres no real landmarks to gauge exactly where ye are.

Theres also not a single scrap of oxygen in caves, so pre warned and all that.

On the topic of grind in nms...just like in ED, grind is a choice. Just like ed, ye can just collect bits and pieces here and there and just enjoy the exploration aspect of it. Even taking things easy and not grinding out, once ye know how things work it requires very little effort to make more than enough cash fer anything in the game.

Buy the scanner upgrade that gives upgrades in units profit in percentages of several thousands...its literally a free money printer that is bought fer a relatively low price with another currency called nanites, easily enough found in bits and pieces as ye just play the game, but unlike ED, it still takes relatively little effort or time to get to the point where survival is a mere trivial detail.

Its tough if ye start of a toxic hellhole...ye it hurts but hey...its supposed to hurt because it is still a survival game at its heart. After all the arguments about how its not fair to compare games, and then another 20 pages of complaining about the grind and comparing it to ED again. Seriously, thats how this debate has swung when ye follow it from page one till now.

Now ye will grind if ye choose to build mansions, castles and fortresses early on in the game as the sheer amount of resources needed are staggering...yer gonna need a lot more than carbon when yer building steel and concrete structures or windows. Thats a grind certainly, but the results are obvious in the progress which is very much visible and fun to let yer imagination run a bit mad with.

But thats a purely optional hobby...its not actually required to progress through the game, although it can be useful to have if ye consider ye can put a claim down virtually anywhere and start building once ye have the base computer which ye get access to in the early stages of the storyline missions.

Just wanna do yer thing, then just do yer thing...yer gonna have to build warp cells to at least jump to another system so yer gonna have to collect something and make something. Yer still gonna have to power yer sheilds and breathe oxygen and fuel the ship but these things dont take a lotta time to do but ye cant just expect resources to just fall into yer lap with a ribbon attached considering its a survival game at heart.

As with ED, the grind is a subjective choice and the mechanics are entirely different to the grind in elite...the grind in nms is actually enjoyable in its own way while the grind in elite is just mind numbingly tedious. But then we aint really comparing the games are we? Elite has the best flight mechanics by far, way better and more realistic settings, themes and graphics but what it lacks is the fun element...while that may well be a weork in progress, someone else just happened to fill the power vaccuum as it were and if nothing else, its a game with fun by the bucket load once ye start getting into it.

Flight model like Freelancer? One the most legendary games in the entire space games genre, right up there with some of Brabens classics too? That Freelancer? Damn that game was the game that started my love affair with this genre...so much fun that one. So...about that flight model...not great by todays standards but lets not compare, remember? Its not trying to be a sim game so ye can only really judge the game on what it is which is a survival based game.

On the flipside, if one does wanna compare the two, they both doing the same type of game, only they started with the sorta content that was promised once upon a time but not a reality, and is commonly requested on these forums, while their flight model is a bit naff. Meanwhile, elite does spaceship flying second to none...imo there will probably never be anyone who gets close to how good elite does it. If/when frontier do it/something, no doubt it will be raining rose petals and Braben will be walking on palm leaves again...but until then nms is a really fun distraction to fill the time. Cos time is another thing frontier does well...along with silence and quarterly bug fixes if at all. Meanwhile on nms, theres bug fixes every other day...

This is why its not a good idea to start making comparisons. So best to just accept that both games simply do different things because they are based on very different types of gameplay. Both games excel at what they do and will have its own loyal fanbase just like ED does...what it will also do is share players and attract more new players into the genre that many consider niche. Surely thats not a bad thing or do others like feeling like they special snowflakes in the gaming world?

Anyway...Im off to enjoy that cartoonish game right now. I do genuinely wish to one day log into these forums and see FD rose to the challenge and Q4 was being compared to the second coming of christ...the benchmark in the genre, how flying spaceships is supposed to be done. But until that happens, elite isnt the only nightclub in town...might be the best at what it does, but others are better at what they dont do.

Food fer thought...cyas in Q4...or not...whatever ^

 

[Gortron]

Some of the cave systems are truly huge, Ive got lost before and have had dark thoughts about just digging out with the terrain manipulator...but I can be stubborn when I put my mind to it and besides, I would probably run outta ferrite before reaching the surface anyway knowing my luck and sense of direction. Everything gets confusing underground cos theres no real landmarks to gauge exactly where ye are.

Theres also not a single scrap of oxygen in caves, so pre warned and all that.

On the topic of grind in nms...just like in ED, grind is a choice. Just like ed, ye can just collect bits and pieces here and there and just enjoy the exploration aspect of it. Even taking things easy and not grinding out, once ye know how things work it requires very little effort to make more than enough cash fer anything in the game.

Buy the scanner upgrade that gives upgrades in units profit in percentages of several thousands...its literally a free money printer that is bought fer a relatively low price with another currency called nanites, easily enough found in bits and pieces as ye just play the game, but unlike ED, it still takes relatively little effort or time to get to the point where survival is a mere trivial detail.

Its tough if ye start of a toxic hellhole...ye it hurts but hey...its supposed to hurt because it is still a survival game at its heart. After all the arguments about how its not fair to compare games, and then another 20 pages of complaining about the grind and comparing it to ED again. Seriously, thats how this debate has swung when ye follow it from page one till now.

Now ye will grind if ye choose to build mansions, castles and fortresses early on in the game as the sheer amount of resources needed are staggering...yer gonna need a lot more than carbon when yer building steel and concrete structures or windows. Thats a grind certainly, but the results are obvious in the progress which is very much visible and fun to let yer imagination run a bit mad with.

But thats a purely optional hobby...its not actually required to progress through the game, although it can be useful to have if ye consider ye can put a claim down virtually anywhere and start building once ye have the base computer which ye get access to in the early stages of the storyline missions.

Just wanna do yer thing, then just do yer thing...yer gonna have to build warp cells to at least jump to another system so yer gonna have to collect something and make something. Yer still gonna have to power yer sheilds and breathe oxygen and fuel the ship but these things dont take a lotta time to do but ye cant just expect resources to just fall into yer lap with a ribbon attached considering its a survival game at heart.

As with ED, the grind is a subjective choice and the mechanics are entirely different to the grind in elite...the grind in nms is actually enjoyable in its own way while the grind in elite is just mind numbingly tedious. But then we aint really comparing the games are we? Elite has the best flight mechanics by far, way better and more realistic settings, themes and graphics but what it lacks is the fun element...while that may well be a weork in progress, someone else just happened to fill the power vaccuum as it were and if nothing else, its a game with fun by the bucket load once ye start getting into it.

Flight model like Freelancer? One the most legendary games in the entire space games genre, right up there with some of Brabens classics too? That Freelancer? Damn that game was the game that started my love affair with this genre...so much fun that one. So...about that flight model...not great by todays standards but lets not compare, remember? Its not trying to be a sim game so ye can only really judge the game on what it is which is a survival based game.

On the flipside, if one does wanna compare the two, they both doing the same type of game, only they started with the sorta content that was promised once upon a time but not a reality, and is commonly requested on these forums, while their flight model is a bit naff. Meanwhile, elite does spaceship flying second to none...imo there will probably never be anyone who gets close to how good elite does it. If/when frontier do it/something, no doubt it will be raining rose petals and Braben will be walking on palm leaves again...but until then nms is a really fun distraction to fill the time. Cos time is another thing frontier does well...along with silence and quarterly bug fixes if at all. Meanwhile on nms, theres bug fixes every other day...

This is why its not a good idea to start making comparisons. So best to just accept that both games simply do different things because they are based on very different types of gameplay. Both games excel at what they do and will have its own loyal fanbase just like ED does...what it will also do is share players and attract more new players into the genre that many consider niche. Surely thats not a bad thing or do others like feeling like they special snowflakes in the gaming world?

Anyway...Im off to enjoy that cartoonish game right now. I do genuinely wish to one day log into these forums and see FD rose to the challenge and Q4 was being compared to the second coming of christ...the benchmark in the genre, how flying spaceships is supposed to be done. But until that happens, elite isnt the only nightclub in town...might be the best at what it does, but others are better at what they dont do.

Food fer thought...cyas in Q4...or not...whatever ^

+1 V rep Verm... apparently I need to spread the love.

 

[Ian Skippy]

I don’t get why people are so vigorously trying to defend ED and make out like NMS is a wildly different game. [...]

The things that really make them different if you want a space exploration game (which most people do I think) is one is focus on hard Sci-fi and space flight and the other is focused on planetary exploration and survival.

I think you kinda say it yourself. One game is about space flight and astronomy, the other is about walking on fantasy planets. How would you call that other than 'wildly different'? :S

"I dont get why people pretend a plane is a wildly different mode of transportation than a jetski. The thing that really makes them different is that they are completely different modes of transportation."

 

[Gortron]

I think you kinda say it yourself. One game is about space flight and astronomy, the other is about walking on fantasy planets. How would you call that other than 'wildly different'? :S

"I dont get why people pretend a plane is a wildly different mode of transportation than a jetski. The thing that really makes them different is that they are completely different modes of transportation."

Whom are you quoting? If you don't want ED to be anything more than it already is then you have a point. Fundamentally both games are fantasy, unless someone has worked out how to travel faster than light and has a time machine?

Is it not a bit odd that you can travel faster than light but can't land on a planet with an atmosphere?

 

[Ian Skippy]

Whom are you quoting? If you don't want ED to be anything more than it already is then you have a point. Fundamentally both games are fantasy, unless someone has worked out how to travel faster than light and has a time machine?

Is it not a bit odd that you can travel faster than light but can't land on a planet with an atmosphere?

Thats a weak strawman. As it stands, the games are wildly different. Sure I want ED to have space legs and atmo landings. I also want NMS to have proper space, flight model, HOTAS support and VR. But neither of that is the case, so in reality they are simply very different games focusing on very different things. One is about flying spaceships, the other is about walking on planets. Thats not a criticism of either game, and I have both in my library. But lets not pretend its strange people claim ED and NMS are different games: they simply are different games. Not sure why that is such a controversial statement among a few people, to be honest.

 

[verminstar]

+1 V rep Verm... apparently I need to spread the love.

I sorta got a bit carried away...I dont use the nms forums at all even though forums are half the fun sometimes. The attachment with elite is still there which is why Im still here at all, simply because I love both games fer what they are.

And also because what HG achieved makes them the underdog everyone wrote off make a comeback from the ashes of 2 years ago. Its almost like the Rocky story haha...I have a softspot fer underdogs and they certainly raised eyebrows enough to be given at least a fair chance at having their time in the spotlight.

Ultimately, I want elite to be made great again, but its a lotta time between now and Q4 and the seemingly ingrained silence is just boring now. I need some mindless fun...tis like bein back in the army and goin fer weeks and months with some time back in the world...hit the town, get absolutely off yer face and go nuts in the sleaziest parts of whatever city yer in fer an entire weekend...then back to humpin and marching good on the drill square and whatever else they scream into yer face to do.

If the grind in elite is like having another job, then the grind in nms is the weekend on the blitz...just watch that itch on the drill square 6 weeks later ^

 

[Gortron]

Thats a weak strawman. As it stands, the games are wildly different. Sure I want ED to have space legs and atmo landings. I also want NMS to have proper space, flight model, HOTAS support and VR. But neither of that is the case, so in reality they are simply very different games focusing on very different things. One is about flying spaceships, the other is about walking on planets. Thats not a criticism of either game, and I have both in my library. But lets not pretend its strange people claim ED and NMS are different games: they simply are different games. Not sure why that is such a controversial statement among a few people, to be honest.

How on earth is what I said a strawman? They really don't need to be wildly different games. NMS could get a nice flight model and some stars and ED could get some decent exploration and a story line that doesn't require google; I'm pretty sure I know which is easier to achieve.

 

[Gortron]

I sorta got a bit carried away...I dont use the nms forums at all even though forums are half the fun sometimes. The attachment with elite is still there which is why Im still here at all, simply because I love both games fer what they are.

And also because what HG achieved makes them the underdog everyone wrote off make a comeback from the ashes of 2 years ago. Its almost like the Rocky story haha...I have a softspot fer underdogs and they certainly raised eyebrows enough to be given at least a fair chance at having their time in the spotlight.

Ultimately, I want elite to be made great again, but its a lotta time between now and Q4 and the seemingly ingrained silence is just boring now. I need some mindless fun...tis like bein back in the army and goin fer weeks and months with some time back in the world...hit the town, get absolutely off yer face and go nuts in the sleaziest parts of whatever city yer in fer an entire weekend...then back to humpin and marching good on the drill square and whatever else they scream into yer face to do.

If the grind in elite is like having another job, then the grind in nms is the weekend on the blitz...just watch that itch on the drill square 6 weeks later ^

I still love Elite Verm. I just don't get why people (not you) react to criticism of ED as if their grandmother has been run over by a car. [haha]

 

[Ian Skippy]

How on earth is what I said a strawman? They really don't need to be wildly different games.

Maybe they dont need to be different games, but they are different games. I am talking about the reality in which we live, not how you imagine a reality could be one day. Right now, NMS and ED are very different games. Thats why people call them very different games. Because they simply are very different games. Maybe you imagine a future where they are very similar. That'd be grand, truly. I am looking forward to improvement of both games. But people are not talking about how games are in your imagination or some hypothetical future, but rather how games simply are right now in the real world. So if you wonder why people call them different games, which is how this discussion started in the first place, this is why: they simply are different games.

 

[Gortron]

Maybe they dont need to be different games, but they are different games. I am talking about the reality in which we live, not how you imagine a reality could be one day. Right now, NMS and ED are very different games. Thats why people call them very different games. Because they simply are very different games. Maybe you imagine a future where they are very similar. That'd be grand, truly. I am looking forward to improvement of both games. But people are not talking about how games are in your imagination or some hypothetical future, but rather how games simply are right now in the real world. So if you wonder why people call them different games, this is why.

Yes they are different games in a similar way to how a boeing 737 is a different airliner to an Airbus A319. Both are airliners but they are a different shape and one is fly by wire and the other wasn't originally but now is. They are both Airliners and they both fly people around in the air. But they are different.

Just to be clear, they are very different [yesnod]

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

I still love Elite Verm. I just don't get why people (not you) react to criticism of ED as if their grandmother has been run over by a car. [haha]

It's totally unique to the ED forums.
When I went on the Championship Manager forum and complained that:

90 minute games take too long. They should be 40 mins to respect my time.
The scores are too low which makes the game boring. Should be 10 goals each side minimum.
38 game seasons are are pointless grind, even without the FA Cup and Champions League
There's only one Christiano Ronaldo and he won't sign for York City on £2k per week

They embraced my criticism with open arms and elected me official Community Spokesman.

 

[M00ka]

It's totally unique to the ED forums.
When I went on the Championship Manager forum and complained that:

90 minute games take too long. They should be 40 mins to respect my time.
The scores are too low which makes the game boring. Should be 10 goals each sude minimum.
38 game seasons are are pointless grind, even without the FA Cup and Champions League
There's only one Christiano Ronaldo and he won't sign for York City on £2k per week

They embraced my criticism with open arms and elected me official Community Spokesman.

That's nothing. I ventured onto the Star Citizen forum and asked if the game as a scam. This resulted in a very in-depth discussion that never once got out of hand, in fact it seemed that even the most ardent supporter was more than willing to listen to my view and debate the issue like adults!

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

That's nothing. I ventured onto the Star Citizen forum and asked if the game as a scam. This resulted in a very in-depth discussion that never once got out of hand, in fact it seemed that even the most ardent supporter was more than willing to listen to my view and debate the issue like adults!

Honestly, I blame TJ.

 

[[VR] Merkir]

Frontier has never claimed to create a full fledged space simulation, that's true.

Just pointing out the ED homepage www.elitedangerous.com:

"400 billion star systems at an incredible 1:1 scale, with a full galactic and technological simulation based on real scientific principles."

Not disagreeing with you. I suppose it depends on how you define "full fledged space simulation".

 

[krylite]

I think you kinda say it yourself. One game is about space flight and astronomy, the other is about walking on fantasy planets. How would you call that other than 'wildly different'? :S

"I dont get why people pretend a plane is a wildly different mode of transportation than a jetski. The thing that really makes them different is that they are completely different modes of transportation."

Indeed, it's so apparent they are vastly different games. NMS is pure survival grind on a fps level, not much different from other survival games out there. ED will have spacelegs someday integrated with atmospherics and cityscape locals, but it's going to be a much more grounded and at a spectacular level imo with the hard sci-fi design aesthetic, than what NMS has.

The main motivation I think of comparing NMS-Next's success to ED's development in this thread is mainly to rub salt into FD and ED's development progress. Which is hilariously nonsequitor. FD already had plans for Beyond and already pre-announced some announcements for further new content in the year. It doesn't help to use NMS-next as fuel to blame them for incompetence or somesuch or call it a "death-knell" for ED. It's very much to go out on a limb with this when they are very different games.

Yes they are different games in a similar way to how a boeing 737 is a different airliner to an Airbus A319. Both are airliners but they are a different shape and one is fly by wire and the other wasn't originally but now is. They are both Airliners and they both fly people around in the air. But they are different.

Just to be clear, they are very different [yesnod]

I'd doubt NMS is close to the level of an airliner if comparing ED as a 737. I've played FSX and previously FS2004/02/00. And have had been in a virtual airline with the pmdg 737 (my favorite plane), and also the older version of the A319 and A320. FSX has been in over ten years , then with the upgraded pmdg737 NGX some of the best 737 and other airliners' systems and commercial airline flightplan simulation ever seen in a pc game. ED is the closest to fidelity based simworld and similar enough in sim effort but on a galactic & star system scaled scopes. The available LOD transitions of ED approaching a planetoid or just flying above at several km above the surface reminds me of FSX's higher elevation modes except ED can do it with billions of planets as just one example. NMS so far hasn't come close to that kind of fidelity in spacesim. It's more like a kid's tricycle with play-rockets, party kazoo horns, or propeller heads compared to FSX pmdg 737.

 

[DefiledDragon]

Just pointing out the ED homepage www.elitedangerous.com:

"400 billion star systems at an incredible 1:1 scale, with a full galactic and technological simulation based on real scientific principles."

Not disagreeing with you. I suppose it depends on how you define "full fledged space simulation".

There's a lot more than stars, planets and nebulae in space. I define a "full fledged space simulation" as simulating all the aspects of space as we understand it. FD have done a good job of generating the stars and planets that exist in the game, but there's a lot missing. For a list of what's not being simulated, see this thread.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...stronomical-Phenomena-Lets-get-those-in-there!

 

[Gravity Drive]

Yes they are different games in a similar way to how a boeing 737 is a different airliner to an Airbus A319. Both are airliners but they are a different shape and one is fly by wire and the other wasn't originally but now is. They are both Airliners and they both fly people around in the air. But they are different.

Just to be clear, they are very different [yesnod]

No Mans Sky is Minecraft in space. Elite is a spaceflight simulator.

They're extremely different and I'm wondering how you could possibly struggle with the distinction.

 

[Eymerich]

No Mans Sky is Minecraft in space. Elite is a spaceflight simulator.

They're extremely different and I'm wondering how you could possibly struggle with the distinction.

Defnitly.

Infact we all know that a spaceship is driven vy wasd and a mouse controller...

 

[sollisb]

Given it's a full-fledged space simulator, I should be allowed to;

Write my own Auto Pilot, auto targeting, auto pip management etc right?

I did it in Flight Simulator in the 90s.. this being the year of our lord 2018, I'm sure it's well capable.

Elite is not nor ever was, close to being a 'simulator'.
As for realistic.... We have thousands of planets we can land on and drive our pram around, but our own home Planet is... Well not landable on... That's realistic right?
We have Points of Interest on planets but no GPS. We have to write our own.
We enter Hyperspace and our entire ship and every screen on it, becomes unresponsive.
The NPCs we meet in space have unlimited ammo.
The Aliens we can meet in Space are Daisies who only occupy certain spacial occurrences.
The Aliens can only ever attack when all the computers are turned off.
Cops in space kill each other.
If you break the law you get a fine. So does everyone in the vehicle with you.
Your working life is dictated by Dice throws. One man will pay you 4m to haul a few tons 1 mile and another a few pennies to go transcontinental!
ATC will will tell you you are doing fine while allowing a whale of a ship to crash into you, and then give you the fine!
If the newtonian physics are so good, why don't we have a Periapsis and an Apoapsis?
How is it that life forms in space have the magic ability to completely fix their ship after one hyperjump yet we can't?
With all these realistic life forms how come there are no oceans on the planets?
Where do all the life forms live?
How come aeroplanes of the 20th century all have autopilots but none have the future?
How come if my ship gets destroyed any telepresenced employees who are not actually on the ship, die? Is that death by wire?

Realistic my bottom!

 

[Kayweg]

Defnitly.

Infact we all know that a spaceship is driven vy wasd and a mouse controller...

Err, would you be very shocked if i told you that's exactly how i (and other kb/m users) play ED, and with no problem at all ?