You can still go about happily playing Elite without doing any of those thing. If you don't gather in NMS, you die.
No Man's Sky recent success is good sign for Elite and future Space games/sims
- Thread starter DoppelGanger
- Start date
You can still go about happily playing Elite without doing any of those thing. If you don't gather in NMS, you die.
I wasn't dissing Guildford, quite the opposite, I live 25/30 minutes away and have done for over 40 years, that's not to say I'm more familiar with it at all as Portsmouth is closer to me.
And some people like it. I play 'Don't Starve' now and then and survival is fun. However that's not what I am looking being start of my space game.
I agree that seeing the emerging possible success of No Man's Sky is encouraging because it's a come back story.
On the other hand, I also like the story Elite Dangerous, the Space Sim who's taking the slow and steady route to success.
I have high causious hopes for X4 Foundations. Initially, I'm just hoping for stability and play-ability.
Star Citizen can also have a path to victory, if CIG can tone down the champagne budget and finally deliver on some solid features.
On the other hand, I also like the story Elite Dangerous, the Space Sim who's taking the slow and steady route to success.
I have high causious hopes for X4 Foundations. Initially, I'm just hoping for stability and play-ability.
Star Citizen can also have a path to victory, if CIG can tone down the champagne budget and finally deliver on some solid features.
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No different in those activities feeling grindy, certainly different in the scale of that feeling for many. Mainly because the gameplay loop in some of those cases is relatively poor, in other cases because of time, in a few because of both. They won't get rid of it but the did create it through the number of resources they put into their progression systems and the mechanics surrounding them.
I just don't see saying "all games have some level of grind" as a defense for THIS level of grind.
I've not played NMS since the next update, but prior I never spent anywhere near 3 hours looking for any one thing. And while you can go on without specific things, that doesn't negate the issues with the process of getting those things. The only real argument is creating rewards for no one to seek, in which case who is this game being developed for?
Sole Hunter
Banned
the whole point of the debate is that if NMS devs can do it in 2 years considering their size, revenues and the complexity of their game then fdevs can absolutely bring back elite dangerous to an acceptable state.
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There is no defence. Just different opinions. I think what Max Factor and partly me tries to say that way we play ED we just don't feel grind, because we are avoiding that feeling as best we can, stopping before game becomes tedious.
To be fair, I am with you to make gameplay loops more interesting - I am always welcome that. No, ED is no perfect. Some gameplay loops feel rewarding for me as RP person, but some make me desire more.
However I am splitting off grind discussion there. Everything done repetitively after some time feels grind. That's our human nature. Said that, extending gameplay will allow to counter that feeling and that's why I see Q4 update as welcoming news.
Also I think way NMS push players to seek out stuff at the beginning is misrepresentation issue. I understand idea, but way it represents urgency is off. That hasn't changed for NEXT. Anyway, that's offtopic territory.
Rafe Zetter
Banned
Well no - but far as I can see there's no specific rule for how "proof" of facts needs to be presented when counterclaiming (and if there were you'd have already thrown out a link), so without another version to abide by, I chose to use the overriding legal requirements of the country in which I reside, and more importantly THE COMPANY WHO OWNS THE GAME resides.
Nothing else is relevant in this regard because FDev have not made any clear statement to such effect that I am aware of for this specific situation.
Besides which, You flaunt the rules and laws of the land at your peril - they will trump your forums rules and company EULA every single time.
That's not a threat - just a factual statement - if you don't beleive me ask DB, as he's already been on the wrong end of such an attempt when filing papers to companies house.
I'm not challenging your statement of "our house, our rules" but when it comes to legal realities, my statement is true, he (the other poster who keeps sayign I'm wrong) is the one who has to prove I'm wrong when I have shown information that has solid basis in facts.
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It's called taking advantage of the content I enjoy doing. I am not going to do stuff which I find boring and not fun just because it's in the game especially when you don't need to do it.
I don't understand why people continuously do something they don't enjoy when they don't need to just because it's in the game.
Most games are all about progression and NMS is just like that.
ED is all about choice. Deciding to never come out of your sidewinder is a completely valid choice in ED.
Some people just can't get their heads around that.
As to improving gameplay in ED I am all up for that. I am not blind to its issues.
Was there really any need to be so unpleasent?
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You need to chill. In point of fact I did no such thing, you accused me of stating your figures were incorrect and I for some reason took up the argument, possibly because of your attitude.
Allow me to add some perspective here: I may have fought the Anjanath 10 times to get enough teeth to make an armor set, but in the end I: a) felt that time was partially my fault through deaths from mistakes and as I realized those drops were more under my control through breaking it's face halfway through my grind, b) felt that I was being rewarded as my attempts to break it's face were working better and better with practice and giving more drops and c) the encounters were kept from being more stale through matchmaking with randoms, differing tools to do the job and punishment for being complacent.
It's a grind system that finds ways to reward through knowledge, skilled execution and cooperation continuously. Elite's gathering mechanics generally don't do that. That's where I find room for criticism lies. Well, that and I feel the raw number of different mats is generally a means of obfuscation, but that's another topic.
But generally that's where I'm coming from.
The issue arises from where content you would enjoy is hidden behind content you don't enjoy. I didn't particularly enjoy ranking save the feeling of irony in grinding through it being orders of magnitude faster than my earlier "proper" attempts (1 week in Zibal running massacres: 15% > 25% Post commander, 3 hours loop grinding: 25% Post commander > 4% Rear Admiral). But the Corvette I'm so far enjoying.
What you're suggesting seems to be that being able to act in a sidewinder invalidates wanting a corvette. I fundamentally disagree.
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Rafe Zetter
Banned
now go to his next post where he retracts his statement.
this was in direct repsonse to my reply that set him straight.
Sole Hunter
Banned
someone better call Saul right now.
Rafe Zetter
Banned
dont make me do a post showing where you repeatedly claim I'm wrong while providing NOTHING in the way of evidence that I'm wrong, even when faced with SIX WEBSITES that says I'm right including one, the Financial Times that is relied upon the world over for its FACTUAL ACCURACY.
even then when shown WHERE I got my information from, you did nothing to show that this information being presented to you was wrong.
oh very well......
you were saying?
you gotta love it when people try to change tack and claim they didn't say what they said - on a forum that records EVERYTHING THEY SAY, and can be cut / pasted back at them.
I think you've just invalidated pretty much everything you just said in the last 4 pages.
Checkmate. That'll be £20.
Next player please.
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I'm waiting...
Look I'm an ED fan and absolutely see that ED and NMS are two different kind of games but.....
Al those things you opt as choices shouldn't be choices based on wether you want to grind or not.
No you don't have to grind in ED, I certainly don't, but that excludes me from enjoying quite a number of game items, that is not good in my book.
The ability to choose not to be engaged with the Guardian items is based on the unwillingness to grind, is that a good game mechanism?
Personaly I feel, for a long time already, that the effort vs reward in ED is dramatically out of balance.
Way to much repetitive effort goes in to little reward.
The main reward in ED is credits, credits that can be spent on only one thing, ships.
The way I see it, NMS offers a far larger range of reward, ships, suit upgrades, tools and upgrades, bases, capital ships, etc.
NMS doesn't shy grinding but the rewards are so much more versatile and engaging.
I truly hope that ED Q4 will change at least that much in the game so players will find more satisfaction in playing, a better functioning effort vs reward system.
Exploration right now is a laughable situation where you will have to depend on the eyeball mk1 90% of the time.
My hope is that Q4 will change that using probes etc. resulting in a much more enjoyable effort vs reward system.
Just to name an example.
Reward isn't defined only by what you gain in credits, ships, weapons, etc. but also by enjoyable gameplay, something that is quite lacking in ED at the moment.
To many rewards are gained by to much repitive and unimaginative effort right now.
Just my humble opinion.
My major issue with this is that I haven't seen 'skill rewards' done well in open world games. Skill that can be uniquely identified as yours. ED one of big skills is knowledge....which gets easily defeated by sheets and wiki. It's a tricky thing to get correct. However I think things are improved since Engineers 2.0.
That's a problem in general with open world games. If you don't like parts of it and try to force your way trough the game, you will feel game pushing back. That's why there's certain love/hate towards such games, including ED. Again, tricky balancing act...especially in multiplayer setting.
It is almost freaky how different game feels and how progress feel faster when you *don't* try to aim for things in ED (I tried to 'get ships/stuff' strategy around Horizons launch). Must be some lesson there about human nature.
I am not disputing any of that. As this thread is about NMS and ED I just think it's important to show then difference between the two and the reason why I preferred ED over NMS.
I know ED is far from perfect and needs a lot of improvement to some of the gameplay loops.
My experience was the opposite. My tool set started to feel stagnant during times in which I gave up on expanding it. With progress being the only expansion left into areas I'd been avoiding I wound up ragequitting. I'm only back because new tools were added to the game that I don't have to grind through. Which gave me a second wind of sorts for the one that I did. And even ten the goal only became palpable through compressing it as much as possible. But now I'm free. I can just go and do whatever. Maybe come back and engineer a bit as time allows. Whatever. The UCS Dragon is going on a trip.
Rafe Zetter
Banned
you don't pay attention very well do you?
That is YOU saying that in reply to one of my posts - in my other post just above your reply #266
You proved yourself wrong, by your own words - "hoisted by your own petard" (you'll prolly have to look that up).
I'm going to stop now and play NMS, by the time I come back from making a coffee I'll have already forgotten this encounter - I've had better.
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