No Single Player Offline Mode then? [Part 2]

[Nicholas van Rijn]

No, that was never proposed, on the cards, or even desired.

Some purposes of an offline mode are:

1) To be able to pause the game at any point & the universe stops
2) To be able to save the game at any point, come back to it two weeks later, and it still be in the same time & space.
3) To be able to play where there is poor or no internet.
4) To be able to play when the servers go dark.
5) To be able to forward plan when you can't be online 24/7.

Those are five of the positives. It also avoids a number of negatives, such as:

1) Galaxy moves on without you.
2) Your game can be affected by idiots or people who can afford the time to play the game more than you.
3) You can get ganked or smack talked by idiots.

Now, out of those, only ONE of those is covered by SOLO-ONLINE (i.e. what we've got, what we've had since the start of beta, etc). For everything else, you need OFFLINE.

I add to this good list, all true and all too real, another offline-only feature: modding freedom.
There're games that live on their extreme moddability and the rich community ecosystem that ensue.
Even if it's more than 12 years old, I still keep a copy of NWN installed to play it from time to time, thanks to the enormous amount of mods that were produced.
I bought and re-bought it in various formats 4 times, the last to buy the DRM-free all-in-one version from GOG.
Same for NWN2. Most Bethesda games. The Civilization series. *Oolite*.

There were plenty of reasons for wanting an offline mode... Oh, well... moving on... see ya to all!

 

[mbpoblet]

Agreed. The changes from the DDF (and other feedback) have made the game better. The decision to remove offline is nothing to do with the DDF - can we leave the conspiracy theories out of the discussion? There was no sinister plot.

Michael

It's either "conspiracy" or incompetence.

Personally, I find incompetence quite harder to believe, but granted, I might just be overestimating Frontier.

 

[Dejay]

Not sure if this has been asked and answered yet, but will solo online have a PAUSE FUNCTION?

I find that immensely important and relaxing so that I don't have to wait 5 minutes until docking or even waiting until supercruise exit / enter etc. I want to hit pause and check my coffee, go to the toilet relieve myself of my natural needs in peaceand not be worried that something happens to my progress.

Will there be a pause function?

 

[Zieman]

<SNIP>

Is that left pinkie toe connection stable? Or do you get "server disconnected, "bad transaction" etc. messages every five minutes?


- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Not sure if this has been asked and answered yet, but will solo online have a PAUSE FUNCTION?

I find that immensely important and relaxing so that I don't have to wait 5 minutes until docking or even waiting until supercruise exit / enter etc. I want to hit pause and check my coffee, go to the toilet relieve myself of my natural needs in peaceand not be worried that something happens to my progress.

Will there be a pause function?

In a way there is one already. Hit ESC and choose either "save and exit" or "save and exit to main menu". Doing so will leave your ship vulnerable for a few seconds though, or that's how it is planned IIRC.

 

[jhondidfool]

Is that left pinkie toe connection stable? Or do you get "server disconnected, "bad transaction" etc. messages every five minutes?

Depends on the magnetosphere. It's a bit sensitive. But I could still play. I get server disconnection even at my home, ISPs in Spain are trash. But we manage.
And yes, I have also played this game in a mountain cabin with a thethered phone on 3G 25 km away from the closest wifi hotspot or internet hub. If you don't play the game it's because you choose not to.

 

[Dizzy B High]

Well i've read people being bitter there is no longer going to be an offline mode.

I just dont get it, the devs and Mr Braben say that they have decided to dump it because they feel it will be empty.

So be it have the offline mode and let it be empty, people who don't have the internet connection can play in an empty world, they are on their own their actions won't affect anything.
If they want the galaxy to be un-empty and constantly changing they can play in online mode.

At least give them the choice to play offline, knowing its going to be limited, surely thats their choice.

how about having an offline mode, where they can manually update the galaxy when they have the connection, and that galaxy is used until they do the next manual update.

Surely in this day and age thats possible?

 

[Ventura]

<SNIP>

Taxi drivers pick you up, take you to a destination, and then you pay.

Frontier taxi drivers pick you up, charge you immediately, take you to the suburb next to your destination, drop you off with about a 15-minute walk ahead of you, and refuse to refund you because you spent time in the taxi.

Okay, that's not quite how it is, but hey, you went there. I couldn't resist.

Get a grip. The game is still here. 99.999% chances are you're not going to play it because you CHOOSE not to (10kbps bandwith. My left pinkie toe has more bandwith in the middle of the desert of Monegros). CHOOSING not to play a game does not entitle you to neither of the following:
A) a refund.
B) try to ruin other player's experience.
C) throwing legal (and not so legal) threats at the devs.
Have a nice day

I'm going away for Christmas and I won't have the internet where I'm going. I'm not choosing to not play the game, I flat out won't be able to.

Ignorance is not an excuse, but hey, maybe I could take your left pinkie toe with me, and perhaps try to bounce a signal off of it or something. *sigh*

 

[DigitalDuck]

I'll second that.

And the quote to which you're replying seems worthy of my friends words, which I posted on the last thread, sent to me via e-mail and pasted here with his permission:

I don't know why you're calling me a Frontier apologist when I'm probably more annoyed with them than you are, and was actually explaining why one of the problems of a separate offline mode isn't actually a problem at all.

I wish people would read, even if it was just the matter of a few posts onwards where I explain my position, get a "sorry, it was a misunderstanding" from Juniper, and then have a quick chat.

I'll assume it was a misunderstanding for now, but I'm getting tired of being accused of having opinions I don't have.

<SNIP>

Question: Am I choosing not to play it?

 

[Skizomeuh]

It's either "conspiracy" or incompetence.

Personally, I find incompetence quite harder to believe, but granted, I might just be overestimating Frontier.

Classy...

I've been given infraction for far less than that.

 

[Ventura]

how about having an offline mode, where they can manually update the galaxy when they have the connection, and that galaxy is used until they do the next manual update.

Surely in this day and age thats possible?

Anything's possible, the truth of the matter is that they just care less about the feature than those of us that they deceived.

 

[Wolframium]

<SNIP>)

First, we have absolutely no interest in ruining yours or anyone else's experience, none at all. We are not spiteful little Grinches trying to ruin your merry Christmas, we are just disappointed customers who, thirty days before launch (and over a year after we paid), were told that we would no longer be able to play the game that we were repeatedly reassured we would get, but a different one that we have no interest in.

About our "choosing" not to play: suppose you went to a restaurant, ordered, say, a vegetarian pizza and were instead brought a pizza with some other topping which you have always found gross. According to your logic, you'd just eat it, correct? We were told the game would include a gaming mode which for many of us was the only gaming mode we were ever interested in. The difference may be negligible for you, but for us it's a deal breaker. The product they're giving us now is of no interest to some of us. How is that difficult to understand?

Honestly, how can so many people have such a hard time grasping such an elementary concept?

 

[jabokai]

Honestly, how can so many people have such a hard time grasping such an elementary concept?

We're moving into the age of Clevon faster than expected? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icmRCixQrx8

 

[Fasty]

Bravo Rafe Zetter. I hope David reads that.

 

[mbpoblet]

I know what procedural generation is and it's great for setting initial start conditions for a large arena - but once that has been seeded then you need to continually adjust it otherwise the whole universe will be inherently static outside of your little bubble

Not necessarily; you can procedurally generate an evolving dynamic galaxy simply by factoring in some kind of counter (based on the date or total play time, for instance), and you can even add some non-seeded randomness in there to spice things up.

In the link -c-s- gave you (thanks, -c-s- ) I propose an oversimplified example of how that kind of "procedurally generated dynamism" could work.

In any case, though, the total "effect" of players on the galaxy (and thus the needed processing power, memory, and storage space) is not dependant on the size of the galaxy (unless the design model is seriously borked); it's dependant on the number of players, and the amount of "effect" the average player has on the galaxy (in absolute terms; in relative terms - percentage - the actual effect tends to zero, as players are vastly outnumbered by stars).

In the particular case of an hypothetical offline mode the number of players is one (or maybe two, if you allow split screen), which should be pretty easy to handle in a regular PC (heck, private servers for LAN or small private online group play should be fine, too).

 

[jabokai]

Bravo. I hope David reads this.

He replied in it yesterday.

 

[Megalon]

i think this is the best decision FD has made to date. Offline mode only ever seemed logical if it could be done with little to no effort.

 

[Adept]

Online does not require any more money from you than you already put in. We are not forced to play together. Those 12 year olds are isolated from you. I understand the distaste, but this does really work.

The beauty of the f2p model (in games where it's done well) is that it lets a lot of people play, and those with money and interest finance the whole thing. When done well, they feel happy and well compensated, and the playing experience of those playing for free does not suffer.

World of Tanks is a really high quality triple-A title. I have friends who have played it for years, reached the highest tiers, and never put in any money. I have friends who like to collect premium tanks and cosmetic items, and have put in hundreds of euros. Both are very happy with the game. Personally I'm in the middle. I don't spend money in general, but I got a few premium tanks to show my appreciation (only fair to pay some after hundreds of hours of play), but I feel no need to hurry my progression by buying premium account time.

If Elite had a subscription model, I would feel pressured to put in game time... to get value for my money. Now, I have payed for access, and I can play when I have time and feel like it. I'm not competing with anybody, I'm enjoying a roleplaying experience of being a galactic dpace trucker, bounty hunter and a general white hat (I suck at playing baddies).

The thing is, the really heinous part of online-only play (and a chief reason why it "outrages" me and I want no part of it) is that it does nothing but monetises the player base.

So, perhaps subscriptions are a dying trend, and other ways can be found to continue to make money out of people while they play the game they've rented. The EULA is quite enlightening in that regard, as others have already pointed out. Subscriptions are only one possible outcome of this.

I admit I'm not particularly au fait with all the vagaries of online game financing, because quite frankly, I don't play them so I don't care. I'm a working single parent, and I've no interest in sharing my precious gaming time with the great unwashed. I've been there (EVE, EQ, LOTR, ST: O) and been stung enough times & had my gaming experience ruined by 12 year olds with too many hormones running around their innards to know that it's just not for me.

That's why offline was such a critical component of E: D for me, and why I plumped my money down on it... also why I feel badly let down by Frontier's 180. It felt (and still does) like a punch in the face. Solo-online is not a substitute, any more than a slug is a replacement for a Norwegian Blue.

 

[DigitalDuck]

If Elite had a subscription model, I would feel pressured to put in game time... to get value for my money. Now, I have payed for access, and I can play when I have time and feel like it. I'm not competing with anybody, I'm enjoying a roleplaying experience of being a galactic dpace trucker, bounty hunter and a general white hat (I suck at playing baddies).

That's fine, until all you ever see on your screen is:

| DOCKING REQUEST SENT |
BEAGLE 2 LANDING: DOCKING CLEARANCE TIMED OUT. RESEND REQUEST.
| DOCKING REQUEST SENT |
BEAGLE 2 LANDING: DOCKING CLEARANCE TIMED OUT. RESEND REQUEST.
| DOCKING REQUEST SENT |
BEAGLE 2 LANDING: DOCKING CLEARANCE TIMED OUT. RESEND REQUEST.
| DOCKING REQUEST SENT |
BEAGLE 2 LANDING: DOCKING CLEARANCE TIMED OUT. RESEND REQUEST.
| DOCKING REQUEST SENT |
BEAGLE 2 LANDING: DOCKING CLEARANCE TIMED OUT. RESEND REQUEST.

Which is an accurate summation of my entire Beta experience.

 

[Ventura]

i think this is the best decision FD has made to date. Offline mode only ever seemed logical if it could be done with little to no effort.

<Insert feature you particularly wanted> probably didn't mean all that much to me either, but hey, thanks for stopping by.

 

[cerberuss]

Complaining about people complaining................Numpty

There are a lot of them around. You would think they would be off playing the game or something. Seems they are getting more entertainment from trolling though.