No Single Player Offline Mode then? [Part 2]

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Now now, I haven't made this a personal attack ever, don't you start.
Keep it civil.

You should know better ;) In no way did I attack you. My statement would stand by itself if you, the person, was replaced with anyone else at random exhibiting the same mentality.
 
It is very simple. When you make a pledge on a Kickstarter project, you are funding a development "proposal", NOT buying an existing product off of some shelf. You should consider any pledge you make as a contribution. If you want a sure thing, then you should wait until the final game ships and make your decision based upon actual features available at that time. You funded a dream. Dreams don't always come out the way you expect.

WRONG!

Kickstarters ToS section 4

"When a project is successfully funded, the creator must complete the project and fulfill each reward. Once a creator has done so, they’ve satisfied their obligation to their backers.

Throughout the process, creators owe their backers a high standard of effort, honest communication, and a dedication to bringing the project to life. At the same time, backers must understand that when they back a project, they’re helping to create something new — not ordering something that already exists. There may be changes or delays, and there’s a chance something could happen that prevents the creator from being able to finish the project as promised.

If a creator is unable to complete their project and fulfill rewards, they’ve failed to live up to the basic obligations of this agreement. To right this, they must make every reasonable effort to find another way of bringing the project to the best possible conclusion for backers. A creator in this position has only remedied the situation and met their obligations to backers if:

ETC...ETC...ETC...
 
You should know better ;) In no way did I attack you. My statement would stand by itself if you, the person, was replaced with anyone else at random exhibiting the same mentality.

Well, I admit I do have a Random Mentality, and I can't blame my Stroke for that.
 
WRONG!

Kickstarters ToS section 4
Yet again you prove yourself to be terrible at reading small print.

"For projects that launched before October 19, 2014, please see our previous Terms of Use."

Edit: also there's nothing within the rewards section about offline mode.
 
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Yet again you prove yourself to be terrible at reading small print.

"For projects that launched before October 19, 2014, please see our previous Terms of Use."

Edit: also there's nothing within the rewards section about offline mode.
You seem highly focussed on small print - do you design such despicable cop out clauses as they always embody? Have you fallen foul of such clauses? Or are you just a worshipper of nitpicking legalese?
 
It is very simple. When you make a pledge on a Kickstarter project, you are funding a development "proposal", NOT buying an existing product off of some shelf.

I find it just hilarious that the same people that are accusing Frontier of going back on their word are trying to go back on their pledge just as the beta finishes. It's a pledge people! it's your PROMISE to pay.

For the beta, which you got.

We have to take them seriously though, because they are SO offended at the offline thing that happened.
 
You seem highly focussed on small print - do you design such despicable cop out clauses as they always embody? Have you fallen foul of such clauses? Or are you just a worshipper of nitpicking legalese?

If someone quotes a swathe of irrelevant text that still doesn't corroborate their point of view I feel I should point it out.

Unless you're attempting a subtle ad hominem my background is inconsequential to the discussion (but no, I don't work in law)
 
I find it just hilarious that the same people that are accusing Frontier of going back on their word are trying to go back on their pledge just as the beta finishes. It's a pledge people! it's your PROMISE to pay.

For the beta, which you got.

We have to take them seriously though, because they are SO offended at the offline thing that happened.
Why not?
We have to take you seriously so turnabout is fair enough.
 
So my buddy sends me this info:

Q: Could the server code be released publicly some day when the servers are shut down?
A: Yes. This is something we would do if for whatever reason we cannot keep the game going.

And he says to me:

So there’s the answer to server shutdown. We can download the entire game with the server code and play single player forever.

And I reply:

You don't really trust known and proven liars to keep their word, do you? There are a myriad of reasons why they might not release the code if and when the servers are down. How about proprietary rights embedded in their code? Third party scripting and such? What if the servers are shut down here but the game is still big in, say, Korea and a secondary company takes the reigns to keep it running there? Do you think that company would want a bunch of free servers floating around? This is exactly what happened with Hellgate London (At least I can still keep playing Hellgate offline because that company was good enough to keep their promise about an offline SP mode). FD are just 'ing you again. A company that promises refunds for unhappy customers and then weasels their way out of it the NEXT DAY can't be trusted on anything. A company that promises over and over again that they'll have dedicated offline single player, takes real investor money based in part on that promise, and then pulls it at the eleventh hour can't be trusted on ANYTHING, least of all some hypothetical scenario about an event surrounding their demise. Do you really think, as these developers are shuffling around to sell off company assets, scrambling onto monster-dot-com to find new jobs, panicking because of their loss of income, that their first priority or any priority at all will be: "Hold on, we have to release the server code to the public like we promised back in November 2014!" And do you think releasing this code will be as simple as pressing a button? Of course not. Preparing it for public consumption would be a huge investment of time and money in its own right, and certainly not something that a bankrupt company would ever do.

In the immortal words of G. Dubya Bush: "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice...uhh. You fool me you can't get fooled again!"
 
If someone quotes a swathe of irrelevant text that still doesn't corroborate their point of view I feel I should point it out.

Unless you're attempting a subtle ad hominem my background is inconsequential to the discussion (but no, I don't work in law)

No not an insidious suggestion at all, I just find your 'compatability' with small print far from the human average compatability. Most people regard it as an anethema but you seem to revel in it.
 
I find it just hilarious that the same people that are accusing Frontier of going back on their word are trying to go back on their pledge just as the beta finishes. It's a pledge people! it's your PROMISE to pay.

For the beta, which you got.

We have to take them seriously though, because they are SO offended at the offline thing that happened.
And FDEV had nothing to do with the timing...? :rolleyes:
 
Ha! don't tell me you have! you're just trying to charm me now you old shyster you!
Ya can catch more fish with worms that battered bread my old dad used to say.

Baiting and catching are two different things, many a slip twixt the cup and the lip - the list is endless and charm is certainly not a commodity I am overburdened with ;)
 
It's not about what has been said but that people want to be able to express that they are not happy with "their" game being butchered without so much as an apology.

Without alternative, too, except for other games.

Funny fact about this Game.....
"Multiplayer is not planned for the first release. We would love to pursue the option when the time is right, but our primary focus for now is on exploring gameplay concepts and building a fun, deep game. We feel that dealing with networking at this stage would distract from that focus. That being said, don't rule out the possibility of a Limit Theory Online in the future!"
 
It's not about what has been said but that people want to be able to express that they are not happy with "their" game being butchered without so much as an apology.

Without alternative, too, except for other games.
Agree Gazz and I will indeed be looking closley at LT closer to release, it looks fine but with the bitter disappointment and disillusionment of the last few days I will be reserving final judgement.
 
No not an insidious suggestion at all, I just find your 'compatability' with small print far from the human average compatability. Most people regard it as an anethema but you seem to revel in it.

If you must know, my father was a lawyer and my brother dyslexic. Between the two of them I found a great interest in the finesses of the English language and have gained more than a basic ability to read and digest legalese. From an ethical and moral position I completely agree that FD should have given goodwill gesture refunds (and even stated so in one of my first posts on the matter https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=58789&p=1017153&viewfull=1#post1017153) BUT that also means that they have to look at it from a business viewpoint.

I'm just tired of people trying to weasel their way out of not understanding what Kickstarter was/is before they decided to pledge exorbitant amounts of money to someone through it.

Caveat emptor.
 
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