No Single Player Offline Mode then? [Part 2]

[Tiggo]

For so few, that was an awfully big thread that just recently ran its course, wouldn't you agree?

In any case, it's making me feel all warm and fuzzy that you've got our backs on this one. Why anyone would prefer the single player experience with top blokes like you running around sure beats the hell out of me

there is singleplayer its just not 100% offline. and if you count the USERS in here, detract those having a different opinion, you will get hardly to 100. ^^

 

[MikeyTT]

You pretty much echoed my sentiment from about 300 pages back ;-)
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The living galaxy sounds interesting, but if you're not constantly living in it then when you log in a week or so later it's all changed. The immersion level that's been discussed previously seems far less compelling somehow.
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I for one am not after a refund, I'll see how the reality of the always online mode is in action, even though I was hoping to be disconnected and flying around my hotel room as I roam the country (Currently I have Diablo 2 for that). But morally I think FDev should be refunding anyone at this stage if they feel the offline exclusion is a deal breaker for them. It would show them in a really great light in the press.
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For me now FDev still haven't made a clear statement around the future plans. There is still misinformation circulating. I feel they need to stand up and state that either a) there will never be an offline mode, b) we will deliver it in some guise in the future, or c) that they will further investigate offline post the launch date. Maybe's and possibly's are not really helping particularly.
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Actually I think it's a good idea I just didn't want to be forced to play that way all the time for a number of reasons listed below, I planned on having seperate off line and online single player commanders to try it out:

1) I have a busy job and a young son, I get very little gaming time and I need to be able to play when I get the chance regardless of if Frontier have planned server maintinance or are having server capacity issues, I am not reassured about this as every single online game I've ever played has suffered these issues.

2.) I have as I've said very little play time any more, when I do get the chance I was most looking forward to playing as an explorer, since the game syncs exploration data with the living galaxy in online single player (the only single player mode now) and given that I assume we will all start close together in the Galaxy or players would never find or influence each other I'm unlikley to ever find a system the 24/7 early 20's players haven't beaten me to.

3.) Despite assurance of server archiving should Frontier adandon the game or shutdown in the future it does give me concerns if the game will be playable in 10 years time, add to this my concerns about there plans to support the servers through Microtransactions and how this will impact the game and their ability to maintain the servers. Will they introduce subscriptions or make Micro Transactions so necassary it becomes pay to play like many Android and Apple games.

4.) The other reason for an off-line mode modability, you talk about the Elder Scrolls the best thing about those games they gave you your own world you could mod to your hearts content without having to worry about impact on fairness or other players the online only model would make signifigant modding impossible as opposed to only possible in your off-line Elite universe.

The living galaxy model sounds interesting as I say I don't hate it very happy to give it a try but also badly wanted the off-line mode as an alternative and wouldn't have backed it if I'd know that wouldn't be an option because of bad experiences with basicly every online only game I've ever played.

My biggest issue as someone who will only be able to play infrequently, I don't feel the evolving galaxy on-line only model will fit me very well, so you may not care and feel it doesn't matter but to many of us it is I assure you a very big deal that the promise off-line mode has been dropped and has very much influence my decision not to spend any more money with Frontier in the future.

 

[Turjan]

Because all I see on the forum at the mo is people moaning about something that to be fair is not that big an issue for the majority of us.

If all you see is people moaning about an issue that's not that big, then perhaps you've missed the logical contradiction in that statement...

I suspect that most who are complaining are just bored with the game as they have been playing it for months and now see a slim opportunity to steal their money back through a refund and others are just arguing for the sake of arguing.

For all I know, that may true. It may be completely untrue too. But either way, you (or I or indeed anyone without a blue-bordered avatar) cannot control what such people post. All you can do is control what you yourself post...and by posting here, you're simply adding to a problem you perceive as going on past its sell by date. My advice to you (and to anyone else who feels the debate has gone on long enough) is simply not to post about it any more. Posting merely adds to the volume of posts, thereby keeping the topic alive - which is something you've said you don't believe is necessary.

Then there are the genuine minority lost in the middle of it all.

Indeed. And these are people who are feeling emotionally bruised right now, and are (understandably) liable to lash out at anything. It's bad enough they have to deal with trolls and high moral horsemen, but when an obviously rational and well-meaning poster such as yourself then also pitches in with a comment about moaning, the genuine minority will (again understandably) likely lash out at you too, thereby creating the opposite effect to the one you intended. You meant no harm, but you may receive harm in return because emotions are stil running so high

It's like kicking a hornets' nest to stop the buzzing inside and then saying "Why are they attacking my foot now?"

If you can play E-D happily and offline isn't/wasn't ever an issue for you, then the best thing you can do right now is just walk away from this whole topic and leave those who were affected to continue the discussion for as long as they feel the need to.

No storm can last forever, but shouting at the lightning won't make it pass any quicker

 

[Zuikaku]

Although there are plenty of games (Skyrim, for instance) that have neither and still make a nice amount of money just by being good enough to convince hordes of people to buy the game.

We were hoping FDs are going to make that kind of the game. We were hoping that by helping them to fund the game, they will not make the game that brings the highest income , but the game that will offer unforgetting experience to all of their fans. Not just the ones that share the "vision". We all thought that this is the essence of crowdfunding.

 

[trusteft]

I am curious, why do some people post here to basically attack those who want an offline version? Since you are getting the game you wanted, why do you attack those who don't?
Are you guys fanboys, trolls or just working for FD? I am asking this last question since I don't know anyone here since I am brand new on this forum.

 

[Elitist]

Just to add my brief response to this farce :

No 100% offline mode = No Sale

 

[Krait_79]

Can't help wondering how much whining there would have been if they did release offline seeing as Frontier said how substandard it would have been!

 

[DaveS1]

there is singleplayer its just not 100% offline. and if you count the USERS in here, detract those having a different opinion, you will get hardly to 100. ^^

Actually it's essentially 0% offline, so close but no cigar.

We did a count on the last thread and there were 1086 unique posters, unless >90% of them were supporting FD in abandoning offline you are wrong.

 

[Ventura]

there is singleplayer its just not 100% offline. and if you count the USERS in here, detract those having a different opinion, you will get hardly to 100. ^^

Doesn't sound like a lot, but if you factor in that the vast majority will be lurking, rather than posting, and then also add to that a multitude of other users in other forums (such as Bluesnews, where I have come from), and in a flash, that number's rocketing up.

Ask yourself, if we really are just a drop in the ocean, why wouldn't they just give us our refunds, and then we go our merry way? No, there are far more than you (or even I, for that matter) are aware.

 

[Tiggo]

Doesn't sound like a lot, but if you factor in that the vast majority will be lurking, rather than posting, and then also add to that a multitude of other users in other forums (such as Bluesnews, where I have come from), and in a flash, that number's rocketing up.

Ask yourself, if we really are just a drop in the ocean, why wouldn't they just give us our refunds, and then we go our merry way? No, there are far more than you (or even I, for that matter) are aware.

there could just be legal issues, FD is a venture company, im not sure how free they are in these decissions.

And dont get me wrong: I think refunds SHOULD be given.

 

[Michael Brookes]

Nope, not enough. He made a promise, broke it and tried to weasel out the breaking - he should ideally deliver what he promised or at the very least offer refunds to those that want them. he didn't apologise for dropping offline, he apologised for getting caught.

Why is it an either / or? None of us that want offline have demanded no online, or demanded online be cut down or hampered, we have simply asked for what we were promised.

If you think I am suffering from rage and anger then you clearly have no concept of empathy. That you suggest I play online and gun for you suggests a lot more about you than it does about me. I have no desire to ruin anyone else's experience. You are gloating and strutting because FD have ruined ours.

We've also added a number of features and changed others. This is the nature of development. Did we want to drop offline support? No - we know this is an emotive feature for some players. We spent time and effort to try and find a workable solution which meant that the news was released later than we would have liked.

Michael

 

[Zuikaku]

Can't help wondering how much whining there would have been if they did release offline seeing as Frontier said how substandard it would have been!

Then they could say:

"We are known for listening to what the players want. We have warned you that offline mode is not going to give you dynamic experience, but you insisted. But you may try online experience which is really great."

 

[bsolar]

there is singleplayer its just not 100% offline. and if you count the USERS in here, detract those having a different opinion, you will get hardly to 100. ^^

It's pretty clear the users wanting offline are not an insignificant number, otherwise Frontier would have granted refunds and with very minimal costs defused the whole situation immediately.

 

[Zuikaku]

We've also added a number of features and changed others. This is the nature of development. Did we want to drop offline support? No - we know this is an emotive feature for some players. We spent time and effort to try and find a workable solution which meant that the news was released later than we would have liked.

Michael

No, this is not a feature. This is a way the game can be played. The lack of offline SP changes the nature of game itself! And in latest newsletter you stated that it was rather design decision and not technical.

 

[Polared]

In an age and era of 'online gaming' of which covers so many games of today spanning a decade. I am actually quite taken back by the fact that some will just give it all up over no 'offline' mode. Already, we can play in solo mode and Mr Braben has already stated that the server code would be released should things go terribly wrong. If even third world countries can manage an avarage good internet speed and fully fit to run Elite: Dangerous. I fail to see how so many in westernized countries cannot.

Shok.

still amazed some people really don't or just don't want to understand, solo online is in no way comparable to single player offline.

also, with regard to what was said about the server code, Mr Braben was also saying that there would be single player offline version of the game for almost two years up until late last week, so his saying that something might happen in the future really doesn't fill me with much confidence nor does it reassure me in anyway. he hasn't said how it would be done, he hasn't said who would have control of code, so really he hasn't said anything other than a vague, one day, maybe! besides still doesn't address the single player offline either does it!

 

[XPhiler]

The 10kbps thing says it all.

This is SimCity all over again.

Let's hope we can reverse engineer private servers soon.

Not trying to imply anything just I've seen the 10kbps argument being used to imply the server isnt doing anything and it really doesnt. What is transmitted between the server and the client has no baring on the work load of the server itself.

For example, lets assume for the sake of argument there was a search function that allowed to search the cheapest gold available close to you for sale. Your client transmits the query to the server. You can do that with just 2 bytes no problem (1 byte for the query type, 1 byte for the item you want). The Server would then need to search every single station in each of the 4 billion star systems. It would also need to query distance of each of the stars. Find the cheapest option and then go through all the list of distances to find the closest. This operation needs to be fast no one would like their client to spend something like 5 minutes waiting for a reply so all this data would need to be stored into memory. 4 billion possible markets * 80 commodities = 320gb + 4gb of star distances = 324gb total ram required by the server. Something that clearly cannot be handled by a home pc. Anyhow. The server does the look up and sends you the star system in question you have to go and the price it is there another 2 bytes.

So in this completely fictitious scenario 4 bytes were transmitted to and from the server but an operation was performed by the server that no home PC could handle in a timely manner.

Again I used functionality that doesnt exist on purpose cause my purpose here is not to say what is true or what isnt just to correct the statement that because only 10kbps is being transmitted it means the server isnt doing anything special. There just isnt a relationship between data transmitted and server processing really.

 

[Michael Brookes]

We were hoping FDs are going to make that kind of the game. We were hoping that by helping them to fund the game, they will not make the game that brings the highest income , but the game that will offer unforgetting experience to all of their fans. Not just the ones that share the "vision". We all thought that this is the essence of crowdfunding.

We've always been clear that the game is first and foremost a multiplayer game. Multiplayer and the evolving galaxy were the two core pillars that set this as something new and special for the Elite series. Without those there wouldn't have been a new game at all. Back in the kickstarter we believed that we could support offline play as well, but as development progressed the scope expanded considerably and more of the game had to held online for it to work as intended. We've constantly examined how we could hive off some of that work in a separate offline mode but that has proven not be the case.

Michael

 

[Shoklar]

Just to add my brief response to this farce :

No 100% offline mode = No Sale

I think they already knew that when they officially announced they'd be no offline mode.

Moderators, is there any reason why threads like this are still allowed and are not closed? Since there has been an 'official' response from Frontier Developments over this issue, and that dragging on a dead horse really isn't going to help.

Shok.

 

[Ecks Theory]

You backed the games development as did I. So it fell short of your expectations. You can still play singleplayer mode. The only thing that changed is the 10kbps connection and a sense of a living galaxy, sorry if you find that hard to accept and it displeases you.

Shok.

Actually no, I perordered a finished product. A product that is no longer being made. Sorry you cant seem to grasp the basic logic of false advertising. The only thing that has changed is the only thing I was interested in.

 

[Michael Brookes]

No, this is not a feature. This is a way the game can be played. The lack of offline SP changes the nature of game itself! And in latest newsletter you stated that it was rather design decision and not technical.

That isn't the case, it removes a way of play that was ancillary to the game we pitched. We've been quite clear from the start that online play was the way the game was meant to played. However we did want to support offline play, but as already mentioned that hasn't proved possible. I completely understand for people affected that this isn't the decision they wanted to hear, but it was a choice we had to make.

Michael