No Single Player offline Mode then?

[CaptainKremmen]

Hi Michael,

I don't really want to refund unless I have to.

Could I ask for some FD input on this thread -

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=58838

regarding whether it is possible to host ED's servers somewhere geographically more convenient for a lot of your international players? I am dependent on a great deal of internet infrastructure to connect to ireland from eastern australia (saving a thought for people in western australia, which will be even worse), which often has heavy loss and latency issues.

I'm in Western Australia, and I don't have any issues. I'm not sure what your point is, to be honest, as ED clients don't actually do their "flying" based on realtime data from a server. It's peer-to-peer. The server locations don't seem to matter to my gameplay.

But that's not the point, as this is server stuff is all about Online mode... not the late, lamented Offline mode.

 

[Kayweg]

It does sort of dampen the old trust thing when a developer goes back on their word. You do tend to think 'What next?'

Funny old thing that "trust" business, eh ?
Built over years, destroyed in seconds.

And that is the REAL damage potentially done here.

 

[Michael Brookes]

Hi Michael

You were surely aware from as early in development as two years ago that offline mode was an important (and for some, essential) part of the game.

Why was it not taken into account from that point in every design decision & technical choice that was made, to allow for that? It's completely inexcusable that it wasn't.

This isn't a last minute request - it's been there as a core from the start, and serious money has changed hands as a result of what has been advertised for the last two years.

You might have intended for the best way to play being online only, but many people (including me) really do not care about online. They pledged high or bought the game precisely because it promised an offline mode.

I am trying very hard to be civil & not let my blood boil up again, but it is extremely hard... especially given the way this has been communicated to the backers without even the courtesy of an apology.

A refund of my £1000 or so would be out of the question I'm sure. I don't want a refund. I want to know why backers were misled when you had no intention of giving them what they pledged for from day one, as evidenced by the technical decisions made & the corner you appear to have painted yourselves into.

Thank you.

As I've mentioned elsewhere I understand the sentiment. We have put considerable time and effort to try and make this happen, but we've had to make this decision to make the game we set out to do. We would happily support offline play if it were possible for us to do so.

Michael

 

[Tim Wheatley]

1) Meaningless. People have purchased a retail pre-realease on the basis that there was going be an offline mode. They are entitled to a refund.
2) Yes it does. What's your point?
3) People are less likely to visit the beta forum than the general when evaluating whether or not to buy the game.
4) I'm serious. I'm not trolling.
5) I can't say whether David Braben is "in to" deceit on a day to day basis or not. I'm not accusing him personally. I'm accusing the organisation he represented in the newsletter.
6) As above
7) As above

They've offered refunds through the store. That isn't deceitful, IMHO. It sounds like they tried and had to make this extremely rough decision.

 

[Juniper]

I'd like to know, but I suspect Michael is the messenger coming on a forum because he cares, while unable to give answers to most of what he's being asked. I've been in the same position.

He is the Executive Producer of Elite: Dangerous.

Everything goes through him. All design decisions are ultimately his (and David's) responsibility.

Michael is not some uninformed lackey being put onto the forums to appease the masses - he has intimate knowledge of everything about the game, both client & server side... because that's his job.

 

[Wulfrune]

For me, one of the most important things is ED told me when I purchased the game that I could play the game offline. If you want to play against other players, more power to you, but that has no appeal for me. I've played MMORPG's for years starting with Ultima Online and for the last 10 years World of Warcraft and the one major factor that has spoilt these games for me from time to time is the PvP aspect of the games. I feel no urge to competitively enter into combat with anyone because; I have no desire to have my rear end handed to me on a plate by some kid, especially seeing as this game seems to be very labour orientated, it would be heartbreaking to have all ones work undone because some nasty, spiteful little griefer has got nothing better to do than make someone's life miserable. You know that happens in Online games, it will happen here. Do people want this game to become an EVE clone? Some probably will.... but I don't. It's all about personal choices, if you choose to PvP players in a game, then surely one should have the opposite choice for the sake of balance and fairness. In World of Warcraft, if you don't want to get involved with PVP, you have the chance to join a NON PvP server. Sadly, this seems not to be the case with ED, everyone might get thrown in to the same pot and the nastiest, most skilful players will succeed. All power to them, if that's what they want from their game, but I for one will not pay a penny of my money to be their whipping boy. So, I hope that the game gives me my refund I've asked for. And, if in the future they have a change of heart about Offline gaming, they can let me know and I'll gladly pay for the game again. Sadly, and I know that I'm no loss to anyone...... This game isn't for me..... BEFORE its even started

 

[ecgallagher]

As long as they start work on Elite: Galactic Edition about five years in.

or Elite: Andromeda

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

A refund of my £1000 or so would be out of the question I'm sure.

Why not ?

You backed a game for a particular feature that you were repeatedly assured would be in, even as far as 2014 July in magazines via interviews with DB, and that's no longer the case.

 

[Kicks]

1) Meaningless. People have purchased a retail pre-realease on the basis that there was going be an offline mode. They are entitled to a refund.
2) Yes it does. What's your point?
3) People are less likely to visit the beta forum than the general when evaluating whether or not to buy the game.
4) I'm serious. I'm not trolling.
5) I can't say whether David Braben is "in to" deceit on a day to day basis or not. I'm not accusing him personally. I'm accusing the organisation he represented in the newsletter.
6) As above
7) As above

1) Michael has said they can get a refund.. but yes, the game is still in Beta and yesterdays announcement is no different from other Beta announcements (with the exception it's an unfortunate one)
2) Us backers are here in the Beta Discussion Forum
3) On the contrary, I would imagine people wanting to make an informed purchase would check out the beta forums as a matter of priority and see what is being discussed. e.g., this
4) I'm not trolling either
5) As an extension of that, I'm pretty sure DBOBE wouldn't allow the company he represents to be deceitful. In fact, I'd guess he's just as disappointed.

Think we can drop 6 & 7 from future debate

 

[Steve50]

They've offered refunds through the store. That isn't deceitful, IMHO. It sounds like they tried and had to make this extremely rough decision.

Will my offline mate get a refund for the £700 he spent on new hardware JUST to play this game? I suspect not

 

[Tim Wheatley]

He is the Executive Producer of Elite: Dangerous.

Everything goes through him. All design decisions are ultimately his (and David's) responsibility.

Michael is not some uninformed lackey being put onto the forums to appease the masses - he has intimate knowledge of everything about the game, both client & server side... because that's his job.

As a spokesperson, you get this kind of information from your developers and deliver bad news that actually often isn't your decision.

 

[PrometheusDarko]

1) Meaningless. People have purchased a retail pre-realease on the basis that there was going be an offline mode. They are entitled to a refund.
2) Yes it does. What's your point?
3) People are less likely to visit the beta forum than the general when evaluating whether or not to buy the game.
4) I'm serious. I'm not trolling.
5) I can't say whether David Braben is "in to" deceit on a day to day basis or not. I'm not accusing him personally. I'm accusing the organisation he represented in the newsletter.
6) As above
7) As above

1) Actually, up until recently, people have purchased into a Semi-Closed Beta for which the final game would be an additional reward at no additional cost.
2) See his point 3. That's his point.
3) However, this decision was made during the Beta testing period, and is still perfectly visible to everyone, no conspiracy here.
4) Not intentionally, no.
5) Honestly, I don't see how this is conspiratorial. The thread hasn't been locked or deleted, simply moved. Threads get moved all the time.
6) As above
7) As above

No conspiracy here, just us chickens.

 

[Kicks]

Will my offline mate get a refund for the £700 he spent on new hardware JUST to play this game? I suspect not

No, and why would he? That's absurd. If my girlfriend promises to come for dinner and I go buy all the lovely food, then because of an emergency she can't make it - Do I tell her to cover the bill? No, I don't, because I'd be single.

 

[stimutacs]

I'm in Western Australia, and I don't have any issues. I'm not sure what your point is, to be honest, as ED clients don't actually do their "flying" based on realtime data from a server. It's peer-to-peer. The server locations don't seem to matter to my gameplay.

But that's not the point, as this is server stuff is all about Online mode... not the late, lamented Offline mode.

Uh, regular multi-second spikes and significantly non-zero loss are in no way acceptable for any remote service, and if connecting to a remote service over that link is my only option, I'm going to have to pass. I mean - here's it behaving itself, right now -

Ping statistics for 79.125.0.137:
Packets: Sent = 73, Received = 71, Lost = 2 (2% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 347ms, Maximum = 412ms, Average = 357ms

I am sure experts can differ on whether that's acceptable. But it isn't.

 

[Tim Wheatley]

Will my offline mate get a refund for the £700 he spent on new hardware JUST to play this game? I suspect not

I've been here debating on your mates behalf all night. The result is confirmation of no offline mode, and that software refunds are available. You can be annoyed all you want, and I didn't tell you otherwise.

 

[Lobstris]

Not quite - it has a roof - it's a fully functioning house, it just doesn't have the conservatory.

Many hours too late in a fast moving thread, I love it when the house metaphor comes into play, as I'm always tempted to add " 'tis a nice house, to be sure, but the foundations are built on the quicksand of p2p multiplayer."

 

[Iain M Norman]

For me, one of the most important things is ED told me when I purchased the game that I could play the game offline. If you want to play against other players, more power to you, but that has no appeal for me. I've played MMORPG's for years starting with Ultima Online and for the last 10 years World of Warcraft and the one major factor that has spoilt these games for me from time to time is the PvP aspect of the games. I feel no urge to competitively enter into combat with anyone because; I have no desire to have my rear end handed to me on a plate by some kid, especially seeing as this game seems to be very labour orientated, it would be heartbreaking to have all ones work undone because some nasty, spiteful little griefer has got nothing better to do than make someone's life miserable. You know that happens in Online games, it will happen here. Do people want this game to become an EVE clone? Some probably will.... but I don't. It's all about personal choices, if you choose to PvP players in a game, then surely one should have the opposite choice for the sake of balance and fairness. In World of Warcraft, if you don't want to get involved with PVP, you have the chance to join a NON PvP server. Sadly, this seems not to be the case with ED, everyone might get thrown in to the same pot and the nastiest, most skilful players will succeed. All power to them, if that's what they want from their game, but I for one will not pay a penny of my money to be their whipping boy. So, I hope that the game gives me my refund I've asked for. And, if in the future they have a change of heart about Offline gaming, they can let me know and I'll gladly pay for the game again. Sadly, and I know that I'm no loss to anyone...... This game isn't for me..... BEFORE its even started

There's still a solo mode, it just requires you to have an internet connection.

I know that's no help to the people that need offline, just answering this particular users concerns.

 

[Titus Balls]

Probably not.

Michael

OK I've since seen Michael's post that there will probably not be a solo mode.

Beyond that, I can't really say any more than I'm disappointed too. That is a real shame for people who backed the game expecting this and wanting to play offline only. Some of my arguments against solo online mode were based on the fact we expected this too.

His flippant answers of "probably not" I can't really defend. FD really lack communications skills, bordering on the levels of corporate aspergers. Actually it's kind of made *ME* angry.

Regardless of this, I still want the game I paid for. If you are not getting the game you paid for, request a refund. Don't do a chargeback though, that's just a D-bag move regardless of the situation.

 

[noodle]

As I've mentioned elsewhere I understand the sentiment. We have put considerable time and effort to try and make this happen, but we've had to make this decision to make the game we set out to do. We would happily support offline play if it were possible for us to do so.

Michael

Could you please address whether any level of refund will be available to Kickstarter backers? I am not interested in a full refund, but I wouldn't have pledged as high as I did without an off-line mode. And the boxed copy is now a worthless piece of junk rather than something I could install ten years down the line for a bit of nostalgia.

 

[Juniper]

As I've mentioned elsewhere I understand the sentiment. We have put considerable time and effort to try and make this happen, but we've had to make this decision to make the game we set out to do. We would happily support offline play if it were possible for us to do so.

Michael

Whilst all answers are replies, not all replies are answers.

Guess that proves the point.