No Single Player offline Mode then?

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Pointless speculation now.

And doesn't change the fact that a promised and advertised feature was cut off in the last minute, without any kind of reassurance that it might be included later.

It was merely promised. It was no way advertised. I don't know, as I said I had my doubts and skepticism for offline mode. I kinda saw this coming miles away. Still saddened...because it has ripped a hole in our community, where quite a lot people feel just angry, despite the fact they have supported making rather beautiful game I must add.

It's never easy.

 

[Pibbles]

Don't you think it would have been nice for FD to have told us this rather than try and sneak it past us in a newsletter?

One of the concerning things is Michael himself - earlier in this thread - said the decision was not made recently, and yet people were still allowed to keep on making purchases, in fact encouraged to do so. I think it is this sort of behaviour that will catch them out on this point however, and put them in the position of having to offer refunds on this point.

Frontier may not have intended it to be, but the outcome is anti-consumer.

 

[MikeGreg]

I will try that, but its been an hour and I have only downloaded about 5% so far. So it may mean that I have to start the game a couple of hours before I actually want to play, so it can download all the data it needs. Still, it should be worth it if it works.

Well i am at home and it took me 3 hours here to download the last beta upgrade
adittedly it was with an wifi connection from my router in the next room
but i can play in all modes like this ( just ) about 20fps but thats realy bad, cos i play x-plane the same way and get between (50/80) online 110 offline
mind you anything over 60 is a waste cos the human eye cant see it anyway, ( x-plane will not run under 20, it goes into limp mode
and i would add that x-plane has the graphics turned well up

 

[Ccrazed]

We're getting 5 extra ships for £300,000. What more do you want?

That made I larf

 

[psuamier]

This ^^^.

Problem is, offline mode if introduced would be actual feature of the product, and lot of people not very keen on having static universe would try it offline. It would end up with angry feedback that offline mode is "worthless and pointless", etc.

When going the simple route the Universe still could be evolving, but only influenced by you alone and NPCs. So it might end being boring or not. I don't believe however in it being boring as you can explore so many different (!) stars alone that it would never get boring in your whole life (even the old Frontier Elite-type Games would be still interesting to play in this regard - I have explored only a very small portion of it).

So how much do you estimate it would cost to produce offline mode ? 5, 50, 500 man years (i.e. number of developers a year) ?
It's not only feature but most important people that need to be paid to do it. Frontier has to hire extra people for this job. And it will only happen if the Online version is succesfull.

And yes I want offline mode. Being it just because the potential number of customers for offline is much higher than those having access to Internet. It might be a minority on this board. But for the whole world it can be a huge difference. Playing while in train, while on trip in a foreign country and so on. It seems for now I will need to use oolite or other graphically-pimped-up Offline Elite clones.

 

[Titus Balls]

Don't you think it would have been nice for FD to have told us this rather than try and sneak it past us in a newsletter?

If they knew a while ago, then yes. Michael indicated it was a more recent call. If was over a month ago, sure they could have told us.

Sadly as a SCRUM master on a project (with another Cambridge based company funnily enough) I have to make difficult calls all the time and have to try word it to stakeholders and project managers within the client.

I fully appreciate how hard it is to tell two or three people, let alone thousands of end users they are not getting something.

 

[Wakner]

The Point is that DRM-free meant that you can Install a Game and Play it without an Account or any Need to Login! DRM-FREE
Why should i Play Online? The Openplay sucks! The Missions are static and the Trading is static too. No Background-Simulation.

No sorry, i want my Money back. Right now this is not Elite Dangerous that announced on Kickstarter!

With respect, you are wrong.

The kickstarter is clear that and account is needed:

"Physical DRM-free boxed edition of "Elite: Dangerous" plus all rewards above (please note: the disc in the pack is simply an alternative way to install the game - it will have the same online account code whether installed off disc or downloaded digitally)."

 

[Cathy]

...
I'd say on average, every 5-15 minutes, probably, depending on how many server query-able actions you take within that span of time...

Thanks.

And to correct your bold assertion, people were told it was a design goal. One that has been shown to be unrealistic given the game's massive scope. This horse has been beaten twice to death.

"Update! The above is the intended single player experience. However it will be possible to have a single player game without connecting to the galaxy server. You won't get the features of the evolving galaxy (although we will investigate minimising those differences) and you probably won't be able to sync between server and non-server (again we'll investigate)."

That's not a "design goal". That's a re-assertion of the original promise in the form of an update.

 

[Michael Brookes]

Just so I have this clear in my head, are you saying it's impossible to achieve an offline mode, or that currently it is unfeasible due to resource/time/finance restrictions?

If it is the former, then I think you guys need to take a step back, (which you have already initiated), give it a few months, a year or whatever and rethink it once the resources/time/finances allow. Because we both know that nothing is impossible with software.

If on the other hand it is the latter, then follow the exact same advice ;P

With both eventualities release a public statement, (sooner rather than later), saying that offline was cut because of delays it would have caused to the release, (but do it properly this time), and that you will revisit the offline mode at future date.

Not only will this restore good faith, (for some or maybe even most), but it will placate the fence sitters; lets face it, the majority of us have been waiting 30 years already, another 12 months isn't going to kill most people.

P.S. This post may seem arrogant or condescending, but it is not intended that way; I know you are professionals, but when transparency starts to become opaque and bomb shells start fragmenting it's usually best to do something quickly.

It is impractical rather than impossible, but circumstances mean that it cannot be done.

Michael

 

[Ccrazed]

Well i am at home and it took me 3 hours here to download the last beta upgrade
adittedly it was with an wifi connection from my router in the next room
but i can play in all modes like this ( just ) about 20fps but thats realy bad, cos i play x-plane the same way and get between (50/80) online 110 offline
mind you anything over 60 is a waste cos the human eye cant see it anyway, ( x-plane will not run under 20, it goes into limp mode
and i would add that x-plane has the graphics turned well up

I think I am looking at about 8 hours to do the download, but I am hoping that I will be able to play the single player mode as others have suggested it may work, although I have my doubts.

 

[beelbeebub]

Bad analogy. It's more like the trip planner knowing for weeks that there is a construction site on the planned route and that the tour will not be possible after all, but waiting to tell everybody until the bus is stuck in traffic.

I think that it only started to become difficult as they started loading stuff onto the servers rather than locally. For example, in early PB the docking authorisation was done locally (or amongst the island from whoever had authority over the station). This lead to a lot of unable to get docking clearance bugs, lots of vanishing stations and all sorts of issues. FD then moved the docking authority to the servers. I think this was the point (i.e. after the bus journey started) that it became more difficult to produce offline. Like our tour guide, FD probably tried to keep to the original plan as long as possible but at some point (probably a meeting in the last week or so) the decision was taken to abandon offline efforts, which is why we are told now, probably only a few days or a week at most after the decision to kill offline was made.

 

[Azimuth]

I think if the actual online game succeeds, in 30 years time, ED or third parties will have created a standalone offline legacy package to keep us and our kids playing, but I would accept that it's not feasible for a game due to be released in 2014 or 2015 and would actually block the success ED needs to be relevant in 30 years' time.

Sure - and I hope that's the case. It's just a bit of a let-down when the lead-up to ED has featured so many references back to the original game - people streaming Elite, offering the original game for free in the store, classic wireframe t-shirts, etc.

My main concern, I guess, is the first one - that launch day comes around and no-one can play the game in any capacity because the servers collapse and there's no fallback. That took a huge bite out of EA's struggling reputation when it happened to Sim City; Ubisoft routinely embarrass themselves with Uplay's failings under launch day load (not to mention the quality issues with Assassin's Creed: Unity); Blizzard are getting flak because people can't log on to play the latest WoW expansion, and I would hate to see the same happen to Frontier, because in my mind they don't deserve it.

 

[Marc Alexander]

I suppose suggesting a Kickstarter for an offline version would be unhelpful at this point?






(I'm being facetious of course)

 

[Michael Brookes]

Didn't stop people playing Frontier. Some still play it now. Some would quite happily play it with ED graphics.

Which is great, but we are doing so much more with this new game.

Michael

 

[Zieman]

It was merely promised. It was no way advertised. I don't know, as I said I had my doubts and skepticism for offline mode. I kinda saw this coming miles away. Still saddened...because it has ripped a hole in our community, where quite a lot people feel just angry, despite the fact they have supported making rather beautiful game I must add.

It's never easy.

About the "not advertised" I disagree, rest of your post I agree with.

Sad PR blunder for FDEV, and only time will tell how E: D eventually pans out - I hope all do recover.

 

[SJT]

It is impractical rather than impossible, but circumstances mean that it cannot be done.

Michael

To clarify, I assume impractical = not enough return for investment.

 

[Juniper]

It is impractical rather than impossible, but circumstances mean that it cannot be done.

Michael

Please elaborate on this point.

What circumstances, specifically.

Is your arm being twisted by "external forces"?

 

[Pibbles]

It was merely promised. It was no way advertised.

I think most people accept it's a new constraint come to light through development but it's how FD are handling it that counts.

The thing people need to be aware of - in the EU and for store buyers only - is that it doesn't even matter if it were advertised or not, it's the fact that it was not laid out in precise and durable terms before the contract was made that offline would not be possible, that means the sale is void. The onus is absolutely on the seller to make people aware:

"Information to be provided before making an off-premises contract
10.—(1) Before the consumer is bound by an off-premises contract, the trader—
(a) must give the consumer the information listed in Schedule 2 in a clear and
comprehensible manner, and
2) The information and any cancellation form must be given on paper or, if the consumer
agrees, on another durable medium and must be legible. "

There was no durable information, therefore the contract can be escaped from, any refund clause is now not valid because of the lack of the durable information.

I think FD need to realise this, make people now aware of their rights and refund them and move on. Otherwise it's inevitable at least one person will leverage their credit card to get a ruling on this, or take it further.

 

[PrometheusDarko]

And I have a shelf full of MMOs that do not work, I bet all of those companies wanted to keep the servers running for years as well eh?

And I bet you got no enjoyment at all out of them, eh? And I bet they were just a money grab, and didn't want to make a game people would enjoy. I wear the title "fanboi" (Boy is spelled with a "Y" mate) with pride. I grew up on Elite on the NES and FFE on my computer. And I'm proud to be a part of bringing it back, so give me all the negative rep for enjoying the game you want, doesn't change the fact that this game is awesome. Hope to not see you around, Commander!

This is a perfect example of someone who finds amusement where there is none, how are you actually helping this discussion, what input are you providing to this thread?

None, zero, nil, nada, your signal to noise ratio is abysmal; it's embarrassing to have to wade through these kinds of posts. You need to just stop for a minute, read some of the logical and well structured grievances that have been aired in this thread and ask yourself an extremely simple question.

If there was a fundamental feature that was pulled at the last minute that caused the game to completely cease functioning for me, how would I feel, how would I react, what would I post, how would I feel when the troll train deposited the one liner army at my doorstep and barraged me with inane and toxic drivel?

If you can picture that scenario and answer it in a logical manner, I look forward to you getting that signal to noise ratio back into the positive part of the graph.

Oh irony, thou art a cruel and heartless mistress whom I love.

One of the concerning things is Michael himself - earlier in this thread - said the decision was not made recently, and yet people were still allowed to keep on making purchases, in fact encouraged to do so. I think it is this sort of behaviour that will catch them out on this point however, and put them in the position of having to offer refunds on this point.

Frontier may not have intended it to be, but the outcome is anti-consumer.

He also said that they wanted to be 100% sure that Offline was completely off the board before announcing it. Don't cherry pick. Try to realize that this wasn't a flippant or easy decision on their part. At all. They realized full well the backlash that was coming. I'm proud of them for making the announcement now and proud of Michael for staying on the forums to answer our questions.

 

[mbpoblet]

Which is great, but we are doing so much more with this new game.

Michael

So much less, you mean.

Multiplayer is a bug, not a feature.