No Single Player offline Mode then?

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Vlodec

Banned
Btw ... I am quite sure all ED backers will hear an official apology from DB himself at the launch party. He is a very honest person and i am sure that he tried everything feasible to deliver the offline-mode.
That's it! Move on ...

I don't share your confidence. Far from it. Nothing in the behaviour of FD or DB since Kickstarter has suggested such humility.

And I'm rapidly getting tired of the "Let's move on and leave this nonsense behind" stuff. Something was promised that wasn't delivered. Something that some thought was crucial. Worse, the message was delivered in the most mealy mouthed lets-hope-no-one-will-notice way. Let's not move on.
 
Always online = no (or very limited) pirated copies of the game.

Braben is not radically against piracy, however... he appears to see its potential benefits as "free publicity" or "try before you buy":

“Piracy, while frustrating, can contribute to game evangelism,” he said. “It can also help you reach new territories. For example, we are huge in China now. In the old days of silver discs, it would have been impossible to break the whole country. We would have needed an office in every province but through piracy, our games are circulating and fans are now seeking us out.

“Piracy goes hand in hand with sales,” he continued. “If a game is pirated a lot it will be bought a lot. People want a connected experience, so with pirated games we still have a route in to get them to upgrade to real version. And even if someone’s version is pirated, they might evangelise and their mates will buy the real thing.”
 
As a kickstarter backer totally unaffected by these developments I am astounded at Frontiers decision and chosen method of announcement on this issue. I have held fire for a couple of days on posting on this issue because I really wanted to let it sink in and post a measured response accordingly.

As to the reasons the decision was made, I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt on that, however, as others have said, I am struggling to believe that it only became apparent that Single Offline wasn't viable in the last few days and this close to release. Surely it must have become apparent sometime ago that this was going to be the case, and as such, it should have been communicated to us, via the forums, and in the appropriate newsletter, as soon as it was so much as a possibility, let alone a 'tough decision made'.

Whether or not anything was 'promised' is fairly moot at this point, the point is that Frontier staff, (at least some culpability), and moderators, (not their fault), and the community at large thought there was the option of Single Offline still at 15:40 hours on Friday just gone, this is unacceptable. Whilst some of the people claiming they will take x, y or z legal action, report the issue, or in some way derail Frontiers launch event are, in my opinion, overeating, some of the people defending Frontier on this decision are equally as lamentable.

@ Frontier - You must realise, (and surely do), that crap sticks and becomes hard to wash off, some of those that have posted in this thread and others have been your most ardent backers and supporters, many of them have defended your policy and track record, sometimes rightly, sometimes not so much so. It was never their job to do so, nor was it requested by Frontier, however, do not underestimate what the good 'word of mouth' aspect has done for your name, your brand and your game. Also, do not underestimate how damaging it is or how long it will take to wash the stains out of the laundry from this mess of an announcement.

The omens are worrying to say the least now, we learn that the statement 'we are making the game we want to play' now actually reads, 'we are making a platform that may, one day, become the game we want to play'. We learn that a decent sized part of the proposed features may well permanently be on the cutting room floor, and, we have our faith shaken that if something as fundamental as an entire game mode can suddenly be 'not viable' then what next? It seems if something like that can be dropped then no proposal is safe, like it or not, some trust has gone Frontier, of course not from all, but from a percentage of fans, some heavily involved financially, be it in shares, pledge level or just 'word of mouth positives'. The problem is Frontier, that this is starting to smell like you are in a bit over your heads, be it financially or simply from an overreaching point of view, 'we will release when its ready' seems to have gone out of the window, it wasn't 'ready' before Fridays announcement and is even less 'ready' if fundamental features are being canned.

To those of you that cannot play without offline mode, or are at least affected by it, to a larger or smaller degree, you have my empathy and hopes that Frontier will change their minds on this, to posters arguing with those affected, some of you should take a step back and think, you really should. Many of us are backers of Elite Dangerous, very nearly all of us are supporters of Frontier, we of course can have differing views on Supercruise and mining, without doubt, but the rug being pulled out from under the feet of some of us affects us all, it may be you or me next, it may be a feature we consider vital next, it may be us asking for a refund if this happens again. We should stand as one here, a community united, because this has the potential to hurt us all.

And on that note the thread should be closed. Awesome post.
 
They are delivering DRM free version (see their definition of that in KS FAQ), and they are delivering goods. One feature get dropped. Not really strong basis for required refund. Will FD choose to refund it's their decision.

Yeah? This whole thread is about the mandatory online connection, which is not DRM free by definition. And actually in the KS FAQ you mention they also promise offline play, but what the hey...at least you posted something, right...
 
Good for you,why are you still here then?

i and others have our reasons to, what's yours?

I don't share your confidence. Far from it. Nothing in the behaviour of FD or DB since Kickstarter has suggested such humility.

And I'm rapidly getting tired of the "Let's move on and leave this nonsense behind" stuff. Something was promised that wasn't delivered. Something that some thought was crucial. Worse, the message was delivered in the most mealy mouthed lets-hope-no-one-will-notice way. Let's not move on.

+1
 
If you bought some underwear and wore it for several days do you think you will get your money back?

If I paid for some underwear and got a sample to test, and then was told I would not receive the underwear I paid for, then I would ask for a refund. In the UK I would be legally entitled to a refund, definitely before having the product delivered - which will happen in December. Possibly afterwards as well depending.
 
I don't share your confidence. Far from it. Nothing in the behaviour of FD or DB since Kickstarter has suggested such humility.

And I'm rapidly getting tired of the "Let's move on and leave this nonsense behind" stuff. Something was promised that wasn't delivered. Something that some thought was crucial. Worse, the message was delivered in the most mealy mouthed lets-hope-no-one-will-notice way. Let's not move on.

I think what's most galling about it is how simplistic this "essential" cloud generated stuff seems to be. Have you ever had a mission that didn't look like randomly generated nonsense from a lookup table? Ever seen commodity transport work in any sophisticated way - even something rivaling, say, Railroad Tycoon from 1990? Truly, the majesty of their living galaxy is beyond the scope of even the mightiest PC today.
 
Yeah? This whole thread is about the mandatory online connection, which is not DRM free by definition. And actually in the KS FAQ you mention they also promise offline play, but what the hey...at least you posted something, right...

I didn't talk about offline mode. Offline mode is a *feature*, not a delivery object in Kickstarter. DRM free version in eyes of FD since beginning of KS was box with installation which doesn't require serial number or anything. That's what their FAQ says and that's what they gonna deliver.

As for features missing refunding Kickstarter pledge is completely at the mercy of FD. I am not saying they won't do it - in fact if I was David I would, because no point of breeding ill between people on this topic, what's done, done - just don't expect automatic refunding if you are KS backer for ED project.
 
I think what's most galling about it is how simplistic this "essential" cloud generated stuff seems to be. Have you ever had a mission that didn't look like randomly generated nonsense from a lookup table? Ever seen commodity transport work in any sophisticated way - even something rivaling, say, Railroad Tycoon from 1990? Truly, the majesty of their living galaxy is beyond the scope of even the mightiest PC today.

and that's one of the reasons why i don't believe a single word of what robert said
 
DRM free version in eyes of FD since beginning of KS was box with installation which doesn't require serial number or anything. That's what their FAQ says and that's what they gonna deliver.

As for features missing refunding Kickstarter pledge is completely at the mercy of FD. I am not saying they won't do it - in fact if I was David I would, because no point of breeding ill between people on this topic, what's done, done - just don't expect automatic refunding if you are KS backer for ED project.

If they don't do it, it will be at the mercy of some court, and FD will lose. They can call it what they want, but always online is not DRM free. There is just no way around this fact:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Always-on_DRM
 
I doubt it was a last-minute decision. I suspect the offline 'problem' has been part of internal discussions at FD for some time (probably months), they have probably allowed a certain amount of resource to try to solve it, and have been unable to come up with a viable solution, and now it has been announced to us.

I expect FD are just as dissapointed as anyone else.

Actually, I think, as many have already said they do, that the biggest tragedy here was the way that the news was released.

If they had done it very much earlier, when it was seen that there was a major problem looming, informed the community and shown that they were trying their hardest but sadly didn't look possible then it would have been far less painful and they would have kept their integrity.

The galling thing for most people was throwing out as an aside in the middle of a PR piece and trying to spin it as a positive.
 
And I'm rapidly getting tired of the "Let's move on and leave this nonsense behind" stuff. Something was promised that wasn't delivered. Something that some thought was crucial. Worse, the message was delivered in the most mealy mouthed lets-hope-no-one-will-notice way. Let's not move on.

+1. Whether you care about Offline or not, surely people can agree that the way FD 'announced' dropping it was pretty poor (to say the very least...).
 
can we please?

I really wish the mods would just close this thread. Its gone around the same point about 4000 times now, and the predominant contributors have been extremely dismissive of even the staff's completely valid arguments, reasons, and viewpoints. And on more than one occasion, insinuations at legal action have been made (bordering on threats)... this is just plain childish.

Time to give up the chase. Offline is NOT coming.
Want your money back? Do something about it, stop dragging others down with you (as you seem to be intent on anyway, with your intention of withdrawing funds from the development company, due to your misunderstanding of ONE KEY LINE on the KS page).
ED:Kickstarter - Risks and Challenges said:
Stating the obvious, all projects, whether building a bridge, making a film, studying for an exam or whatever, carry risk. Projects can run out of time or money, people can leave, assumptions that were made at the start may prove to be mistaken, or the results may simply not be as good as expected. Games development is no different.

I, personally, want my positive beta forum back. I (and MANY others) want to keep testing, I (and MANY others) want to see the game succeed, while the pessimists here are convinced it has already failed.
 
Actually, I think, as many have already said they do, that the biggest tragedy here was the way that the news was released.

If they had done it very much earlier, when it was seen that there was a major problem looming, informed the community and shown that they were trying their hardest but sadly didn't look possible then it would have been far less painful and they would have kept their integrity.

The galling thing for most people was throwing out as an aside in the middle of a PR piece and trying to spin it as a positive.

i think the major point is that it requires to be constantly online to a game that for whathever reason cannot be launched offline.
everything points to being a single player game with online instancing..surely the excuse of it being an mmo (really?) does not stand up in my eyes
and then there's drm
 
I think what's most galling about it is how simplistic this "essential" cloud generated stuff seems to be. Have you ever had a mission that didn't look like randomly generated nonsense from a lookup table? Ever seen commodity transport work in any sophisticated way - even something rivaling, say, Railroad Tycoon from 1990? Truly, the majesty of their living galaxy is beyond the scope of even the mightiest PC today.

I'm assuming that what we have so far experienced is just the bare bones or placeholders for their dynamic galaxy. Assuming the infrastructure is already sound, we may get to witness the benefits of this system at gamma or even beta 3.9

If we don't then yeah I basically agree with everything you said and even the sarcasm ;)
 
Just looked at previous posts. Didn't realize I was probably feeding a troll. I cannot judge the intention of another poster but I will stop answering his questions I think.

If everyone took a step back ... went for a pint .. watched some tv ... GOT SOME PERSPECTIVE ... this thread would be dead in a heart beat
 
As a kickstarter backer totally unaffected by these developments I am astounded at Frontiers decision and chosen method of announcement on this issue. I have held fire for a couple of days on posting on this issue because I really wanted to let it sink in and post a measured response accordingly.

As to the reasons the decision was made, I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt on that, however, as others have said, I am struggling to believe that it only became apparent that Single Offline wasn't viable in the last few days and this close to release. Surely it must have become apparent sometime ago that this was going to be the case, and as such, it should have been communicated to us, via the forums, and in the appropriate newsletter, as soon as it was so much as a possibility, let alone a 'tough decision made'.

Whether or not anything was 'promised' is fairly moot at this point, the point is that Frontier staff, (at least some culpability), and moderators, (not their fault), and the community at large thought there was the option of Single Offline still at 15:40 hours on Friday just gone, this is unacceptable. Whilst some of the people claiming they will take x, y or z legal action, report the issue, or in some way derail Frontiers launch event are, in my opinion, overeating, some of the people defending Frontier on this decision are equally as lamentable.

@ Frontier - You must realise, (and surely do), that crap sticks and becomes hard to wash off, some of those that have posted in this thread and others have been your most ardent backers and supporters, many of them have defended your policy and track record, sometimes rightly, sometimes not so much so. It was never their job to do so, nor was it requested by Frontier, however, do not underestimate what the good 'word of mouth' aspect has done for your name, your brand and your game. Also, do not underestimate how damaging it is or how long it will take to wash the stains out of the laundry from this mess of an announcement.

The omens are worrying to say the least now, we learn that the statement 'we are making the game we want to play' now actually reads, 'we are making a platform that may, one day, become the game we want to play'. We learn that a decent sized part of the proposed features may well permanently be on the cutting room floor, and, we have our faith shaken that if something as fundamental as an entire game mode can suddenly be 'not viable' then what next? It seems if something like that can be dropped then no proposal is safe, like it or not, some trust has gone Frontier, of course not from all, but from a percentage of fans, some heavily involved financially, be it in shares, pledge level or just 'word of mouth positives'. The problem is Frontier, that this is starting to smell like you are in a bit over your heads, be it financially or simply from an overreaching point of view, 'we will release when its ready' seems to have gone out of the window, it wasn't 'ready' before Fridays announcement and is even less 'ready' if fundamental features are being canned.

To those of you that cannot play without offline mode, or are at least affected by it, to a larger or smaller degree, you have my empathy and hopes that Frontier will change their minds on this, to posters arguing with those affected, some of you should take a step back and think, you really should. Many of us are backers of Elite Dangerous, very nearly all of us are supporters of Frontier, we of course can have differing views on Supercruise and mining, without doubt, but the rug being pulled out from under the feet of some of us affects us all, it may be you or me next, it may be a feature we consider vital next, it may be us asking for a refund if this happens again. We should stand as one here, a community united, because this has the potential to hurt us all.

This sums up the situation for me perfectly. I am quoting your entire post because I want it to get more visibility.

Rep +++
 
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