No Single Player offline Mode then?

[Demosthien]

Your link has nothing to do with FD policy. As my post was about FD policy on refunds now and in the past and nothing more, your response had nothing to do with my post or the post that I was responding too.

My link overrules FD policy as it relates to consumer law and clearly demonstrates that FD policy is not enforceable (at least in the UK). Which is why I pointed it out to you, so you would be aware that FD policy and actions are incorrect in denying refunds due to them product being downloaded.

If you don't want to know then that's cool but I just thought you'd want to be enlightened.

 

[Zenicetus]

Faulty does not mean a square looking like a sphere. Faulty means that the product is broken in such a manner it's not fit for purpose. Which is why Egosoft had to refund so many people over X-Rebirth they barely kept from going into Administration if memory serves. It might also be hyperbole I'm repeating. The message is that Egosoft has felt that launch resonate in their bonemarrow.

X:Rebirth also used Steam as a digital distribution method. Lots of crap games get sold on Steam, but when they're truly broken, Steam will force developer refunds. I know it involved jumping through some hoops, but at least some people received X:Rebirth refunds through Steam.

With ED it's different, obviously. The ball is completely in Frontier's court on this one, and it looks like the plan is to batten down the hatches and wait for the storm to pass. It may not matter much in the long term, but they sure didn't help their launch event, with the way they're handling this.

 

[DraigUK]

Now, if a lot of people over on Star Citizen is saying you are silly to give up your Elite: Dangerous account, you know you should probably reconsider your position

http://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/2mimna/sold_my_elite_dangerous_account_what_is_a_good/

So am I reading this right? The guy sells his ED account because he's annoyed at them pulling the plug on offline mode, then goes and blows the money he got for it on an online only ship for SC, with SC currently in a state of being able to walk around a hanger and play in an arena? All online?

I think the world has gone truly nuts sometimes I really do.

 

[nexxo]

That is a sticky one, I agree. However, the problem I see (for the FD at least) is that we're talking about Alpha/Beta/Pre-sales here. Ignoring the final product pre-sales (as they're a guaranteed refund). The alpha/beta sales have all been bundled with the final product. So when you pay for alpha/beta access you're actually getting the final product in the package. It's this final product that is "faulty" as it was sold as having an offline mode (this cannot be denied, it's been said by FD everywhere) and they have now stated it will not have offline mode.

So the refunds based on a "faulty download" are not actually for alpha/beta downloads but in fact for the future download of the final product packaged by FD into the alpha/beta sales. Unless of course they suddenly decide to add offline mode to the final product!

By that logic, if you buy something and get something else thrown in for free, and that freebie turns out to be missing a promised feature, can you ask for a refund on the bought product that you happily used in the meantime?

 

[JimmySav]

With 8 million posts to read, i will just add my view. Online is not a disaster IF THEY MAKE IT EASY TO QUIT/PAUSE when real life intervenes. As an older original elite player with a family I don't have hours of uninterruptible game play time. Just time snatched between real life.

If Elite allows me to play this way cool, if not I have just wasted a bunch of money as not only did I buy it prelaunch but I upgraded my PC to be elite ready too...

 

[Milky82]

Yes, don't give up, not until you bankrupted FD and ruined it for everyone else as well.

Honestly, I am genuinely sorry for those who can't play with an active internet connection, but when you start to imply that if you can't have it, no one should, my sympathy rapidly starts to dry up.

Agreed, but that's rage on the Internet, Threats to burn the world from behind a keyboard.

 

[noodle]

lmao exactly!!

c'mon there is only so many 'look at me, im wringing my hands, i dont know what to do' statements someone can make before he just needs a tiny push over the ledge??

Stop reading them then. Posts like that just sound unpleasant and make the forums sound like an obnoxious and intolerant place.

 

[beelbeebub]

I suspect FD legal have been busy little bees, checking up on the exact wording, timing of events and so on, and have given their verdict regarding FD's exposure to refund claims. I expect it ran something along the lines of:
-

"If they downloaded the beta and we have server logs showing them using it online then our legal position is strong. If they never downloaded the beta or never played it online then they have a case and we should refund them"​

-
This advice probably took a few days to get together, hence the delay in sending refund emails and the (apparent) slew of refusals or refunds that seemed to start this afternoon.
-
FD's legal team are almost certainly considerably more experienced than anyone on this forum who is not a lawyer.

 

[Demosthien]

Nope, I read them.


Just because a feature was intended and deemed impractical doesn't mean that the product is faulty or not as described.

It's always said that Minimum Requirements: Internet Connection.

If you don't have one, you couldn't play, and you get a refund.

If you do, and you did, you don't. Nothing faulty, works as advertised.

Well then you read the posts but failed to actually understand it. Go read the link.

"Faulty downloads
If there's a problem with a download and it doesn’t work properly, you should be able to argue that the seller is in breach of contract.

For example, if the download fails to work or isn't as the seller described it. In such cases, you should be able to ask the retailer to replace the download."

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/problem/can-i-get-a-refund-on-a-digital-download

 

[ianw]

That is a sticky one, I agree. However, the problem I see (for the FD at least) is that we're talking about Alpha/Beta/Pre-sales here. Ignoring the final product pre-sales (as they're a guaranteed refund). The alpha/beta sales have all been bundled with the final product. So when you pay for alpha/beta access you're actually getting the final product in the package. It's this final product that is "faulty" as it was sold as having an offline mode (this cannot be denied, it's been said by FD everywhere) and they have now stated it will not have offline mode.

So the refunds based on a "faulty download" are not actually for alpha/beta downloads but in fact for the future download of the final product packaged by FD into the alpha/beta sales. Unless of course they suddenly decide to add offline mode to the final product!

I suppose it depends on where it says offline mode was included - it didn't say it at the point of sale when I bought a spare beta account in July.

Dunno - sounds like a can of worms..

 

[Theliel]

Well then you read the posts but failed to actually understand it. Go read the link.

"Faulty downloads
If there's a problem with a download and it doesn’t work properly, you should be able to argue that the seller is in breach of contract.

For example, if the download fails to work or isn't as the seller described it. In such cases, you should be able to ask the retailer to replace the download."

And having an offline mode was as the seller described for anyone who purchased the release version (not alpha or beta).

I mean...the main reason I was interested in Elite was because unlike SC it was supposed to have an offline mode.

 

[Violins77]

I think it's not ok to promise this feature and hide it until the very last second only to announce it will not happen... This is honestly not really fair to backers.

 

[Seonid]

Sorry, i don't play with everyone.
Most often i play with my wife...but she's not into space-sims

Neither is mine, though we do have to synchronise ED and Archeage trade runs for that.

 

[dethcx22]

6707

I mean...the main reason I was interested in Elite was because unlike SC it was supposed to have an offline mode.

Exactly This.

 

[Demosthien]

By that logic, if you buy something and get something else thrown in for free, and that freebie turns out to be missing a promised feature, can you ask for a refund on the bought product that you happily used in the meantime?

In the context of my comment, I'd suggest that the purchase was actually for the final product and people got given the alpha/beta access for free... Wouldn't you?

 

[Toumal]

FD's legal team are almost certainly considerably more experienced than anyone on this forum who is not a lawyer.

Not to mention the fact that anyone who IS a lawyer would never, ever, post anything that could be construed as legal advice on this forum. And even if they did post a mere opinion, they'd add a disclaimer denoting it as such, and making it absolutely clear that they are not offering legal advice via their post.

Ask your lawyer if you want to know why this is important

 

[Milky82]

Stop reading them then. Posts like that just sound unpleasant and make the forums sound like an obnoxious and intolerant place.

And this sounds like you're being offended on others behalf, are you ?

 

[Erna Jedermann]

Yes, don't give up, not until you bankrupted FD and ruined it for everyone else as well.

Honestly, I am genuinely sorry for those who can't play with an active internet connection, but when you start to imply that if you can't have it, no one should, my sympathy rapidly starts to dry up.

I think the problem is:
First remove offline.....
All wich need/wanted/suggest it (if you ask here in Forum all will say offline sure you get it......even the store side offered it until friday as offline possible) lost this possibility...and the white knights shout.....take refund and go.
Then today .... sorry you download an betaversion and test it for us ( I get for that normally paid )...but that means you play so no refund...and also we wipe...because in this case its beta.
Again comes the army and say haha you get nothing .... have test it for as...leave the game if you don't want....thank for supporting OUR game which we leave when the Hypetrain goes to the next station
And you wonder why the otherside react now so ????????
Btw...I hope you notice that the Livetime expansion pass is now very long out of stock (must difficult to build ) if I where you after this all I starts to worry about this expansions.....

 

[Vlodec]

I suspect FD legal have been busy little bees, checking up on the exact wording, timing of events and so on, and have given their verdict regarding FD's exposure to refund claims. I expect it ran something along the lines of:
-

"If they downloaded the beta and we have server logs showing them using it online then our legal position is strong. If they never downloaded the beta or never played it online then they have a case and we should refund them"​

-
This advice probably took a few days to get together, hence the delay in sending refund emails and the (apparent) slew of refusals or refunds that seemed to start this afternoon.
-
FD's legal team are almost certainly considerably more experienced than anyone on this forum who is not a lawyer.

This is true. Do you think lawyers advice may have persuaded DB to agree to that awful charade earlier this evening? I certainly had the impression he didn't want to be there. His lack of enthusiasm was tangible. But I originally thought a deputation of other major shareholders may have been responsible.

 

[ThatFuzzyTiger]

Stop reading them then. Posts like that just sound unpleasant and make the forums sound like an obnoxious and intolerant place.

I've already tossed a couple of reports to moderators about it, got no time for people who bait, and I'd suggest not even dignifying him with a response in future.