Wrong, they played a beta. If they are going to take this approach as a lame excuse to keep money, then I suggest nobody ever play or download a game until it's released and you have seen reviews on it. Probably should be doing that anyway. These guys are just taking advantage of a sort of gray area in the law.
No Single Player offline Mode then?
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Wrong, they played a beta. If they are going to take this approach as a lame excuse to keep money, then I suggest nobody ever play or download a game until it's released and you have seen reviews on it. Probably should be doing that anyway. These guys are just taking advantage of a sort of gray area in the law.
I'm glad to hear this...
I still believe in the project but not the way things are being handled.I think my thinking might be coloured by my career as a 3D artist. I'm so very used to buying into "closed betas" of software, for the explicit purpose of beating on it until it breaks in order to make it better than I'm used to it. And that often runs to thousands, not dozens, of pounds. And in the end you end up using it for work, not fun.
So I'm kinda seeing a different perspective.
So I'm kinda seeing a different perspective.
mmmm I dono...I'm a SC backer too and I think its too early to say that, He hasn't had much to deliver, Yes AC is coming along great and gets better every patch just like elite has been but you need to wait for the big features like planet exploration or boarding and stuff like that before we can say. I can't see the same happening there tbh i think they would come out right and say they were having problems. Like CR was completely upfront about how big a task the netcode was why it meant delays.....we shall see.
There is a great convo in the Katamari Damashii Elite Dangerous thread about this.
Starts around page 625
Oh, jeez. Which law? Please.
Lol. They are called consumer protection laws and they are pretty clear. If you buy something and it doesn't work as advertised or cannot be used as the vendor said it could you are fully entitled for a refund. Having purchased the beta and helping with development has nothing to do with it if the end product is not usable like you intended it to use.
Is it 'keeping' money? Or is it because they've already spent it on development? According to wiki FD is some 240 people and have been working on this for 2 years already... It's not like it's being used to light cigars whilst cackling at people's inability to read the KS terms properly.
For those who just think Kickstarter is a marketplace where you buy a product, though, I would remind you all that many, many people invested A Lot Of Money into the Oculus Rift - that's now owned front-and-back by Facebook. That's recent enough that you really should realise that a Kickstarter isn't a guarantee of anything. No?
By pledging to a Kickstarter, you do no in any way become an owner of the product. You do not own stock. You are gambling your money. For the person who put five grand in, to be honest? If that person is now complaining that they can't get a decent internet connection but had five kay to drop on a Kickstarter, I ... I don't even. I just don't. If I had that much in the bank I could chuck around, but no internet, I'd sort out my bloody internet before throwing it into the unknown future and hoping for the best.
<blank look, shrug>
I mean, wouldn't you? Seriously? You can fix a lot of connectivity issues with that money, and didn't HAVE to back a videogame in a miasma of development.
Braindumping here, we've been told that more and more of the essential Living Universe stuff got moved server-side, to the point that now, a fully-offline, static Elite would be a whole 'nother project. I know a tolerable amount about software project development, cloud computing and thin-client systems so yeah. I completely believe that's the case.
Frontier would not deliberately take a wee on the faces of The Loyal Fanbase just for a lark. That would be insanity and rude to boot.
Ach. My head hurts.
By pledging to a Kickstarter, you do no in any way become an owner of the product. You do not own stock. You are gambling your money. For the person who put five grand in, to be honest? If that person is now complaining that they can't get a decent internet connection but had five kay to drop on a Kickstarter, I ... I don't even. I just don't. If I had that much in the bank I could chuck around, but no internet, I'd sort out my bloody internet before throwing it into the unknown future and hoping for the best.
<blank look, shrug>
I mean, wouldn't you? Seriously? You can fix a lot of connectivity issues with that money, and didn't HAVE to back a videogame in a miasma of development.
Braindumping here, we've been told that more and more of the essential Living Universe stuff got moved server-side, to the point that now, a fully-offline, static Elite would be a whole 'nother project. I know a tolerable amount about software project development, cloud computing and thin-client systems so yeah. I completely believe that's the case.
Frontier would not deliberately take a wee on the faces of The Loyal Fanbase just for a lark. That would be insanity and rude to boot.
Ach. My head hurts.
I wouldn't know about that but ye that wouldn't really make me happy either
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Consumer protection laws and the still rather new concept of dealing with pre-paid, play before it's even done kind of laws. In normal terms kickstarters would be considered investors, and would have certain legal rights, but for some reason, kickstarters don't seem to have the same protection. Get it now? Maybe they did plan on making an offline version, but making promises that you can't keep for whatever reason, does not, or should not, let you off the hook when people donate money in good faith and then can't even get their money back easily when the promised goods were not delivered.
Thanks Bog!
Don't get me wrong I am very happy that the game is as good as everyone says it is but off-line and DRM-free game points very specifically brought forward on KS as selling points and most of us old timers who remember playing Elite in early 1990s didn't have any issues forking out 100+ of pounds to get this project going. What I have a problem at the end of the day is the way this situation was handled. This relationship could have ended on a positive note and not as flaming ing contest.
Don't get me wrong I am very happy that the game is as good as everyone says it is but off-line and DRM-free game points very specifically brought forward on KS as selling points and most of us old timers who remember playing Elite in early 1990s didn't have any issues forking out 100+ of pounds to get this project going. What I have a problem at the end of the day is the way this situation was handled. This relationship could have ended on a positive note and not as flaming ing contest.
Not here to argue, but I think you are doing the same. When someone pays for a package which includes Beta access, and they enjoy Beta access, what constitutes the actual product or service that requires a refund?
I don't have an answer, I just don't think its so much a swindle as it is differences in opinion on what constitutes a product. Sorry if that answer is unsatisfactory, but the ultimate question seems to be whether Beta constitutes part of the product. To FD, it seems to.
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To be honest I backed SC...It wasn't mentioned it would be 64 bit only.......So I haven't been able to play any of the modules and it means I have to buy a new Windows etc when it does arrive
Same sort of thing but I just accepted that's the way it goes as the project progressed ?
Same sort of thing but I just accepted that's the way it goes as the project progressed ?
I'd suggest that the wording and treatment of the beta as the main sale item was to prevent users from treating the beta as a refundable (incomplete) demo as a converse point of view to those saying it's all malicious
Some day you'ill accept stuff one time too often and it'll cost you dearly.
I would like to add .....I THINK...That tier was purchased BEFORE offline mode was confimed ?
Im sure it was one of the first to go ?
The part you seem to be missing is this. The whole concept of doing what you just described, works in their favor by allowing them to play the game you see being played out now when people are asking for refunds. It's word games basically. It's vague and ambiguous. By buying into their pre-pay play the beta scheme, you are setting yourself up to be taken to the cleaners, just like you are seeing now.
Oh no, but everyone wants to jump on the wagon and feel special, I got a mug for donating $100, gee, I hope you really enjoy that $100 mug because that's all some people will get for their trouble. You are being sold dreams. Sure they may turn out ok, but then again, they may not. It's the mechanics of the ploy. It puts all the cards in their hands and your hands stand a good chance of ending up empty.
Ye but im kind of ok with it.....I know things can change in this type of thing...
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Decision was made, it has been explained, questions have been asked and answered, at one time I had a lot of sympathy for those affected.
Refunds for those who can't play.
I really don't see how or why there needs to be a thread at the top of the forum acting as a magnet for anyone who wants to have a go at the community.
You aren't venting at the company you are actually having a negative impact on the community now.
Take it to email, take it to a solicitor, sorry guys but that's the real world.
Frontier need to really seriously look at their community management right now, today, and bloody well put this to bed.
Refunds for those who can't play.
I really don't see how or why there needs to be a thread at the top of the forum acting as a magnet for anyone who wants to have a go at the community.
You aren't venting at the company you are actually having a negative impact on the community now.
Take it to email, take it to a solicitor, sorry guys but that's the real world.
Frontier need to really seriously look at their community management right now, today, and bloody well put this to bed.
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