No Single Player offline Mode then?

[Vagabund]

Yesterday I told a friend about FD's decision to cancel all effort towards offline mode, after he had preordered ED the other week.

He was furious; I am not going to repeat what he was saying, since this would lead to my post being censored.

I am curious now to see if he will get his refund, since he has never downloaded the client, let alone played the game.

As many had said, I am sure there is a huge crowd of people out there who don't even know about this new development and who are going to be very surprised on 16th December when they are looking for the offline mode in the game, after they fired it up for the first time.

 

[Clawhammer]

Will this game have private servers like star citizen? Maybe that would be a good solution. If you want to play offline host yourself server. Additionally you can have mods.

 

[phlOgistOn]

Sure? I have a suspicion, that "Instances" might get calculated on the same Server, maybe the same Core. If I think of the stutters, lags and other typical phenomenons I had in europe in single play... I hope you are right, and the code execution is totally seperated in gamma.

By the way, I'm still struggling if I should go for a refund, as I still hope they find a solution.

they'd have to be absolutely bonkers to try and run all of that from one server for everyone playing at the same time, I'd bet that it's locally instanced once they're in radar range - similarly to how the current pvp is instanced peer 2 peer between the involved parties.

It's a fair amount of unnecessary data and processing to send the combat information backwards and forwards to the server when your PC should be able to handle it easily.

 

[jabokai]

It's more investor than consumer in the case of KS.
You give your cash, you take the risk, you hope for a return that satisfies you.


If you think you belong in the consumer mentality, you should only buy finished products with stated completed features. You have all your protections as per any other purchase.

If we had taken that attitude at the beginning the game would not exist at all.

 

[mbabbs]

Will this game have private servers like star citizen? Maybe that would be a good solution. If you want to play offline host yourself server. Additionally you can have mods.

It won't.

 

[pantbash]

@Vagabund

He shoudl get a refund if he just pre-ordered the final game, since he won't have actually had chance to D/L it yet.
Which is fair and just.

If he signed up for BETA access, then things are probably in a bit more of a grey area.

 

[Zuikaku]

I just wanted to post a message here, not only for the players/backers but also for David and his team.

I understand that when a people back a game and then a feature listed is changed it's disappointing. If this change is done out of greed or selfish reasons then we all would have good grounds to complain. However I believe that FD have more than earned our trust and by earning that trust it should be reflected now.

I am genuinely embarrassed by some of the players on these forums and deeply saddened by how a change in a computer game can lead to such hateful and nasty comments. People talking about legal action, people talking about getting refunds, not playing the game and facing off via the forums like their life depended on it. Have you really got nothing else better to do?

I'm not David but after seeing what can come back at you for trying to make a game you love, I'd fully support him to just can the whole project. I'm seeing this kind of thing more and more, where a great community can be totally undermined by a few unpleasant individuals.

So here's a heads up, as a backer you do not own the game. You give money to the project knowing that you will never see that money again and trust the developer to make good on this project. Asking for a refund isn't a option and you also should know that money isn't sitting in a jam jar in the office, it's being poured into making this incredible and ambitious game, it can't just be handed back out.

Second, this change does rule out mod support for now but this was never an officially backed option anyway, this is just something you have assumed will be possible. The reasons for this change are solid, with single player games running all over the place, when these reconnect to the online universe it will cause problems. I'm not a tech or programmer and if I can understand that I'm sure others can.

The actual difference this makes to the game is minuscule, if you want to play with no players around you still can. Those saying this is like the DRM Ubisoft used, are you serious? This is nothing like it. Ubisoft and EA use DRM to force players to into their ecosystem (money) but FD are doing this for the pure and simple reason to make the gaming experience better, that's it.

I trust David and his team because you know what? They earned it. This will be an incredible game and I hope it's not marre but the entitled drama queens running up and down these forums like were at war.

Nice points. but you see, the problem is:

1. Offline standalone game was promised
2. Many people bought/supported/invested in the game based solely on that promise. Many people woul'd never ,ever backed the game if it was stated clearly from start that ED will be MMO "allways connected" only
3. Why woul'd offline game need to synch with online? Offline game needs only to download patches, updates, new ships and missions
4. People who want offline mode are not even interested to be synched with online galaxy
5. Offline standalone mode is not just some feature. It is the way Elite series is traditionally played and the only way some players prefer to play or are able to play
6. Since it become obvious that FDs do not intend to honour one of the major promises, that was how the problems started
7. FDs attittude on the matter only fuels this further and the whole situation strongly resembles on "Sim city can not function offline well"

 

[Clawhammer]

It won't.

gnaa i hate that, so much good online games went down but they never just released the serverfiles! :-(

 

[-c-s-]

Offline mode was never listed as a reward. I see from your forum history that you were an alpha KS backer but 100% of your posts have been on this topic. Sorry for the disappointment, but you were never "promised" offline mode as a reward. I guess you're one of those guys "offended on principle", which you have every right to be... Sorry that your investment didn't return all you wanted. If I had any influence on FD I'd have them offer to refund you the value of a retail copy of the game, since you won't be playing it post-release. Further than that I think you're reaching.

It most certainly was. The FAQ said offline play would be supported. A "Physical boxed DRM-free copy of the game" reward cannot be DRM-free if it has an always-on requirement.

 

[pantbash]

If we had taken that attitude at the beginning the game would not exist at all.

Are you sure?
"Investor" is the attitude I had when I came in at Premium BETA level.

(I would have KS'd but did not have the cash at that point.)

 

[Juniper]

I trust David and his team because you know what? They earned it. This will be an incredible game and I hope it's not marre but the entitled drama queens running up and down these forums like were at war.

They did earn it. It takes a lifetime to earn trust, and only a few seconds to destroy it.

Perception of Frontier (and by implication DB) is going to be the biggest fall-out from this.

And to blame the backers for that is disingenuous at best. We pledged in good faith, and if we hadn't, there would be no game at all - online, offline, or otherwise. Some of us are getting what we expected & backed for, but a significant number aren't. That significant number is... well... significant. It's got nothing to do with "entitlement" - I know full well where I (and every backer) stand in the grand scheme of things. Frontier have also confirmed this in their response to people asking for a refund on this issue, if there was any room for doubt on that.

Call me a drama queen if you want (I think that's actually Liqua's title & crown ) but this is a mess of Frontier's own making. Not the backers. And certainly not mine.

People leaping to Frontier's defence seem to have no other avenue available to them than mud slinging at the very people who feel ripped off, as though it's their fault they were hoodwinked.

I just hope you are never in that position.

 

[WeirdWizard]

It's more investor than consumer in the case of KS.
You give your cash, you take the risk, you hope for a return that satisfies you.


If you think you belong in the consumer mentality, you should only buy finished products with stated completed features. You have all your protections as per any other purchase.

No its not investing, investing gets you a share in the success of the company/product. A copy of the game is not a share in the success its a discreet item. If the game sells a thousand copies or a hundred million you still only get your one discreet item. Therefore its not "investing" its "preordering" or "backing" if you like but its not investing. You are still a consumer and you should still hold the company to account for their actions and the product they deliver.

 

[-c-s-]

If we had taken that attitude at the beginning the game would not exist at all.

That is the thing that I just don't understand. Elite : Dangerous would not even exist right now if it hadn't been for us kickstarter backers -- and most of the Frontier apologetics here are upset at us for speaking up and letting everyone know that their beloved Frontier is mistreating us.

 

[Rall]

And how would that help the guy from South Africa with his 250ms latency ???

EDIT: And you are aware that the other players in online on the same instance would either suffer from HIS latency, or you see him warping through space occasionaly crashing into ships when docking at a crowded port and so on.

Hope you lik it.

I am literally on the opposite side of the planet on rural DSL connection (Back water New Zealand) and I don't have any issues with latency or bandwidth for Solo Offline. Open play can be twitchy, but that largely works as well.

I feel for the people that backed for offline only, and they really should get a refund for the price of the retail game. But there's a lot of unsubstantiated claims based on emotion flying around.

Unless your actually on dial up, the game is completely playable half a world away.

 

[littleminxundr]

Well, it's not the game I helped crowd fund. Same for many others, reading the posts here.

I will be going to the launch party on Saturday with my 9 year old daughter, and I'll enjoy meeting as many people as possible there. People who I've chatted with, debated with, enjoyed the journey with over the last two years before Frontier poisoned the well & communicated at the last minute that everything was for naught. I may even go "Oooh" and "Aahhh" at the shiny that Frontier will show. After all, I've paid for the privilege and that money isn't going to come back... so I may as well try and enjoy it.

However the game itself is effectively dead for me. And it's not because I don't have good internet at home (I do) but because I wanted, and was led all along to believe I would get, a fully offline game that was only affected by me and nobody else. I wanted to explore the galaxy. My galaxy. Not one I have to share with the great unwashed and people who have more time to play than I have. Progression-based games only work when you're not having to compete with that - and even in so-called "solo" mode I'd still be doing it. I have zero interest in becoming an online statistic for Frontier Developments.

I have little interest in Star Citizen (although I pre-ordered the game) for the same reasons.

My focus, and the light at the end of my tunnel now is Limit Theory. An honest, upfront & transparent guy who is developing a game as a labour of love, and is not blinded by the false notion that you need other players in your game to make it fun, or profitable in a corporate way. I wish I'd put the majority of my money there, but at the time I trusted David Braben to deliver over an unknown. You live and learn.

I backed the game to a pretty high level, but to all intents and purposes, consider me an ex-backer. Enjoy your game... happily safe in the knowledge that without people like myself there would be no game for you to play.

All I would ask in return is that you remember how we were treated, and discarded. Particularly when the same thing happens to you in Elite's future.

Because it will. Count on it.

Oh yesssss, I have a long list of people I'm expecting to see back in a ragethread about something else in the future. I'm going to have so much fun. ^^
At that point, it will be €60 well spent.

 

[sbdags]

They did earn it. It takes a lifetime to earn trust, and only a few seconds to destroy it.

Perception of Frontier (and by implication DB) is going to be the biggest fall-out from this.

And to blame the backers for that is disingenuous at best. We pledged in good faith, and if we hadn't, there would be no game at all - online, offline, or otherwise. Some of us are getting what we expected & backed for, but a significant number aren't. That significant number is... well... significant. It's got nothing to do with "entitlement" - I know full well where I (and every backer) stand in the grand scheme of things. Frontier have also confirmed this in their response to people asking for a refund on this issue, if there was any room for doubt on that.

Call me a drama queen if you want (I think that's actually Liqua's title & crown ) but this is a mess of Frontier's own making. Not the backers. And certainly not mine.

People leaping to Frontier's defence seem to have no other avenue available to them than mud slinging at the very people who feel ripped off, as though it's their fault they were hoodwinked.

I just hope you are never in that position.

Yes this is of Frontier's making. It's their decision to drop a feature that others were expecting. And I'm behind people annoyed by it as the method of delivery has left people angry and confused.

I still back them on this decision as I want Elite to be made and introduced to a new generation of players. It's just some of the threats, drama, arm chair lawyering, delusion and misunderstanding in this thread cannot be ignored.

More alarming are the number of people jumping on the refund bandwagon - not because they are affected but because they don't like the way FD are handling the situation.

It is a very sad and sorry state of affairs and is destroying this community. What a shame that the best game to come out in recent years is effectively being poisoned.

 

[jabokai]

Are you sure?
"Investor" is the attitude I had when I came in at Premium BETA level.

(I would have KS'd but did not have the cash at that point.)

Yes I'm sure. The KS was set up to see if the game was wanted and viable, as much as to raise funds, according to FD (I accept that their word is now "suspect" but will carry on as if it's not). If all us KS people had said "I'm only going to buy a completed product" then no, the game would not have been made - The KS would have failed, FD would have dropped it (according to them).

 

[DaveB]

The Kool-aid guzzling sanctimonious fanboys are out in force today -

FD mis-led a lot of people. They were still mis-leading people a few weeks ago --- if FD had any integrity they would give refunds to anyone who wants one, no questions asked, and have the courage of their convictions.

If they have modelled the success of the game on the basis of its appeal to those who are happy to play always online, they have no business holding onto the funds of those who don't want to play a game of that nature.

Your [smug] recourse to technicalities is beside the point.

Since you began the ad-hominem, allow me to finish it. 50% of your forum posts have been in this thread and uniformly negative. Of the rest approximately 45% have been negative about the game and its mechanics and only 25% neutral. If you want out, go. We'll miss you in the wider galaxy. We'd all prefer you stuck around and enjoyed the game.

Or do you have some other motive for knocking here?

 

[cherbert]

No its not investing, investing gets you a share in the success of the company/product. A copy of the game is not a share in the success its a discreet item. If the game sells a thousand copies or a hundred million you still only get your one discreet item. Therefore its not "investing" its "preordering" or "backing" if you like but its not investing. You are still a consumer and you should still hold the company to account for their actions and the product they deliver.

The definition of investment is to purchase or pay an advance. (or to use, give, or devote (time, talent, etc.), as for a purpose or to achieve something). It clearly is an investment in lew of receiving a completed game to the specification promised. I didn't pledge for old times sake - I pledged to get a return. And that pledge was an investment.

The definition of invest or investment isn't reserved exclusively for the financial markets.

 

[noodle]

It most certainly was. The FAQ said offline play would be supported. A "Physical boxed DRM-free copy of the game" reward cannot be DRM-free if it has an always-on requirement.

This is what I object to. If I'd backed the game without rewards, and the off-line mode had been dropped.... I could live with it. But the premium box set, DRM free and playable off-line, was the specific incentive that made me drop £90 on the Kickstarter instead of, say, £50. Whatever way you want to spin the legal angle, FD offered me a reward as an incentive for my money. That reward is no longer forthcoming, but they still have my money. It's pretty hard not to feel like I've been mugged.

To complicate matters, I stumped up another £115 for alpha access. In a world where the premium box set, playable off-line, never existed, I'd have backed for about £50. In that world, I wouldn't have paid another £150 ish to access alpha. So it's messy. But then FD created this mess, so I'd like to see them offering at least some token gesture in recognition of the fact that a lot of us feel stitched up. I don't want or expect a full refund, but I'd like to at least see a gesture. My premium box set is now a door stop. I didn't want an ornament to sit on my shelf - I wanted a game I could install for nostalgia ten years down the line.