If I cheat offline, how does that hurt you exactly?
No Single Player offline Mode then?
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If I cheat offline, how does that hurt you exactly?
Oh an Solo/Group where no one see what happends there is an Open Door for Bots/Credit Farmer......
No problem with Login for License check/DRM and so...but BIG Problem with MMO ALLWAYS !!!!
And this last bit, is true of FD, they have made every effort to produce a satisfactory conclusion by giving us SOLO online and saying they will have archived snapshots to release upon the game funding ending. they have attempted to comply with this, you have indeed answered the question yourself.
I am not saying anything here is clear cut. It is very fuzzy. But people, are quoting this stuff in isolation (as you did) claiming it is clear cut and demanding refunds - it is not that easy or clear is my only point.
No it's well established that always-on DRM is a form of DRM that requires you to be always-on... not the same thing at all.
For example, always-on is a requirement for other software outside of gaming like Skype for example. But this isn't being used as DRM when you phone your mates through your PC. In gaming 'always-on DRM' and cloud gaming have been given a terrible reputation by Ubisoft and EA but if it's required for the service to work, then it's not necessarily DRM at all.
EDIT for the geeky math people
Always on DRM -> Always on AND DRM
Always on -/> Always on DRM
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CD Projekt RED, the company behind GOG.com, is doing quite well selling games and content with absolutely no DRM or activation.
Perhaps they figured something out that might be a benefit to others. Have you considered this perspective?
That's not what Tar Stone with the pretty vintage computer avatar is doing, no.
Not correct, since the offline pilot would be flying in the offline galaxy stored on the local machine, and the online pilot and galaxy is in the cloud.
And Why should I even buy Elite Dangerous when I can dowload a fully Offline working version precracked for free?
Then one could buy it if he/she wished a multiplayer dynamic world, events and stuff.
" Youre just attention making."
Of course we are. The attention to this little 'problem' needs to get out far and wide.
One was based on a concept, the other is a done fact. You misunderstand the KD was a conceptual plan... never a fact. Much like being a writer... you write and write, but the publisher removed a whole plotline for space, even though it was list one the writing plan... This is much the same thing.
Isn't it time to close this debate ??
Yes you may not hack the game.
yes you may not have one copy for 1000 people (their should pay for their own)
yes you need online connection to stay updated with the game world (what has been stated by the makers of this game...rest is you minds running wild).
please use your vivid ideas towards making a better game.
Yes this was a monologue
NOW ..how about that weather mmmm good me thinks
Yes you may not hack the game.
yes you may not have one copy for 1000 people (their should pay for their own)
yes you need online connection to stay updated with the game world (what has been stated by the makers of this game...rest is you minds running wild).
please use your vivid ideas towards making a better game.
Yes this was a monologue
NOW ..how about that weather
mmmm good me thinks Do you believe they have already completed the technology that allows for complete server archives that can be run stand alone? Because I don't believe so. I believe that is a future feature they are planning and hoping for, much like they were planning and hoping for an offline mode. In many ways, they are extremely similar. They are now saying they can't and won't try to deliver the first one, but they will in future ... try to deliver the second thing.
Regarding trust, it IS the same thing. You cannot ask someone who has lost their faith in you for more of the same. Not without showing some reason they should give trust back to you.
It's not an entirely different back end. Many server/client games run a server and client in the same executable when offline. It's simply much easier to do it that one way than to do it both ways.
It's not strictly relevant right now, but I was a game developer between 1998 and 2004 (thereabouts). I have three or four triple-A titles in my resumé, depending on how you count.
That's not the only argument, but I won't repeat them all again.
That's far too easy to say, especially when you think you've gotten your way already.
I don't recall FD and Braben promising almost continuously for 23 months that cargo limpets would be in the game, only to pull them without warning a month before release. Seriously, apply your logic to ANY OTHER game feature. Imagine for a moment that, instead of losing offline mode, last Friday's newsletter had offhandedly mentioned that because of tough design decisions they had to code the game to only allow five players per instance but hey, don't worry, because all those other thousands of people will be out there affecting your in-game experience with all their market transactions, mining activities, and deep space exploration. But you can still play with four other people, isn't that great?
Saying, "the product is being delivered, just not as you would like it" is like putting down money on a new-model sports car to reserve it, only to find out that they had to swap out its 10-cylinder turbocharged engine with a four-cylinder hybrid engine because of tough design decisions. "Well yes, we did say it would have a 10-cylinder DinoJuice Thruster, but when we actually started assembling it we discovered we could only fit this 4-cylinder Family EconoSpecial under the hood. But hey, look at this great spoiler on the back, isn't that great?"
I have, in fact, heard of feature creep, and a good development team doesn't wait until the project is 95% complete (23/24 months) to let their customer know that a feature they've promised all along is being dropped. FD made this game. They started down this road in January 2013 and to make it sound like they suddenly looked around in November 2014 and realized, "Uh oh. Uh... Did anyone remember to pack the offline mode in the car?" is flatly ridiculous. They knew offline mode was in trouble a long time ago (by their own admission!) and never said one word, never dropped one hint, letting people pre-order based on what they literally knew were product features that were likely to not be in the final product.
I don't want to see E : D crash and burn either, but this bad press is of their own making. Do you honestly feel like everyone who's affected by this should just shut up and take it?
Funny how, depending of the point of view, rights and duties can be "one-way only" sometimes, but should never be in other cases.
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They make it right by giving me back my money OR recommitting to delivering what they promised to deliver.
You need to go back and read what you originally wrote before trying to spin it to look like you are somehow the victim here. But to take your points:
Again, I would like to see numbers on feedback driving the loss of offline. As has been said many, many times it would be easy to have a disconnected, local game and any universe-wide updates can be applied as downloads or patches that we can choose to apply whenever we want. But if you have anything that backs up your claim that in effect the community "steered" FD down the road of abandoning a clear original game goal then I would be intrigued to see it.
The thread is only here because of the actions of FD - ergo no bad faith from FD > no thread > no publicity. You are simply victim blaming.
I never said you said "get refunds and go" I quoted your statement "if you want to leave and ask refunds and whatever, just go and leave the rest of the community" which is clearly nothing like your revisionist claim to request we go to a different thread and ask for a refund. The words "leave", "go" and "leave" again are kind of damning in their simplicity.
Your last statement is absurdly absurd, to the extent that it makes absurd look reasonable. Especially as you tell me to get a refund in one line and then tell me I'm punishing you if I ask for a refund in the very next line. But to top it all it is simple maths - if those of us that want offline single player are such a minority then it should be trivial for FD to refund our money, if however FD cannot afford to give that money back then we are hardly insignificant and it is unreasonable to dismiss our opinions.
I call misogynistic straw manning. It is nothing like that at all. With your analogy it would be more like saying well the poor would never have been convicted if you hadn't have made a complain to the police after he assaulted you"
Correct, a feature that I was not wanting to use, did not care about it in the slightest. I wanted a modern Elite that I could enjoy at my own pace on my own terms. It didn't matter to me that others were excited about the multiplayer feature because Frontier had committed to offline support.
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Glad they let you out. Us poor kickstarter saps are still being held hostage.
I suspect what the newsletter is referring to here is largely the feedback in the DDF threads where certain game design topics were discussed.
To be fair, each one (and most are now on the DDA so you can go look if you're not in the DDF yourself) was framed in such a way as to imply an entirely multiplayer experience.
If I was smarter than I am, or less trusting than I was, I would probably have noticed it at the time.
I feel you are either too deep in your indignation to listen, or just stirring up trouble for it's own sake.
They tried to make Offline viable, and i didn't happen. It's sheer paranoia to assume they knew half a year ago or more, and only decided to tell us at the last moment. I'm in game development myself (indie) and that is how goals and sprints work. You keep working on a wanted feature, until you meet some show stopper, or have to face that the effort is too much compared to the added value, and the compromises that have to be made regarding the core features.
Off-line was a bonus they thought they could deliver. They couldn't, it turns out. All software projects have things like this.
Everybody who has descended into paranoia about deliberate misleading and ill-intent is living in a very dark world full of threats and betrayal. I'm sorry you feel like that, but there really is no reason to assume malice where failure of honest effort is the simplest explanation.
No, it's not.
I'm not going to push for a refund, but I'll admit to being absolutely gutted.
The thing is, sooner or later, I know it's going to happen. I'll get home from a long day at work, log in to play, be in there for maybe an hour or two, and then the game will just quit to desktop. Maybe my internet will have gone down, or their servers will be offline. Unscheduled maintenance, perhaps, or they might have crashed, but either way, it'll be midnight their time, and there goes the rest of my evening.
I'll load up the following morning before work, though, at which time I realise my character has reset to basically where he was before, and I'm down a couple of million credits.
But no, by all means, feel free to prove how obtuse you are by not being willing to consider how this might impact other people.
So let's not close this debate. It needs to continue. Again, I am gutted beyond words.
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