Non-flat maps

[ElectricMonk]

I have posted this in a longer post about general thoughts from the beta, but this is a big one for me, so i thought I'd post it here too.

I'm concerned that starting maps, especially in franchise mode, will all be flat to begin with. - This is less an issue in sandbox, since (I'm guessing) we'll be able to effectively get pre-terraformed maps from the workshop (as saved games without any infrastructure / animals that people upload). I'm also guessing that we'll be unable to use other player's saved zoos in franchise, which is fine, except that it would mean that all starting maps in franchise will be flat.

To me this is a concern, because I enjoy trying to fit a zoo into a pre-existing landscape - in franchise I won't want to spend lots of money and time terraforming at the start just to get an interesting map.... I think this could be easily implemented by allowing sandbox zoos without any infrastructure, animals etc. (i.e., only terraforming, plants, rocks and some effects, e.g., waterfalls) to be uploaded to Steam as starter maps for franchise. That way, the devs wouldn't even have to commit time to map design - the community would sort it out (I can guarantee that I'd upload at least a couple). For example, in Cities: Skylines, there's a whole group of people (and a YouTube channel) devoted to starter map design, which makes the game much more playable.

My fear is that, if all starter maps are flat, with only trees, that each new zoo I start in franchise will be a similar experience, only differing in how animals are affected by climatic variables... This would make things get a bit stale after just a couple of zoos. I'd like to spend time figuring out the best way to work with pre-exisiting hills, rocky outcrops, lakes and rivers that I haven't necessarily shaped precisely to my liking.

I don't think this'd be very hard to implement, so I really hope its an option.

 

[Missschele]

This is also something I’ve always found strange, even in Planco. It feels so weird that everything outside of the zoo is completely and perfectly flat, without any trees! But I suppose filling it with trees would look silly in some diomes and would also make it hard on our systems...?

 

[Anduin6320]

On the opposite side of the bench, I ALWAYS terraform the maps to be perfectly flat, I personally hate all the hills and bumps. So maybe a tick box option to have a flat map or terraformed map maybe?

 

[HipsterJesus42]

I am very concerned about this as well. Flat maps have bothered me since RCT3. Understandably, they should be flat in sandbox. It's sandbox. You can terraform for free and you were spot on about eventually being able to just download player maps. However Franchise is supposed to be about "real" zoos you start. I can't imagine the starting plots for very many real zoos had next to no foliage and less hills than the salt flats. My local zoo is all hills and forest. It's much nicer than the vast emptiness you see the second you turn away from an exhibit in planet zoo.

 

[[VR] Deggial]

I strongly agree with this!

Actually, I've made this suggestion already as part of a multiple-whishes post, but wanted to emphasize the proposal in a dedicated thread - now as I have played the beta.

My suggestion was, to implement a basic procedural generation tool (no complicated noise patterns would be needed), which would create some hills and valleys at the start of a new zoo (only if desired, of course).
Very little options would be neccesary: seed, width of the hills/mountains (basically the horizontal scaling) and also their hight. Boom, done!
If those values could be altered on the fly with the result displayed in real-time, even better!
Additional refinements, such as hight-dependent tree placement and ground textures as well as lakes placed in terrain depressions would just be the icing on the cake.

The thing is (and I could confirm this during the beta), that ...
a) Even as it is possibel to build up hills and cave out canyons, it takes away quite some money from the zoo's balance.
b) The terraforiming tools are adequately sized for small (enclousure sized) ground alterations. Larger hills are way more difficult, resulting in uneven surfaces and require lots of smoothing.
c) As @ElectricMonk mentioned, it has its own appeal (and a huge one for me as well!) to incorporate a given shape into a zoo layout. This is not possible, if every embossment is completely dependent on the player's action.

Alternatively (or additionally?), I would love to be able to load a player-created surface when starting a new zoo. Maybe something like this will already be possible at launch, simply by continuing an empty WS zoo.
A dedicated option while starting the zoo would just feel better, though.

 

[Jeminyne]

I can't believe I forgot about this. I was recently playing Roller Coaster Tycoon 1, and the scenario-mode maps in Zoo Tycoon 1. Those maps are rarely flat or sparse - you'd have to build your parks on a mountainside, in craggy cliffs, around a river, on islands in the middle of a lake, or in a crater! (This was something desperately missing from Zoo Tycoon 2, RCT3, and Planet Coaster...) I think it'd be great if certain maps in Planet Zoo were like this. Especially career mode. But I totally understand that the career maps are finalized already, most likely. Maybe for a future DLC or expansion? One can only hope.

 

[Merit Selket]

personaly I would like to keep the flat maps, since I prefer to do my own landscaping. I found the landscaping tools very powerful, especialy those shapes. sure it will take a while because we need to earn the money, but for someone like me it would cost double the money, I need to flatten it all and do the landscaping again the way I want it

 

[xOEDragonx]

I would agree, If love the option to start with either a flat map it a pre-terraformed map. In ZT2, I would always clear a map and flatten it before starting my zoo. But then, my zoos always turned out the same-- geometric shapes pens, few or no hills for maximum viewing pleasure, and just so routine. I found that when I started with a terraformed map, I started building more unique zoos. Since I was working with the terrain, pens were all different shapes, there were limited but unique views in each habitat and I felt more like I was building a real zoo. With Planet Zoo, I imagine the uniqueness of such zoos for me will be tenfold. Playing in the beta franchise, I went straight back into my habit of building rectangular pens. Sure, I terraformed the heck out of the terrain in those pens, but everything was still do block. Something about unique terrain just brings out my creativity. So I'd love the option to start a zoo with either.... without having to spend all my franchise money to make unique ground before even starting.

 

[[VR] Deggial]

@Merit Selket:

The flat start wouldn’t go away, of course. The “landscape start” would be an additional option, not a replacement. (And even if so, a ‘hight = 0’ would equal a completely flat plain).
There is nothing to say against the desire to have control over every little or large aspect of the game! The control wouldn’t go away with an initial landscape anyway! All modeling would still be possible!

However, it is equally satisfying to look at a given shape and wonder, how to use it. How could this lake be integrated into my new zoo? Wouldn’t this mountain be perfect for a restaurant/food area? What if I build a bridge over this canyon?

I’ve compared this approach to a wood-carver who tries to find out how to “free the inherent form” from a piece of wood he turns in his hands.
The building up from nothing equals more the potter’s approach who starts with an unstructured mass.

Both approaches are equally fun and valid.
But only one of them is currently possible in Planet Zoo.