Non-instantaneous ship transfer is not a grind / time sink / doesn't keep you from playing the game, but instead is a great improvement over the curre

[Arubeto]

Of course I can. When I arrive at the station.

I am sorry, I think I don't get your point. How can you take advantage of any available gameplay when you are busy fetching your other ship? This time frees up with ship transfers, even with non-instantaneous, which is why I call it a time-saver. Calling it a time sink only holds true if you compare it to the possible future with instant ship transfer.

Whether or not it's an improvement in either case isn't the point, it's how instant transfer impacts on your game and your fun.

Actually, that's not the point I was talking about when opening this thread, but I can go with it for this discussions sake.

It doesn't, because you can ignore it, or replicate delay if you wish. You clearly appear to be someone who likes playing multiple aspects of Elite, so you can do that to pass the time. Not everyone plays the same as you though.

I think here is where I fundamentally disagree with you. I want ship transfer! I want it very much, I even opened a thread requesting it over a year ago, if memory serves. So I don't want to have to compensate a implementation I conceive as lackluster by self-imposing game rules that are not in the game. As soon as something just slightly competitive - like Powerplay or a CG - comes into play, I can't even afford to self-impose this delay upon myself if I want to stand a chance against other commanders making use of instant transfer. So yes, I think having instant ship transfers will indeed impact the fun I have, even if I'd go with self-imposing delivery delays just for me.

This is why I think cost is a better restriction than time, sliding based on ship cost. Pitching cost at the right level that makes it affordable but not spammable, giving freedom and access to the majority while preventing abuse (and possibly place caps on amount of cargo that can be transferred, if at all, and absolutely no UA/UPs allowed to prevent bombing without effort).

This is where I have to respectfully disagree again. In-game money rarely works as a balancing factor, because it loses value so fast, and doesn't mean anything to some commanders who more or less used every exploit ever found in the game to become billionaires over night. Time, on the other hand, can't be bought and is of the same high value to everyone.

 

[Gozer]

Non-instantaneous ship transfer between stations would not be another time sink or grind! Instead, it would be a great improvement over the current situation without any ship transfer at all. You wouldn't have to first manually fly to your other ships location and then bring it back yourself but rather just initiate the transfer from wherever you are and then go about your business, pursuing any activity you want with your current ship while the requested ship gets transferred in the background. You don't have to idly sit in the station, waiting for your other ship to arrive, but are free to do whatever you want.

While I see your point, I'm not a fan of this kind of mechanic and I just proposed an alternative solution here.

Just for fun, and to digress a bit, my dream would actually be having these services implemented as player activities.

Imagine having a "service channel" in the cockpit to receive service calls and having player taxis to move CMDRs around, fuel rats, player owned large transport ships, etc.

Would be too complicated as there are more important things to do but, well, dreaming is still free.

 

[wenkman]

didn't agree on the other thread, don't agree here.

• if transfer with delay is a slowdown or speedup depends on the reference.
  • compared to the current situation it is a tremendous speedup,
  • compared to the plans a delay would be a small slowdown.

• a delay in RTS games always represent a cost for a strategic value. that means for a artificial delay i have to get a strategic return of some sorts.
  • the time delay till security forces arrive, the delay for SCB Kick-In, delay for reload etc.
  • not the delay for mission screen and Hyperjump, these are unnecessary as NPCs are not affected and players are not equally affected
  • a time delay would have strategic value if i could switch ships mid-flight. in stations the time delay provides no return value (cost with no return value -> not good in my book)

a whole other reason can be immersion, i don't have an opinion on that.
(and before someone says, the strategic return is my ship: i can fetch it myself, that costs time. i can't pay with time for time saving, that#s absurd)

(and i think the majority is pro delay, so i take it as given that there will be a delay. i don't like it but i can accept it)

 

[Gimi]

didn't agree on the other thread, don't agree here.
A time delay would have strategic value if i could switch ships mid-flight. in stations the time delay provides no return value (cost with no return value -> not good in my book)

And here I disagree.
First I'm going to be a little pedantic. There is a difference between tactical and strategic.
Changing ships mid-flight would have a tactical value.
A time delay would have a strategic value. It would keep elements such as positioning your ships in the galaxy, what ship to use, what wepons and equipment to fit. It would keep an element of planning ahead. (In the military sense this is actually not strategic, but operational level of planning. Strategic goes into the realms of long term logistics and political planning).
The question then becomes, is this something FD wants ad we as players want. I know I do.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Buildings in RTS games aren't build instantaneous. Traversing levels in adventure games isn't instantaneous. Moving your units from on end of the playing field to other isn't instantaneous in turn-based games. Apart from keeping the immersion, delayed actions have gameplay reasons. In ED it would allow for an additional strategic element, where you already get benefits from the mechanic if you use it as it is, but can get even more out of it if you plan ahead a little, something that additionally rewards thinking commanders. Can't see the evil in this.

With the difference being that the 'thinking' and 'strategy' parts are a bit more... engaging in RTS games than in ED. in RTS games, effectively timing things IS the gameplay. I'm all for adding challenges, 'rewarding thinking commanders' and adding 'tactical' or 'strategic options/plans. But this is not that, and I sincerely doubt you really think delayed transfer is engaging and mentally challenging gameplay. Its about immersion. Thats it. There's nothing wrong with that, its important to many people including me. But we should really stop pretending delayed transfer adds good gameplay, because it doesnt. The 'evil' part is that I cannot properly take part in impromptu ED sessions with mates. This would mostly fix that, while still forcing me to travel there, which is good IMHO.

The whole 'it will lead to griefing/cheating' etc screaming in the other topic is . The supposed 'gameplay enhancement' of adding timers is . Instant transfers obviously add gameplay in the sense that you can actually get to the gameplay part rather than hide it behind 40 loading srceens. But yes, it does break immersion (like many other things do, btw). The real and honest question is: how much gameplay is immersion worth. And that one is answered differently by each of us. But as soon as we start dragging made-up arguments into this debate it loses all meaning to the devs. They are not interested in more 'griefer-scaremongering', but they probably would like to know how 'badly' this breach of immersion is, and the simplest way to minimize that. They dont have infinite time and resources, so proposals should be simple and to the point, with clearly laid-down arguments why it is better *without* insulting and name-calling everyone who does like the idea of instant transfer, and while taking the arguments of the devs seriously.

"Devs are stupid, all players who want this are entitled-kiddy-xbox-griefers and FD should work on this very elaborate alternative that'll probably annoy the heck out of the majority of the community' is not quality feedback, and to much of this type is floating around at the moment.

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A time delay would have a strategic value. It would keep elements such as positioning your ships in the galaxy, what ship to use, what wepons and equipment to fit. It would keep an element of planning ahead. (In the military sense this is actually not strategic, but operational level of planning. Strategic goes into the realms of long term logistics and political planning).
The question then becomes, is this something FD wants ad we as players want. I know I do.

Yeah, because having my fleet appear in 15 minutes rather than 0 is totally going to change... what exactly? What deep strategic planning do you have in minds? And I mean real gameplay, not hollow words like 'elements such as positioning your ships in the galaxy, what ship to use, what wepons and equipment to fit' because I dont see how that relates to 'waiting 15 minutes'.

 

[Cupcake]

Perhaps this thread gets closed or merged with that other mega-thread, but I hope it doesn't, because even though it has been explained countless times in that other thread, it seems to get overlooked by people entering the discussion for the first time because they don't want to read 300+ pages, and therefore should be a little more visible :

Non-instantaneous ship transfer between stations would not be another time sink or grind! Instead, it would be a great improvement over the current situation without any ship transfer at all. You wouldn't have to first manually fly to your other ships location and then bring it back yourself but rather just initiate the transfer from wherever you are and then go about your business, pursuing any activity you want with your current ship while the requested ship gets transferred in the background. You don't have to idly sit in the station, waiting for your other ship to arrive, but are free to do whatever you want.

Instead of being "another time sink", like I keep reading, it would actually be a great time saver, freeing you from fetching your other ships yourself.

I hope this doesn't get merged, because it tends to get lost in that other threadnought!

I chuckle when I see people ramble on about things breaking immersion or for "realism"........ Firstly, if its realism you are after ditch Elite, it is NOT realistic, just a vision. Secondly, those going on about instant ships, well the NPC's already have them and have been using them for ages to do the insta interdictions and that nice little trick of following you even though they should not be able to....... People are SO upset over this its ridiculous. In the great scheme of things it matters not one jot, if YOU want to pretend it takes longer, go ahead, I for one will be glad I dont have to jump over 200LY to get my trusty asp or courier.

 

[goemon]

if you want to discuss instant transfer pros or cons, and non-instant tarsfer pros or cons, please use this thread: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...-Instant-Ship-and-Module-Transport-Yay-or-Nay

closing as duplicate.