Nonviolent Heist Missions

[smbell]

I was pretty sure that the overload of the energy tool counted as "lethal" damage. Has anyone successfully completed these missions?

I tried once already to be sneaky and clone someone without them seeing me, but the AI behavior is so erratic, that it's difficult to gauge the timing and I got busted and the whole place aggro'd on me.

The second time I got scanned, passed. Walked down the hall and then ran back past the guy again and he tried to scan me a second time, like 10 seconds later and since I was running, I was already too far past him and the whole place aggro'd on me. This is starting to become a chore.

 

[ferus]

The Crime and punishment system is terrible. Everything is punished by death only, there is no leeway.
If you combine it with the unpredictable and buggy AI you will be frustrated. Just like I am.
That‘s why I tend to avoid all settlements (which is the biggest part of new content) - you never know what the AI will do when it sees you.

 

[smbell]

I'm all for a challenge, but these missions are just nearly impossible if not 100% impossible, at least with the layout I have been getting. I get scanned by EVERY, SINGLE, COMMANDO.

I actually was able to sneak behind a scientist and clone their profile... now there is one door into the power room where I need to get the item. Guarded by a commando, who scans me EVERY TIME I get near the door.

If I have the profile I need to get in the door, then I get busted.

It would be different if I could try again, but with the current C&P system, you can't. It's just a combination of way too many factors making this a really sucky experience.

 

[Factabulous]

I'm having issues even doing the ones where you are allowed to kill - the sample I need is guarded by an NPC who never moved away enough that I can access the sample without it being heard. I wouldn't mind so much but it's 5 minutes of sneaking followed by 30 minutes of getting a new mission, so I'm not sure I'm even making progress.

 

[smbell]

I'm having issues even doing the ones where you are allowed to kill - the sample I need is guarded by an NPC who never moved away enough that I can access the sample without it being heard. I wouldn't mind so much but it's 5 minutes of sneaking followed by 30 minutes of getting a new mission, so I'm not sure I'm even making progress.

100 percent. The only missions I've been able to do are the settlement raids, basic grab an item and the power restore missions.

I have spent more time running to the shuttle and riding in the shuttle then I have actually playing the missions.

 

[Factabulous]

Should probably ask @Ydiss to post his advice - and see if they think it's similar to the alpha. I seemed to have more joy with them then - though I think that was more data-theft missions.

 

[Milkman76]

I had a mission to go pick up some biological samples. Nonviolent, no criminal actions. My first on foot mission. I show up at the facility, which grants me permission to land. I walk over and find all doors are locked and closed, clearance level 1. I walk the entire facility, every door is closed and secured. Cant get in. I assume Im supposed to break in, despite the mission not saying anything about illegal acts? I cut a panel, overcharge the door, go in. The mission disappears. All objectives are gone, and the mission isnt in my transactions folder anymore, completed or failed. Its just gone.

Im confused, and looking at my transactions screen when the guards instantly kill me. Im outside, in a non-secured area, no alarms, and a guard had tried to scan me - again, for like the 10th time since I had been at the facility - but.... my back was turned so I was "refusing a scan" and instantly killed.

This is a waste of my time.

 

[Ydiss]

I'm having issues even doing the ones where you are allowed to kill - the sample I need is guarded by an NPC who never moved away enough that I can access the sample without it being heard. I wouldn't mind so much but it's 5 minutes of sneaking followed by 30 minutes of getting a new mission, so I'm not sure I'm even making progress.

If an NPC never moves from a mission object then that needs to be changed (and my guess is with the high number of settlements and the variations of NPC routes/paths/spawns, there's a chance this might happen). There has to be a period of time long enough to let you activate it and grab it when it's done without getting detected. I have witnessed some bugs with NPC behaviour (the other night, the entire settlement was bugged, no NPC had moved from their start point - it was funny but it reset when the location reset).

I'd be really interested to know which mission and where though. Not saying I can do it but I'd definitely like to look at it.

I was pretty sure that the overload of the energy tool counted as "lethal" damage. Has anyone successfully completed these missions?

I tried once already to be sneaky and clone someone without them seeing me, but the AI behavior is so erratic, that it's difficult to gauge the timing and I got busted and the whole place aggro'd on me.

The second time I got scanned, passed. Walked down the hall and then ran back past the guy again and he tried to scan me a second time, like 10 seconds later and since I was running, I was already too far past him and the whole place aggro'd on me. This is starting to become a chore.

Energy tool is lethal damage so you don't use it on a non-violent heist.

Yes, I've had a lot of success with these missions. I spent a lot of time learning how to do them in the alpha. They're challenging sometimes. But very fun. The issue is, you need to understand the rules of how to avoid detection. Only two ways of learning something, learn it yourself or learn it from someone else; I spent many hours working it out myself (although I spent a lot of that time really testing the limits of stuff, like "what happens if I do this? Ok now if I do it like this?" and I don't think that's necessary to complete most missions). I'll be putting a lot of videos together with guides on these but, as you can imagine... there's a ton of settlements and scenarios and that's a lot of video footage to record.

I can at least point you in the direction of my channel and you're welcome to watch the guides I did from Alpha, because they cover a lot of the basics. If you'd like?

I had a mission to go pick up some biological samples. Nonviolent, no criminal actions. My first on foot mission. I show up at the facility, which grants me permission to land. I walk over and find all doors are locked and closed, clearance level 1. I walk the entire facility, every door is closed and secured. Cant get in. I assume Im supposed to break in, despite the mission not saying anything about illegal acts? I cut a panel, overcharge the door, go in. The mission disappears. All objectives are gone, and the mission isnt in my transactions folder anymore, completed or failed. Its just gone.

Im confused, and looking at my transactions screen when the guards instantly kill me. Im outside, in a non-secured area, no alarms, and a guard had tried to scan me - again, for like the 10th time since I had been at the facility - but.... my back was turned so I was "refusing a scan" and instantly killed.

This is a waste of my time.

This is just not understanding what things mean. You absolutely have to do criminal actions to complete these tasks. I don't think it stipulates that you cannot. Some say you cannot be detected (covert), some say nonviolent (no killing). But you have all the tools to do what they need. If breaking rules is a problem for you, you'll need to try to find a system that gives you missions to anarchy settlements where you're "against" criminals.

I'd just ignore that and have fun, personally. I love the stealth and infiltration mechanics of Odyssey.

 

[Ydiss]

The Crime and punishment system is terrible. Everything is punished by death only, there is no leeway.
If you combine it with the unpredictable and buggy AI you will be frustrated. Just like I am.
That‘s why I tend to avoid all settlements (which is the biggest part of new content) - you never know what the AI will do when it sees you.

Avoiding settlements is basically like avoiding planets in Horizons. Kind of worse, actually... you actually have space in Horizons.

 

[Factabulous]

If an NPC never moves from a mission object then that needs to be changed (and my guess is with the high number of settlements and the variations of NPC routes/paths/spawns, there's a chance this might happen). There has to be a period of time long enough to let you activate it and grab it when it's done without getting detected.

The two cases I had were Sample retrieval missions where the container takes ~ 5 minutes to open - the guard seemed to be just going around and around the sample container. ofc I only watched them do it twice before I got bored, so they might gone for a tea break after loop 2 I waited for them to be the other side of the container (behind a pillar) and activated it, but they seemed to hear that and aggro. I'm tempted to just kite them away for 5 minutes and go back to pick it up.

 

[smbell]

I can at least point you in the direction of my channel and you're welcome to watch the guides I did from Alpha, because they cover a lot of the basics. If you'd like?

That would be awesome. I'd love to check it out.

I also have no issues figuring stuff out for myself, but the way the system is setup, it makes it extremely difficult and counterproductive to do so. I'm picking up tidbits here and there, but at this point the game is more a shuttle ride simulator.

 

[Milkman76]

If an NPC never moves from a mission object then that needs to be changed (and my guess is with the high number of settlements and the variations of NPC routes/paths/spawns, there's a chance this might happen). There has to be a period of time long enough to let you activate it and grab it when it's done without getting detected. I have witnessed some bugs with NPC behaviour (the other night, the entire settlement was bugged, no NPC had moved from their start point - it was funny but it reset when the location reset).

I'd be really interested to know which mission and where though. Not saying I can do it but I'd definitely like to look at it.



Energy tool is lethal damage so you don't use it on a non-violent heist.

Yes, I've had a lot of success with these missions. I spent a lot of time learning how to do them in the alpha. They're challenging sometimes. But very fun. The issue is, you need to understand the rules of how to avoid detection. Only two ways of learning something, learn it yourself or learn it from someone else; I spent many hours working it out myself (although I spent a lot of that time really testing the limits of stuff, like "what happens if I do this? Ok now if I do it like this?" and I don't think that's necessary to complete most missions). I'll be putting a lot of videos together with guides on these but, as you can imagine... there's a ton of settlements and scenarios and that's a lot of video footage to record.

I can at least point you in the direction of my channel and you're welcome to watch the guides I did from Alpha, because they cover a lot of the basics. If you'd like?


This is just not understanding what things mean. You absolutely have to do criminal actions to complete these tasks. I don't think it stipulates that you cannot. Some say you cannot be detected (covert), some say nonviolent (no killing). But you have all the tools to do what they need. If breaking rules is a problem for you, you'll need to try to find a system that gives you missions to anarchy settlements where you're "against" criminals.

I'd just ignore that and have fun, personally. I love the stealth and infiltration mechanics of Odyssey.

What do you mean "this is just not understanding what things mean"? I have 5000 hours in ED, and I am familiar.... with how Fdev build their systems... Quite familiar. I understand the rules present in anarchy vs non-anarchy systems, yes.

Are you saying I missed something? Maybe the mission was actually an illegal acts mission, but it wasnt labeled as such? There was NOTHING about being detected, covert, nonviolent, etc. It was "pick up bio samples from a facility", period. If it was supposed to have other details, those details should be present in the mission details page.

Maybe one door at the facility was unlocked for me, but I missed it despite walking the entire facility? Maybe I should expect being scanned by guards 10x (or 100x if I stick around long enough), and that this makes sense in any way? Why would guards, all connected to the same network, need to scan me over and over?

Ignore it and have fun??? Have you played Odyssey? The list of game-breaking nonsense is a mile long, and we arent even talking about FPS issues and server disconnects.

 

[Ydiss]

What do you mean "this is just not understanding what things mean"?

Do you want help?

The two cases I had were Sample retrieval missions where the container takes ~ 5 minutes to open - the guard seemed to be just going around and around the sample container. ofc I only watched them do it twice before I got bored, so they might gone for a tea break after loop 2 I waited for them to be the other side of the container (behind a pillar) and activated it, but they seemed to hear that and aggro. I'm tempted to just kite them away for 5 minutes and go back to pick it up.

Can you rememeber where? If they looped once then that tends to be "it" in my experience. I've had workers walk right past a containment case as it was happily counting down to open and it wasn't an issue but if they are never far enough away to let you open it without them hearing that then that's an issue.

That would be awesome. I'd love to check it out.

I also have no issues figuring stuff out for myself, but the way the system is setup, it makes it extremely difficult and counterproductive to do so. I'm picking up tidbits here and there, but at this point the game is more a shuttle ride simulator.

My first "guide video" about grabbing power regulators without getting a fine/bounty (and the power regulator can be used in upgrades etc):

Source: https://youtu.be/uu6hkG1wo5c


I then did one on infiltrating an industrial complex, useful for getting materials (but there are also missions in these locations too):

Source: https://youtu.be/y0JK88j2dn0


There are some more but that should be enough to get you going with (apologies for the low quality mic, that's since been remedied!). As I said, I'm going to put together some updated versions at some point. I had written a big post about stealth and it had a long bullet list of "dos" and "don'ts". It's now lost because the alpha forum was archived but I kept the text saved locally.

This is it... It's long, a lot of it was me "working stuff out" and may be out of date now (I just skimmed it and definitely, there's some of it that's either not spot on or out of date and this is about raiding a settlement just for mats, not doing a heist mission - though once I'd worked all this out, doing those was a lot of fun). So be aware of that...

• Stolen materials work for upgrading.
• The Maverick suit is great for infiltration. It has the largest carry space (the most important part if you're looking for stolen materials), the power lasts for ages and you shouldn't need weapons at all (and for Covert assassinations I am sure the two weapons will suffice, but I'll check back on that when I try one - edit: I've now completed a covert assassination and you only need use the Overcharge energylink attack to kill the target, provided you get them before they raise shields).
• Settlement guards or workers will take an interest in you if they see you. Guards will take an interest no matter where they see you but I got the impression workers are less bothered unless you're in a building.
• If you're carrying any device or gun this is a quick way to get shot. Keep your items holstered at all times, until you need them.
• Crouching is, as with many games, the default way of "sneaking".
• Light level does seem to have an impact on whether you get spotted. Crouching has no impact if you're in a well-lit room and NPCs will spot you from further away. Equally, darkness doesn't protect you fully if you're right in front and too close. Crouching and keeping to the shadows as much as possible is key. Line of sight is the primary factor.
• If you passive scan any NPC (hover your crosshair over them, no action required) then they'll appear as a grey dot on your radar (top-left). This is a really important part of infiltration because you can better track the movements of NPCs if they're visible on your radar. Passive scanning doesn't alert NPCs in any scenario but if you want to remain undetected you still want to do this when well hidden. I call this "tagging" an npc.
• The best way to navigate any settlement is via the roof-tops (this is well documented by now I think) or the perimeter of the settlement. I've found that even flying through the air directly above guards will usually keep you undetected, though I don't tend to risk this when I can avoid it.
• The best way to jump for as long as possible is to jump once and then, as you reach the peak of the jump, tap the jump key lightly once, then again and keep doing this in a measured way. Don't spam it and don't hold it down. This lets you jump much, much further. A quick sprint before the first jump will also give you more air time as will, obviously, jumping from a higher point initially.
• The NPCs tend to follow a set route through the settlement. Workers will mostly be located in buildings and all of them have their own exact path they will always take on infinite loop. Learning these paths is essential.
• Guards follow different routes to workers and some guards will be inside but they're equally predictable once you learn the path (and they tend to be more predictable... you expect a guard outside a building to patrol the front of the building, they don't tend to deviate much from this).
• The odd worker will route from one building to another - these can often provide an unwelcome interruption that you're not prepared for as these routes tend to take a longer time and so aren't easy to spot quickly. Tag these outdoor workers if you see them. There are usually no more than one or two per building so you can learn their routes as well.
• If an NPC begins to walk from a static position, you can usually be certain that they'll maintain that route and not suddenly stop and turn around.
• You can reliably sneak behind them, quite closely.
• You can get away with sneaking to the side of NPCs, if you don't linger and the light level is low enough.
• In rare scenarios, you can sneak right in front of NPCs and they won't spot you but I get the distinct impression that you definitely need to be in a very dark corridor or location for this to work.
• At one point, I got too close to an NPC that was looking right at me. I was in the shadows but I was certain I'd get spotted. They were only a level 1 worker and I actually heard them say "Huh, you can go anywhere in the galaxy and you chose to come here" or words to that effect. I can't be certain but it gave me the impression that they spotted me but maybe were too low level to care (and I didn't hang around to find out, I ducked right back out of sight). If this is actually coded in, I'd be really impressed. It felt very life like.
• If an NPC spots you, their icon on the radar will change from grey to yellow.
• At this point they'll run to confront you. If you've cloned an ID or are trespassing, or have stolen items then this will result in them turning red and raising the alarm/shooting you.
• It's possible to evade the latter if you get away quickly enough. But once they're red, that's it. They'll stay that way until you leave or die.
• If you can manage to evade them still, get to a dark and concealed location, then they may stop the hunt for you. But they'll remain red on the radar and my guess is this just means they'll engage you on sight from then on.
• Resetting the instance clears all of these states (but fines/bounties will persist). If the infiltration has gone properly wrong and the settlement is trying to kill you then don't fight back! Put your shields on and sprint to the nearest exit (and for this reason, always know where that is!) Once you get outside, immediately jump and boost to the roof of the building you were in (or the nearest one). Get to a position that is as high up as possible and out of line of sight of any skimmers/turrets and guards. Crouch and escape to the main menu (you will need to wait 15 seconds but so far, I've never died doing it this way).
• You get fined for most transgressions except if you open fire or kill anyone, in which case you'll get a bounty (even if you kill them silently with the overcharge attack)
• You can pay off fines at your ship immediately, if the settlement let you land there.
• Bounties will need to be cleared the usual way.
• If all you want to do is get loot and data, you need not deactivate any alarms (this is necessary for some infiltration missions though - particularly if you need to interact with any controls). But I've found the CMD (Command) building is a great place to get your cloned ID from.
• Cloning IDs is what you need to do to get free access through security doors. To do this, you will need to use the Analysis tool in the cloning mode. This is illegal so you shouldn't attempt it out in the open. You should always do it when crouched and your target is unaware of you. It's got a really short range (about 5m) so using it requires patience. In my case, I found a perfect mark for my clone on the Manufacturing base.
• The general idea of cloning IDs is you first access a 0 security location, clone the ID of someone who has level 1, go to a level 1 location and clone the ID of someone with level 2 and so on. I found this wasn't necessary at Huntley Manufacturing. You can easily find a level 3 worker and clone their ID under the right circumstances (and you can do this 100% of the time at this particular settlement)
• If the CMD building has windows, you can try to spot a high-level worker from the outside, safely crouched in the shadows. I've found this is often on the second floor (outside). All you need is to find a window where such a worker walks past. Learn their pattern if you need to.
• I've found using the clone tool will not alert your target so long as you remain undetected. That means you need them to be stationary (so wait until they reach a stop point in their route). Ideally, you want this to happen where it's not possible for any other NPC to route by and spot you. This is why I found the window method so useful.
• The crosshair will turn from red to green when your target is in clone range. Hold fire until the bar fills up. Holster the tool and get out of there as soon as it's finished. If you're on a roof, just jump up and boost to the top.
• If it's your first time at any particular settlement, you will want to find a console as soon as possible. These can be found outside but at Huntley, there's one perfectly placed just inside the first IND (Industrial) building, right after you leave the CMD building's roof.
• The reason you want a console is to rapidly take note of all the relevant locker PINs to get really quick access to them later on. Make sure the coast is clear, stand up and use the console. Use your ears for any outdoor routing NPCs that might be wandering in, but otherwise if you properly scouted the location of the console you should be clear to take your time at this point (if not, find another one).
• You'll want to note the PINs for any lockers in IND buildings and Labs (or CMD/STO I guess, depending on the settlement). I just write them all down. If you need an outside container for a mission then you can get that here but I ignore these because these don't contain the materials I hunt and the materials they contain are abundant in most scenarios. That is, you don't need to steal them unless the mission dictates.
• This is also a good time to check the location of the data points.
• If you've done the right thing and learned the basic layout of the whole settlement, then you should have a good idea where each building is (i.e. PWR, CMD, IND, STO, HAB and so on). Using the console, you can highlight any single point, be it data point, locker, container or ammo/health/grenade box. This will place an orange marker on the compass (top of the screen). It'll also show the distance.
• This is where you can use a bit of deduction to determine which building is which (particularly useful if there are two IND buildings, or two Labs as there are at Huntley).
• Alternatively, you just highlight the points that interest you and leave it on. You'll see all of the orange markers on your compass and this will help you find the data points and industrial/research lockers much easier. It'll also help you decide if it's really worth risking detection to infiltrate certain rooms. Not every room is worth visiting, knowing which ones to leave is important and will save you a lot of time.
• Edit: this doesn't appear to be strictly true. Some locker pins appear to change. It looks like they alternate between two numbers so note additional alternatives down when this happens. You only ever need to do this once per settlement (the PINs are static per settlement - i.e., they won't be the same at another settlement even if it's the same layout). So, it's not important for the console to be included in your final route.
• The next part is the really challenging part... Learning a route and practicing it. I failed a lot at this part initially. It helped me to understand most of the above points through trial and error. I'd actually suggest that now is the best time to do this, rather than wait until it goes live. You stand to lose nothing right now.
• After an hour or so I now have an efficient route through the whole settlement that nets me 3 industrial data points and 4-5 lockers (a mix of research and industrial).
• I left a lot of lockers untouched, particularly the small and unlocked versions. These should be freely available on missions where you've got the authority to loot them, so I'd suggest they’re a waste of time when infiltrating. That said, some are unique to the type of settlement so you might want to check every locker you pass just in case they have some items you don't yet have (and so can trade for at the bar).
• When you're done, you can exfiltrate if you want to but I just quit to the menu and load in again. This takes you to the front of the settlement, near to your ship.
• This always spawns you with a tool equipped and sometimes there's a guard in front of you so be ready to holster and retreat to your ship. The guard never engaged me but I never hung about to find out.
• At this point you can board your ship and replenish/restock/offload goods (if you used Apex, don't board it but you can call it to offload items and get extra consumables if you need).
• You can then re-run the whole thing again, or hone your route/try additional buildings if you're still at this stage.
• I took about 10-12 restarts before I'd got it down. But now I reckon I will learn the next settlement type much faster. Knowing all of the above helps me to react if something unexpected happens too.

 

[Milkman76]

Do I want help??? hahah no, no thanks. Did you need help understanding the relationship between customers and vendors? Because I have a guide for that, but it would be off-topic here, so....

I dont think we are communicating, and I dont think you grasp just where the onus is on the issues present here. Hint: it isnt on me.

 

[Factabulous]

Can you rememeber where? If they looped once then that tends to be "it" in my experience. I've had workers walk right past a containment case as it was happily counting down to open and it wasn't an issue but if they are never far enough away to let you open it without them hearing that then that's an issue.

No, sorry - I haven't been concentrating on those missions yet - I want to find locations for the data unlocks first - I need a lot of Opinion Polls right now ....

 

[Ydiss]

No, sorry - I haven't been concentrating on those missions yet - I want to find locations for the data unlocks first - I need a lot of Opinion Polls right now ....

You and me both Doesn't help when data points all go blank if you dare exit the game.

 

[Ydiss]

Do I want help??? hahah no, no thanks. Did you need help understanding the relationship between customers and vendors? Because I have a guide for that, but it would be off-topic here, so....

I dont think we are communicating, and I dont think you grasp just where the onus is on the issues present here. Hint: it isnt on me.

As in help with how to do these missions?

If you don't, that's cool. No onus on me there, pal. Obviously your 5000 hours are all you need.

 

[Milkman76]

As in help with how to do these missions?

If you don't, that's cool. No onus on me there, pal. Obviously your 5000 hours are all you need.

Nope, no thanks. I think you missed my point. I dont need any help from you, as I indicated, thanks. I prefer making tickets about broken game systems to receiving "help" working around them from forum randos who see all the game's problems as exciting opportunities to work around them.

 

[Milkman76]

Suggestion for FDev/FDev brand and community managers, who have their hands full at the moment:

I understand it is tempting to try to protect the brand publicly by trying to paint massive flaws and release issues so they sound like... a lack of player skill and/or knowledge, but publicly ADMITTING these issues and working with the playerbase as you push out fixes over time is always the better way to handle this. Trying to foist a chunk of these broken systems off on "well you just haven't learned just how DAAAAAAANNNNGEROUSSSSS this game is" isnt a good strategy today, nor was it in 2017.

 

[Ydiss]

The stealth and infiltration aspects of Odyssey are amazing, easily the part I love the most about it. Tons of much, much more higher priority stuff needs work in the expansion.