I agree
Noone Riding Certain Flats
- Thread starter Phenix Studios
- Start date
Perhaps then, not having a large enough queue to meet demand should detract from prestige? (As in the longer the line is always full the more prestige the ride looses until it levels out so that not everyone is trying to pile into the Luna cars even if they can't afford the ticket price? Perhaps conversely have a prestige bonus for rides that don't have a full line when your high prestige rides have full lines that way the guests will be more likely to go for the rides that aren't already packed...)
Seriously though, why does everyone in my park want to ride the Skull wagons? Even after tweaking my coasters and jacking up the price enough to keep the line half empty people are still crowding that section of my park trying to get on the buggies...
Seriously though, why does everyone in my park want to ride the Skull wagons? Even after tweaking my coasters and jacking up the price enough to keep the line half empty people are still crowding that section of my park trying to get on the buggies...
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qoute Creaper : it would have been a nice feature for searching through blueprints so that if I wanted to see all my "pirate themed" shops together I could instead of having to flip between drinks and food only. Saying this would hurt creative is just being close minded to all the things it would benefit for certain non-creative players.] end quote]
quote PC_OCD : It only makes sense that with UGC creators should be able to define their own themes.] end quote]
Yes, it would be nice to have more search options in the 'my blueprints' section or have it divided into several sections, maybe even have a 'map' especially for the ones you created yourself and I agree with UGC creators having their own themes. (and I want add-ons just as much as you Creaper)
I never said anything against those ideas, just to be clear on that [happy]
Don't box me: I am not a sandbox only player. I started in career, fully completed it. I've played challenge and am currently in sandbox. I'm very averagely creatively talented and still learning on all aspects of the game. I enjoy it all and will probably always keep playing all modes, like undoubtedly many other players. So my comments are from a career/challenge players' perspective as well.
I couldn't possibly explain it better than Bullethead. He (she) made several different and well detailed arguments why the idea of added bonuses to themes is not the way to improve balancing.
Like what was said about the fact that when you'd add 'bonused themes' to a flat ride it would mean you could not dress up your coaster because then the purpose would be undone.
You say you don't mind that but do you really think most (career/challenge) players wouldn't mind either? Some of them, sure. And some part of the time, depending of the mood you're in, but I'd dare to say that a lot of players would find it a negative change not to have a consistently decorated area or park. It would look strange, create a different kind of imbalance. And it is not the kind of park I would like to visit. (You say so yourself that the coasters on the workshop without scenery are not downloaded (or far less))
You then suggest to give the theme bonus only to certain rides, but isn't that just overcomplicating things that could be solved in a better way?
If they decide to improve the balancing I'd rather have the devs doing it in another way, which would have the result you all want but at the same time leaves the freedom in the creativity completely untouched. (and thus also benefits themes. (By the way: having to choose 20 (or more) pieces you want to allocate to a theme like you suggested somewhere is also too limiting for my tastes))
Besides, I think that not using bonuses to themes to make rides more popular may be less disadvantageous for those who indeed do not care so much for scenery. Using another way, the game would already be better balanced and they are not forced in the direction of adding more scenery if that's not their thing, unless they want to get the most out of it.
So many people, as many views I guess [happy]
Maybe this is a good idea - not only the solution but everything said around it makes good sense:
quote Bullethead: It's only the ultra-tame flat rides, the ones where it's physically impossible to have any EFN much above or even at 2.0, that really get stung by how prestige works. There's no way to get these over the prestige divide without making the duration unrealistically long, but if you don't do that, they get zero business. So really, the best change to the prestige system as far as tame flat rides go would be to iron out, or at least relocate, the hump in ride attractiveness at 600-700. Of course, there'd have to be the understanding by players that no matter what, these are niche attractions that will never be very popular simply because the vast majority of peeps prefer even marginally sterner stuff.
Relocating the hump downwards is probably the better option. Maybe move it to 500-550 instead of about 650. 550 is doable for an ultra-tame flat ride with 100% queue scenery without ridiculously excessive duration. But it would have no chance of getting there without 100% queue scenery and some minor tinkering with sequences. Thus, players would still have an incentive to pimp these rides out and set the sequences, but they'd actually get rewarded at a more realistic point of the ride's development. It still wouldn't be nearly as popular as anything else, but at least it wouldn't be deserted if you put a reasonable amount of work into it.] end quote]
Balancing is most probably a tough thing to get right, not making the game too easy either, 'cause then there'd be even more complaints.
I can see how important this is to you all so I hope one day you'll get the desired result. [happy]
About what you said concerning objectives:
Am I wrong thinking they can already add themed objectives? Items already are in themes, you don't need to add a special bonus to them to be able to use it as career or challenge objectives.
A nice day to everyone
quote PC_OCD : It only makes sense that with UGC creators should be able to define their own themes.] end quote]
Yes, it would be nice to have more search options in the 'my blueprints' section or have it divided into several sections, maybe even have a 'map' especially for the ones you created yourself and I agree with UGC creators having their own themes. (and I want add-ons just as much as you Creaper)
I never said anything against those ideas, just to be clear on that [happy]
Don't box me: I am not a sandbox only player. I started in career, fully completed it. I've played challenge and am currently in sandbox. I'm very averagely creatively talented and still learning on all aspects of the game. I enjoy it all and will probably always keep playing all modes, like undoubtedly many other players. So my comments are from a career/challenge players' perspective as well.
I couldn't possibly explain it better than Bullethead. He (she) made several different and well detailed arguments why the idea of added bonuses to themes is not the way to improve balancing.
Like what was said about the fact that when you'd add 'bonused themes' to a flat ride it would mean you could not dress up your coaster because then the purpose would be undone.
You say you don't mind that but do you really think most (career/challenge) players wouldn't mind either? Some of them, sure. And some part of the time, depending of the mood you're in, but I'd dare to say that a lot of players would find it a negative change not to have a consistently decorated area or park. It would look strange, create a different kind of imbalance. And it is not the kind of park I would like to visit. (You say so yourself that the coasters on the workshop without scenery are not downloaded (or far less))
You then suggest to give the theme bonus only to certain rides, but isn't that just overcomplicating things that could be solved in a better way?
If they decide to improve the balancing I'd rather have the devs doing it in another way, which would have the result you all want but at the same time leaves the freedom in the creativity completely untouched. (and thus also benefits themes. (By the way: having to choose 20 (or more) pieces you want to allocate to a theme like you suggested somewhere is also too limiting for my tastes))
Besides, I think that not using bonuses to themes to make rides more popular may be less disadvantageous for those who indeed do not care so much for scenery. Using another way, the game would already be better balanced and they are not forced in the direction of adding more scenery if that's not their thing, unless they want to get the most out of it.
So many people, as many views I guess [happy]
Maybe this is a good idea - not only the solution but everything said around it makes good sense:
quote Bullethead: It's only the ultra-tame flat rides, the ones where it's physically impossible to have any EFN much above or even at 2.0, that really get stung by how prestige works. There's no way to get these over the prestige divide without making the duration unrealistically long, but if you don't do that, they get zero business. So really, the best change to the prestige system as far as tame flat rides go would be to iron out, or at least relocate, the hump in ride attractiveness at 600-700. Of course, there'd have to be the understanding by players that no matter what, these are niche attractions that will never be very popular simply because the vast majority of peeps prefer even marginally sterner stuff.
Relocating the hump downwards is probably the better option. Maybe move it to 500-550 instead of about 650. 550 is doable for an ultra-tame flat ride with 100% queue scenery without ridiculously excessive duration. But it would have no chance of getting there without 100% queue scenery and some minor tinkering with sequences. Thus, players would still have an incentive to pimp these rides out and set the sequences, but they'd actually get rewarded at a more realistic point of the ride's development. It still wouldn't be nearly as popular as anything else, but at least it wouldn't be deserted if you put a reasonable amount of work into it.] end quote]
Balancing is most probably a tough thing to get right, not making the game too easy either, 'cause then there'd be even more complaints.
I can see how important this is to you all so I hope one day you'll get the desired result. [happy]
About what you said concerning objectives:
Am I wrong thinking they can already add themed objectives? Items already are in themes, you don't need to add a special bonus to them to be able to use it as career or challenge objectives.
A nice day to everyone
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I never said it had to do with balancing, i think the game does need balancing, but that is a different topic that PC_OCD mixed in with his ideas. Either discuss balancing based on prestige and economy, or discuss the idea of themed scenery (they are not the same thing) but balancing is tough as everybody has differing opinions
to me I only mentioned that themed scenery would be a nice feature for both organizing/searching through scenery, and also a bit of fun when seeing guests thoughts. I don't think it should boost ride prestige or profits, just simply a slight boost to guest happiness and/or park rating. I also miss the rewards system from RCT like best park, or best scenery etc. but as I said its not a big deal, it doesnt have a major impact on the game, and I dont see them changing it at this point
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Didn't mean to put you in a box Caterpillar but many of the very creative players tend to build in sandbox and I'm sorry if I offended you for calling you creative. Sandbox is a niche mostly used for creativity and theming bonuses are for the most part not necessary but could still help the OP with a flat ride needing a bump in prestige.
In past posts I've already addressed every issue you have presented against themes. And if you read a little closer into Bullethead's suggestion of changing the prestige hump you will see that he isn't even sure weather adjustment should be raised or lowered. This would cause problems to the overall prestige calculator and probably make the balance worse. Bullethead is a smart guy. If he's bouncing back and forth on what to do, its probably not the best way to go. I still don't see how creators/players generated thematic scenery would punish the player? Of course there should be some limits. Most gameplay needs some sort of limitation or it just becomes a sandbox and that is not the purpose of having career or challenge modes. But with proper balance, theming rides could very easily make the flat ride much more attractive without hurting your creativity or in any way effecting the attractiveness of the other rides. So what if a pimped out carousel is better than a plain old rollercoaster? Eventually you can pimp out the rollercoaster beyond the attractiveness of a carousel. IMO, It should work that way. Remember, there is a breaking point where all rides will not get any more attractive. This can be seen very easily with classic rides.
In past posts I've already addressed every issue you have presented against themes. And if you read a little closer into Bullethead's suggestion of changing the prestige hump you will see that he isn't even sure weather adjustment should be raised or lowered. This would cause problems to the overall prestige calculator and probably make the balance worse. Bullethead is a smart guy. If he's bouncing back and forth on what to do, its probably not the best way to go. I still don't see how creators/players generated thematic scenery would punish the player? Of course there should be some limits. Most gameplay needs some sort of limitation or it just becomes a sandbox and that is not the purpose of having career or challenge modes. But with proper balance, theming rides could very easily make the flat ride much more attractive without hurting your creativity or in any way effecting the attractiveness of the other rides. So what if a pimped out carousel is better than a plain old rollercoaster? Eventually you can pimp out the rollercoaster beyond the attractiveness of a carousel. IMO, It should work that way. Remember, there is a breaking point where all rides will not get any more attractive. This can be seen very easily with classic rides.
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Only if you add a special bonus to theming (sorry if you realise but I feel like making that clear for readers who don't read everything, because there is a major difference [happy] )
PS: I'm not offended [happy]
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Totally wrong, but I respect your opinion. There Is no way themed bonuses would detract or punish a player. All it would do is help a flat ride in desperate need of prestige. My arguments stand.
I think there is already enough ways to increase prestige. You can increase the prestige with scenery, or you can increase prestige with additional ride animations. Of course every ride has a max prestige it can get, but why do you think prestige needs increasing? All that would do is cause guests to be more willing to pay higher prices, which would then cause more guests to wander around parks with no money. I don't think that's what we need.
I'm all for adding a set of specifically themed objects to a group and calling a specific theme set, for both organization reasons, and also for guests to recognize specific themed areas (such as "this sci-fi stuff is my favorite" etc) but I don't think this needs to increase ride prestige, it should just give a slight boost to guest happiness and/or park rating (IMO) or maybe even something like the reward system from classic RCT. either way though, as I've said, I don't see it happening at this point
@ creaper: to answer your question, prestige doesn't just cause a guest to pay more for a ride. Prestige is also part of the attractiveness of the ride. This is very obvious in ride aging. As a ride ages its prestige drops and less peeps queue. When a ride becomes "classic" its prestige jumps. It becomes hugely popular/attractive and after that, there is no need to add ride time or faster spin cycles.. In contrast, If you put a new ride down which has to compete against the high prestige "classic", it will do okay until it starts aging. Once its "old" forget it, its prestige is completely gone. To the point that no peep will queue. You might as well close the ride for 22 years. If there were prestige bonuses for themes, the player could use theming to increase an old ride's prestige enough that it could at least compete with a classic ride. The classic ride will still be highly prestigious or any reasonably made rollercoaster for that matter, and it would not effect or harm any other rides attractiveness in any way because there is a breaking point for attractiveness based on fear excitement and nausea. All it would do is keep the dropping prestige of the aging ride from dropping so low as to be worthless. This is probably moot because Frontier has announced the devs have done something to the prestige system for the update. What it is, IDK? I just hope it works because right now, I don't even bother with aging rides. Its so easily beaten its a joke. Its not management. Just put the ride in your park open for 3 years then close it move it to "storage" (unused portion of your park) for for 22 years until it hits classic. In the meantime, just build and delete the same ride every 3 years for max profit. To me, that is taking creativity away from the player much more than any theme bonus would ever do. Personally, Id rather build a really cool ride that has super cool scenery that can compete with a classic ride than just shut it down and put in storage for 22 years.
One of the reasons a rollercoaster or track ride can stay competitive when its old is because it has track scenery, track scenery adds prestige to the ride and therefore the peeps will continue to queue. Flat rides do not have the luxury of track scenery all they get is a queue rating. By adding theme bonuses to rides they could attain the extra bump in prestige needed so as not to be worthless.
One of the reasons a rollercoaster or track ride can stay competitive when its old is because it has track scenery, track scenery adds prestige to the ride and therefore the peeps will continue to queue. Flat rides do not have the luxury of track scenery all they get is a queue rating. By adding theme bonuses to rides they could attain the extra bump in prestige needed so as not to be worthless.
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We all have some good points I reckon and I do realise more people than you think like you, (just wanting to say, because when I reread one of my own posts I couldn't help thinking it came across harder than I intended. Writing is so easily misinterpreted)
I just look at the consequences differently, which I won't repeat, except add that there's probably a fair share of players that like the differences between the classic and other. (don't think that's been said already)
So you could say that taking all these aspects into consideration I feel like doing it in another way is more considerate to a larger number of players (while you too would get your result, or close to it)
But off course, I'm aware there's not really a right or wrong, just opinions [happy] Sorry if I'm just nagging now [big grin]
You mention they announced changes to the prestige system... curious now... who knows, they may have done it by adding themed bonuses... could be. Maybe that was/is their intention all along... [where is it]
yep, we agree to disagree [happy] [up]
(Now I really must go into hiding, if I still want to be surprised on April 11th)
I just look at the consequences differently, which I won't repeat, except add that there's probably a fair share of players that like the differences between the classic and other. (don't think that's been said already)
So you could say that taking all these aspects into consideration I feel like doing it in another way is more considerate to a larger number of players (while you too would get your result, or close to it)
But off course, I'm aware there's not really a right or wrong, just opinions [happy] Sorry if I'm just nagging now [big grin]
You mention they announced changes to the prestige system... curious now... who knows, they may have done it by adding themed bonuses... could be. Maybe that was/is their intention all along... [where is it]
yep, we agree to disagree [happy] [up]
(Now I really must go into hiding, if I still want to be surprised on April 11th)
Well, guests already react to scenery, scenery already plays a role, and items are already in themes, so the game recognizes themes already (right? , not sure) so maybe expanding on this a bit (like in more objectives) isn't as far away as you think [happy]
@PC_OCD - I am repeating myself on this one. I do not think that scenery needs to be the "balancing factor" for fixing the ride aging/reputation system. I don't know why you wrote an essay about how rides age, I know how it works. Old rides and the aging system are what needs balancing, but that can be done without scenery bonuses (which we already have). I started a new thread on this here https://forums.planetcoaster.com/showthread.php/23235-Ride-Aging-Reputation
Maybe your right, I would like to hope so [happy] but the devs said in the early dev diarys that guests wont judge scenery based on theme
Or how about making a category for non-queue based scenery ratings for flat rides (like in was in rct3)
Maybe your right, I would like to hope so [happy] but the devs said in the early dev diarys that guests wont judge scenery based on theme
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