General / Off-Topic Northern Ireland...a very unique problem

[Moonax IRL]

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Sinn fein leaders used to be IRA leaders and have always been widely known as the political wing of the IRA...thats no secret round these parts even though they have tried to garner an air of respectibility about them...it hasnt worked and most of us still regard them as sinn fein/IRA. They cannot shake that image off, but oh boy have they tried...and failed.

And RAAD were always a part of the IRA but operating as something else. Their so called war on drugs was nothing more than exerting control in their own areas by targetting low level dealers and claiming some sort of moral high ground. The IRA were attempting to show the world they could keep their nose clean...so they used splinter groups who appeared to be seperate groupings to the outside world. It failed and we all saw through that years ago and now they dont even try to hide it.

Their war on the gangs in dublin...gang warfare trying to take control from gangsters who have no ties to the north at all. Fighting over territory control...thats all it is and thats all it ever was. Of course they will claim otherwise as it wont look good to their financial backers in the US, or their own homegrown support...they will attempt to paint the picture that loyalists are the worst scum of the earth and republicans are so clean, the wind whistles through their arseholes. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Im not saying some loyalists arent nasty...some loyalists are indeed very bad, I wont even try to argue otherwise. But republicans are, in my own opinion, worse on just about every level. They just a bit more organised...that really is the only difference in that both sides have blood on their hands.

A point to note here is that our estate is one the biggest east of the lagan...there are no joyriders on these streets, no dealers standing outside school gates selling to kids, no 16year old shot in both legs and left to bleed to death in some alleyway. Go west into republican areas and spot the difference...shouldnt take too long and I see ye drove there in a nice car? Oh dear...

Its true that there are a lotta drugs on the streets but heres a point that makes one think. Average street price fer a gram of weed here is about 15 quid because the supply comes from republican areas...where the average price per gram is significantly less. Most of it comes in from the south so...it aint loyalists bringing it in, they just customers who pay top whack hence those prices are passed along which means the street price is higher in loyalist areas.

Anyway...this has nothing whatsoever to do with stormont and the current political crisis. Even though Ive got him muted, Im still arguing with the guy and derailing my own thread...yay go me. Was just funny reading what ye quoted from him about loyalists being the worst of the worst and republicans being whiter than the driven snow...only in reality, that aint snow...and drugs are not rampant in this estate. I dare ye to come here and show me what I dont know, and if ye can find these rampant areas of concern, Ill happily wrap a tri colour around me and walk tthe shankhill road on the 12th july. They dont exist outside his imagination.

If you had any idea of Irish political history you would know that Ireland`s main political parties all came out of an armed struggle, thats what you get when you have no option but to pick up the gun and resort to violence to rid your country of a foreign occupying power who refuses to respect the democratic will of the people. So nothing new here only history repeating itself.

 

[Moonax IRL]

RAAD are now part of the IRA. Sinn Fein has always been associated with the IRA. So those links you've supplied prove the opposite of what you seem to be claiming.

Terrorists sell drugs. Sometimes they kill or warn off other drug dealers, but that's all about controlling the supply the turf and the addicts. They claim they are doing it to stop the drug trade, but that's always been a convenient cover story even the Mafia used it.

Regarding RAAD and the New IRA , they are a dissident faction that I said don`t support Sinn Féin or the GFA/peace process and threatened Martin McGuinness. I have already pointed out this ,how dense or stupid does someone have to be not to be able to understand. You have already being told by multiple posters that the DUP were responsible for the "Cash for Ash" fiasco after making a fool of yourself bleating the opposite. Sinn Féin are a legitmate political party with a democratic mandate get over it.

Edit- And as I said the drugs issue has SFA to do with Sinn Féin.

 

[Stigbob]

Regarding RAAD and the New IRA , they are a dissident faction that I said don`t support Sinn Féin or the GFA/peace process and threatened Martin McGuinness. I have already pointed out this ,how dense or stupid does someone have to be not to be able to understand. You have already being told by multiple posters that the DUP were responsible for the "Cash for Ash" fiasco after making a fool of yourself bleating the opposite. Sinn Féin are a legitmate political party with a democratic mandate get over it.

Yes you told some lies with a sectarian agenda, because you are a bigot and that's what bigots do.

 

[Moonax IRL]

Yes you told some lies with a sectarian agenda, because you are a bigot and that's what bigots do.

You should try to argue or contradict me with the help of some facts, it would make you look less dim.

 

[Stigbob]

You should try to argue or contradict me with the help of some facts, it would make you look less dim.

I'm still waiting for you to reply to the "thought experiment" as you went off on a bigoted rant then as well.

 

[Moonax IRL]

I'm sure you'll find a way to blame that on specific groups of people you dislike.

You are the only person in this thread trying to blame a mishandled subsidy on one faction in an attempt to fan the flames of hatred and intolerance and push back against that pesky inconvenient peace process, you most definitely are part of the problem.

I'm still waiting for you to reply to the "thought experiment" as you went off on a bigoted rant then as well.

Your the first person to rant I`m sorry to say, making a fool of yourself in the process and having to be corrected by numerous other posters who proved my point for me.

Regarding my "thought experiment", I now realise that was poor judgement on my part, as thinking is not one of your strong points, Shep the sheepdog would have made a better subject. We live and learn I suppose........ well at least some of us do.

 

[Stigbob]

Your the first person to rant I`m sorry to say, making a fool of yourself in the process and having to be corrected by numerous other posters who proved my point for me.

Regarding my "thought experiment", I now realise that was poor judgement on my part, as thinking is not one of your strong points, Shep the sheepdog would have made a better subject. We live and learn I suppose........ well at least some of us do.

That's right bigot, stick with the insults. Show your true colours.

 

[Ian Phillips]

Insult are not part of a good discussion.

If you want to have a discussion - don't use insults.

No further warnings.

 

[verminstar]

Regarding RAAD and the New IRA , they are a dissident faction that I said don`t support Sinn Féin or the GFA/peace process and threatened Martin McGuinness. I have already pointed out this ,how dense or stupid does someone have to be not to be able to understand. You have already being told by multiple posters that the DUP were responsible for the "Cash for Ash" fiasco after making a fool of yourself bleating the opposite. Sinn Féin are a legitmate political party with a democratic mandate get over it.

Edit- And as I said the drugs issue has SFA to do with Sinn Féin.

Ill kick meself later fer unmuting ye but...the dissident groups are made up of disgruntled members of the IRA who never supported any peace. That means they are literally the same thing and it might come as a shock, but thats exactly what a great many of us genuinely believe. That these groups align themselves against the IRA and SF is all a part of what they want us to think...they are merely the ones doing the dirty work that the IRA cannot be seen doing...territory control, drugs control. Ye honestly think we dont see through them? Its actually a bit of a standing joke which is why when we reference sinn fein, we add in the IRA...because they one and the same and always have been.

Fact...Adams used to be one of the members of the leadership of the IRA, and has spent time in prison for terrorist crimes...yes?
Fact...So was Martin...yes?
Fact...SF are the political wing of a terrorist grouping...yes?
Fact...the DUP and UUP hate us almost as much as they hate you. They are not aware of the drugs trade as you insinuated earlier...if you have factual evidence to back that up, then by all means lets have it.
Fact...when arguing yer point, it loses all validity when ye resort to petty insults which, based on truth or not is irrelevant, an insult is an insult and ye lose validity in damned near every comment you make.
Fact...The DUP are entirely at fault for the cash for ask scandal. On this we agree, but only on this...so far thats about the only thing you got right.
Fact...you are the biggest bigot here as seen by the tone of yer rhetoric rantings about the past which you cannot let go off.
Fact...dissident republicans also cannot let go of the past and will never live and let live.
Fact...its easier and cheaper to get drugs in a republican area than it is in loyalist areas...where ye think we get ours? We do so because dealers are not tolerated on this estate...there a ten foot wall mural at the front of the estate declaring drug dealers will not be tolerated.
Fact...drugs are not rampant in loyalist areas...they can be sourced but not easily...one has to know who to ask and where. If they were rampant, this would not be the case.
Fact...its not loyalists kneecapping 16 year old kids, then leaving them to bleed half to death. That made the news last week here...again, republican areas. Were I on anything but my phone, I could link the article considering it made the headlines on UTV news.

Seeing a pattern here yet? Anything ye wish to argue as not a fact? Not once have I made any claim that loyalists dont have their fair share of scum villainry...thing is they dont hide what they are as republicans hide behind dissident groups, then try to claim innocence in order to take the spotlight away from the IRA. If the IRA are seen to be going back to their old ways, then sinn fein lose their access to stormont...also a part of the GFA which is why they need a covert scapegoat to do what they cannot be seen to be doing.

Threatening Martin and Gerry is nothing but adding to the smokescreen...means they can stand in front of the cameras and condemn them in the strongest possible way which is nothing more than PR. Dissidents who have been caught have included current serving members of SF...care to explain that little nugget?

 

[Moonax IRL]

Ill kick meself later fer unmuting ye but...the dissident groups are made up of disgruntled members of the IRA who never supported any peace. That means they are literally the same thing and it might come as a shock, but thats exactly what a great many of us genuinely believe. That these groups align themselves against the IRA and SF is all a part of what they want us to think...they are merely the ones doing the dirty work that the IRA cannot be seen doing...territory control, drugs control. Ye honestly think we dont see through them? Its actually a bit of a standing joke which is why when we reference sinn fein, we add in the IRA...because they one and the same and always have been.

Fact...Adams used to be one of the members of the leadership of the IRA, and has spent time in prison for terrorist crimes...yes?
Fact...So was Martin...yes?
Fact...SF are the political wing of a terrorist grouping...yes?
Fact...the DUP and UUP hate us almost as much as they hate you. They are not aware of the drugs trade as you insinuated earlier...if you have factual evidence to back that up, then by all means lets have it.
Fact...when arguing yer point, it loses all validity when ye resort to petty insults which, based on truth or not is irrelevant, an insult is an insult and ye lose validity in damned near every comment you make.
Fact...The DUP are entirely at fault for the cash for ask scandal. On this we agree, but only on this...so far thats about the only thing you got right.
Fact...you are the biggest bigot here as seen by the tone of yer rhetoric rantings about the past which you cannot let go off.
Fact...dissident republicans also cannot let go of the past and will never live and let live.
Fact...its easier and cheaper to get drugs in a republican area than it is in loyalist areas...where ye think we get ours? We do so because dealers are not tolerated on this estate...there a ten foot wall mural at the front of the estate declaring drug dealers will not be tolerated.
Fact...drugs are not rampant in loyalist areas...they can be sourced but not easily...one has to know who to ask and where. If they were rampant, this would not be the case.
Fact...its not loyalists kneecapping 16 year old kids, then leaving them to bleed half to death. That made the news last week here...again, republican areas. Were I on anything but my phone, I could link the article considering it made the headlines on UTV news.

Seeing a pattern here yet? Anything ye wish to argue as not a fact? Not once have I made any claim that loyalists dont have their fair share of scum villainry...thing is they dont hide what they are as republicans hide behind dissident groups, then try to claim innocence in order to take the spotlight away from the IRA. If the IRA are seen to be going back to their old ways, then sinn fein lose their access to stormont...also a part of the GFA which is why they need a covert scapegoat to do what they cannot be seen to be doing.

Threatening Martin and Gerry is nothing but adding to the smokescreen...means they can stand in front of the cameras and condemn them in the strongest possible way which is nothing more than PR. Dissidents who have been caught have included current serving members of SF...care to explain that little nugget?

Opinion doesn't qualify as fact I'm afraid. Savaged twice in one day by dead sheep, a rare treat.

 

[verminstar]

Opinion doesn't qualify as fact I'm afraid. Savaged twice in one day by dead sheep, a rare treat.

Ye mean the sheep were zombies? Maybe its karma fer what ye did to them when they were alive? Just spitballing ideas here but if thats the tone yer gonna use, then two can play that game ^

So...childish games aside...which parts are fact and which are opinion? Maybe ye cant argue any of them and just dismiss them out of hand...doesnt mean they not true, just means ye cant argue with it. Then again, ye dont seem to discuss anything less than half a century old, so this might be yer sticking point...stuck in the past...like a few others I mentioned ^

 

[Arry]

This is getting a bit heated and silly and way off of topic; don't you think?

With the Irish question, it is hard for anyone involved, not to become extremely passionate in their views and opinions; simply, because they are/were involved, but only from one, perspective. The whole thing was tainted by liars and extremists on both sides. The whole thing was driven, by generation after generation for centuries, of fathers telling their sons (and daughters) about the sins against and the suffering of, their fore-fathers and constant propaganda from both sides. The Irish question had to be resolved and its resolution had nothing to do with the politicians from any side, but it came from the people themselves. They came together and marched, protested and campaigned for peace after years of finding themselves and their children caught in the middle. The Good Friday agreement was brought about by the will of the people and the politicians had little choice, but to follow that desire of the masses.

Now the issue has nothing to do with the 'Irish Question' it is about greed and corruption. All I have to say is, the 1st minister refused to stop the scheme, when advised to do so, because it was found to be being exploited and costing the tax payers a lot more then it should do and companies were making a lot of money out of it. This has nothing to do with 'political persuasion or beliefs', it is to do with making money and seeing that 'friends and associates' make money as well.

 

[verminstar]

This is getting a bit heated and silly and way off of topic; don't you think?

This has nothing to do with 'political persuasion or beliefs', it is to do with making money and seeing that 'friends and associates' make money as well.

Yes I do think and agree absolutely. This is like karma considering we voted them in in the first place. A gamble as the previous party were giving too many compromises to SF, with the DUP being much more hardline that the UUP who would be more middle of the road sorta thing. And yes, I did indeed vote them in and for the very reason I stated.

The dup have been involved in several very controversial examples where they made sure their own friends and family got preferential jobs and perks...this latest scandal merely being just that...the latest and largest of a long string of scandals. Most the time these sins were ignored as they were also the best qualified at dealing with SF...the alternatives where we just give, give and give again while getting nothing in return simply had to stop.

But I do agree...this has gone totally sideways with the point being buried under a mountain of bigotry from the usual source. Yet again, we have another history lesson shoved into our faces, interlaced with a host of insults. Thats the way these people are...thats why I still dont trust them and keep them at arms length.

So on that note, could a mod please close this thread now...nothing further can be gained thanks to this historical rhetoric and finger pointing.

 

[Adept]

Thanks for starting the thread though. I for one had not heard of this issue.

 

[verminstar]

Thanks for starting the thread though. I for one had not heard of this issue.

Peace doesnt make fer news headlines...and politicians are always corrupt the world over...its pretty normal and also isnt anything new.

 

[Sir.Tj]

Thread closed as requested.