Not so Iron Asp...

I hear you, and i agree with you. See, i would love to explore space with my clipper - but without the tear shed at the end of the journey. There has to be found a solution, i agree with you all on that. But cutting costs simply by half just feels... wrong for me. In a game like this there should always be some kind of trade off. You get protection against that damage, either by using armor like military armor and such - or some new special armor for space explorers is added, but you loose some maximum jump range as you carry more weight arround. Not saying that it has to be that way, but i would like to see something like that.

I really don't see this as an explorer's problem. The cost for wear and tear is capped - if you explore for a while it will cost the max when you come home, if you explore 10%, 50% or 15,000% longer it'll be the same.

So explore in your clipper. Scan some extra systems to cover wear and tear, job done. Do 100ly on economical route planning instead of fastest route planning somewhere in the middle and you're covered.
 
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i keep my Asp for pirate hunting in the RES which is only 5Ls from my home base. for everything else - unless it's a very lucrative mission - i take the Cobra.
 
I agree man, it's just a little ...

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I agree man, it's just a little ...?
 
Well now, Im on an exploring trip, and I found a star with sibling stars at 500k ls away, guess what!, I was traveling at 1100C :D wonder how much that gonna cost me!
 
At first I freaked about the cost of wear and tear in the Asp. I had a serious encounter with an Anaconda and left with 65% hull damage. Repair cost was over 200KCr.
I thought about getting rid of it but since then, costs of maintaining it have come down (nor sure if its a 1.1 change).
Even an interdiction could cost close to 20KCr and wasn't worth it, but those costs have dropped to around 6Kcr if I don't submit (2% damage).
I started submitting to interdictions, the damage is zero and I get to collect a bounty in most cases or at least exact revenge for the hassle.
I find it to be a great ship now for my particular style.
 
At first I freaked about the cost of wear and tear in the Asp. I had a serious encounter with an Anaconda and left with 65% hull damage. Repair cost was over 200KCr.
I thought about getting rid of it but since then, costs of maintaining it have come down (nor sure if its a 1.1 change).
Even an interdiction could cost close to 20KCr and wasn't worth it, but those costs have dropped to around 6Kcr if I don't submit (2% damage).
I started submitting to interdictions, the damage is zero and I get to collect a bounty in most cases or at least exact revenge for the hassle.
I find it to be a great ship now for my particular style.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say you haven't clicked the repair button and looked at the ship integrity section...
 
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There's really no point in going past the Cobra unless you want to totally specialise in trading and need the cargo space or exploring and really need the jump range. The earning potential of the larger multi-purpose ships doesn't go up with size. You still get the same missions and the same bounties but with massively increased running costs.

I worked hard building up my Empire rank so that I could get a Clipper but whereas I was previously making a bit of a profit on bounty hunting and rare trading I'm now finding that since getting it I'm operating at a loss overall. I got into a fight with 4 NPC pirates last night (one of which limpeted my cargo. I've not seen that before) and ended up with a half million repair bill.

The Clipper is getting sold when I log in today and I'm going to go back to the Cobra and bank the rest of my cash. I was having more fun in my fully kitted out Cobra. I'm scared to get into fights with my Clipper. It feels like I'm back doing rare runs in the Hauler. Avoiding fights and panicking when I see a ship approaching me in supercruise. I don't have the 140 million it'd take to get it all A's like my Cobra.
 
Hogwash. Our ships are plated with armor to withstand high energy laser blasts and explosive bullets. Some even upgrade to "military" grade armor - and that's when you get past the shields. If you're gonna go down that path of logic how does space dust penetrate shields?

The W&T logic put in place is like everything else in this game - inconsistent and without direction. It seems to be put in arbitrarily as a credit sink.

It does appear to be purely a game mechanic or feature that penalizes anyone in a bigger and therefore, more expensive ships. It appears your costs will be low provided you content yourself with less. Aspire to expensive ships and you had better be an Oligark!

Using a car analogy from the past. If you drove a Moskvitch, Lada or Trabandt, then the repair costs were almost zero. Designed for the "masses" east of the Iron Curtain, the repairs could be done in a bicycle shop with empty baked bean tins:)

No, but you can assume the FSD projects a field or bubble of some sort to protect the ship and enable the warping of space-time.

It's a simple fact of life in space that micro-meteors are ship killers, and you can't just assume the FSD doesn't deal with them in an effective manner. At superluminal speeds, any particles of dust colliding with or penetrating the FSD field would erupt with incredible amounts of energy, if they survived the transition into the field at all they would be travelling at 1C and colliding with the ship would penetrate the entire thing.

Interesting theory! I love this games slant on science fiction.

However, I steer clear of any analogy to real world physics in this "game". If you think about just the basics, (force=mass*velocity) we would only need to hit a microscopic dust particle at supercruise or warp speeds and our ship would be a smouldering wreak:) I like the warp bubble though!

The Star Trek shield theory was always a pleasant fiction. Keep those shields up and nothing can touch you, not even a Romulan disruptor:)

Bottom line is, in a "game" anything is possible, dependant upon the aims of the game creator.

As a game mechanic, excessive wear an tear forces the player to maintain a large bank balance, so you must trade as well as do all the other professions. Which, I suppose is what the game is primarily about.

My question now is, which ship is the best for deep space exploration? Light years from any repair........Voyager had organically self repairing systems and later a delicious Borg to help fix things, an inclusion for v1.2?....I digress:)
 
Heh, I just realised how similar an Anaconda and Voyager are.

Hmm, shame to have to go back to a Cobra but I guess it's the way forward (backward) plus a type 7 for the larger haulage bulletin board missions.

:(
 
You can't compare that to what happens during space travel. Buy your car, drive through an extremely heavy sand storm grinding the color from the metal and with time even eats through said metal and you have an idea what happens during SC.

The thing is if my car was subject to constant sand storms I wouldn't pick a car with lots of glass and thin paint I would go for something with armour that was up to the job and small windows or cameras to drive by.

If it needs more than an occasional hose down it’s not fit for purpose.

I could also mention that anything that even touches the hull of a ship at the speeds involved would not only annihilate the ship but probably a large chunk of the system you’re in as well!!!

Before someone points out that the frame shift drive works in such a way you never actually active relativistic speed with an average density between 0.1 and 1 atom/cm3 in space where is the abrasive action coming from?

To be honest it not the cost that I really object to with this mechanic it that is not believable
 
I guess it wouldn't hurt so much if the ship wasn't designed to spend many hours in deep space, without repair, bombing around systems scanning bodies that could be great distances away.

But then maybe the mechanic is designed to stop you getting too far away from core sectors...
 
I like the wear and tear idea, but the rate of degragation is way too fast.

IMO it should be a cost of running a ship you've had for a very long time.

Don't ask me to exactlty define very long. But I'm talking really lived in for months of play.
 
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Agreed, I like it, but as you say it's got to be toned down.

I don't think my 20 minute supercruise should cost that much! :D
 
No, but you can assume the FSD projects a field or bubble of some sort to protect the ship and enable the warping of space-time.

It's a simple fact of life in space that micro-meteors are ship killers, and you can't just assume the FSD doesn't deal with them in an effective manner. At superluminal speeds, any particles of dust colliding with or penetrating the FSD field would erupt with incredible amounts of energy, if they survived the transition into the field at all they would be travelling at 1C and colliding with the ship would penetrate the entire thing.

Well here's some research actually done on this, provided the FSD is anything like an Alcubierre warp drive:
http://arxiv.org/abs/1202.5708

The quick version is: the bubble itself protects the ship from particles around it, but they accumulate and when you stop you'd likely annihilate anything in front of your direction of motion; now that's a nasty side-effect and quite the game breaker.

Naturally I don't think any of the above is relevant in the ED universe.
 
Yeah. That's my point.

The fsd has to be protecting the ship, or its done for, no matter how tough the thing is.

As for the particle buildup, there are theories that the shape could mitigate the superluminal shockwave. So we can assume something to that effect. Or that it's not a problem in this game's reality.
 
Agreed, I like it, but as you say it's got to be toned down.

I don't think my 20 minute supercruise should cost that much! :D

I supercruised most of last night in my ASP and came away with under 5K cred repair bill for W&T for a three hour gaming session. In that time I made 3+ million profit. So my W&T came out to about 0.16% of my income. Not sure how you drive, but I kept mine in the middle of the blue bars and had no issue over several hours of trading. Was interdicted a couple of times, but submitted and took no damage from SC exit then blasted them before they could get my shields down.

Stuff degrades over time just sitting there. Take that same item up to an appreciable percentage of light speed, add -450F temps, cosmic rays, intense sunlight, and impacts from micro-meteors and you'll have to pay out a few Bob to get it back in shape.

If you don't want to pay maintenance on a tractor trailer, get a hatchback.
 
Jesus, what a stupid game mechanic. Maybe a few thousand people enjoy constantly being punished in various ways for playing the game but the vast majority of us are not basement dwellers and hate this kind of thing. Anyone who thinks this kind of system is good isn't in the majority. There might be more of you on the forums, but you are certainly the minority outside of this very small community.
 
I supercruised most of last night in my ASP and came away with under 5K cred repair bill for W&T for a three hour gaming session.


I think this leads back to my original question. What is the best way to reduce the cost, were you flat out or at reduced speed?
 
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