Notoriety: an environmental sin

I'm not sure that there was really a concept of "international law" at the same time as privateers existed in significant numbers.

Sure, the French aren't going to be too bothered about an English privateer who raids Spanish trade ships ... but Spain will still hang them if they catch them.

At the moment it's a bit like Greenbeard, standing in the dock in Valencia, the prosecutor reading out the list of shipping lost at his hand, the judge asking how he pleads as a formality before the execution, and him saying "Tis true, I sunk those ships, but I did it all for the English" ... and the judge saying "The English? Spain's mortal enemy at sea?! ... Well, you're free to go."
The thing is FD could have had a good play with this.

If factions belonging to a superpower pooled bounties immediately rather than doing it locally (i.e. mess up an Imp system and all Imp stations exclude you on sight) then I think it would be much better, because then superpowers actually count for something and that being an Indy keeps your rep local.

At the same time, anarchies go Elite 84 levels of violence (so they are not the 'soft' option) and suddenly the lone indy systems start to actually feel alone.

My biggest gripe with the C+P is that it treats all system bounties hyper locally and nothing feels joined up, even though you have superpowers that would act like that umbrella linking them. Add to this you could then slot in powers from Powerplay to offset being indy and local into a proxy police force (sort of a more lose and player driven superpower of sorts).
 
At the moment it's a bit like Greenbeard, standing in the dock in Valencia, the prosecutor reading out the list of shipping lost at his hand, the judge asking how he pleads as a formality before the execution, and him saying "Tis true, I sunk those ships, but I did it all for the English" ... and the judge saying "The English? Spain's mortal enemy at sea?! ... Well, you're free to go."

At one time, though, that's more or less what would have happened. It's the whole point of letters of marque and reprisal. Privateers were protected against punishment for piracy so long as they restricted themselves to the targets they were authorized to attack.

In my own country's present laws we don't recognize letters of marque and reprisal. I'm not sure just when that happened, but during our civil war there was some controversy about it; one trial ended in a hung jury, while at least one other ended in a conviction. It would have to depend on just what happened and whether the jury was breathing fire.
 
At one time, though, that's more or less what would have happened. It's the whole point of letters of marque and reprisal. Privateers were protected against punishment for piracy so long as they restricted themselves to the targets they were authorized to attack.

In my own country's present laws we don't recognize letters of marque and reprisal. I'm not sure just when that happened, but during our civil war there was some controversy about it; one trial ended in a hung jury, while at least one other ended in a conviction. It would have to depend on just what happened and whether the jury was breathing fire.
Again FD could have a laugh with this concept in that you 'pledge' to a superpower much like you do with a Powerplay power.

If you did that, maybe you secretly get cash for messing up other superpowers ships- say, you get x10 the value of pirated rival s.power cargoes. However, you suffer doublt rep loss if you poop in your own back yard- or that if you are scanned you become 'hot' and the s.power disowns you for a set time.
 
Just got notoriety for doing an odyssey ground mission (settlement raid). Since when we are getting notoriety by following mission instructions? Now i am forced to keep my computer running just to get rid of this ********! Besides this:

Keeping the computer running to get it removed is a complete waist of energy and resources. It is not understandable FDEV forcing its customers to become polluters, while nearly every big company is trying to become energy neutral and while governments are supporting energy saving. Therefor the "Notoriety" feature is absolutly not state of the art and must be reworked or removed intirely - to safe energy - to safe our planet!

I want to suggest the following sollution:
  • no notoriety at all
  • low bounties if you do illegal missions like settlement raids or massacre missions
  • very high bounties for doing illegal stuff without a mission (current bounty system is good but should be doubled)
  • extremly high bounties (i.e. 20 mio) if you are killing players with crime report activated while not beeing in a combat zone and / or an anarchy system and no bounties for killing players with crime report off. This gives the players the possibility to choose their own path.
  • sending special forces after players if they have more than $$$ bounty (replace $$$ with a value of your choice)
  • bounties must be paid on death. if you dont have enough money you are force to sell all your assets. If you still dont have enough money to pay your bounty you have to start in a sidewinder again with 1000 CR in your purse.
  • players who are killing other players with bounties should get a reward (but not a money reward). maybe a new rank like "bountyhunter"?

Happy discussing!
thats the point, FDev wants you to keep your game running. BDO dues the same thing with non combat content. The more players logged in, the higher the numbers for the board.
 
Notoriety was designed to prevent players from grinding NPC ships (civilian and system authority) in open space to influence the BGS. It was never designed to punish the player for doing missions. Still: the current CaP system is a waste of energy and needs a hard rework.
 
Screaming at a game to remove a mechanic because it "forces" you to leave your computer on because you feel doing so hurts the environment confuses me. That's a gameplay mechanic and if anything I enjoy having notoriety since I get free targets to blast to pieces who interdict me, get a bounty for doing so, and then I get to collect said bounty and get the experience towards my combat rank.

If you truly did care for the environment you wouldn't be playing Elite, have an internet connection to look at these forums, own a car (Electric and Gasoline powered), and many other things too numerous to list here. My suggestion to you then is to rethink how you see notoriety and exploit it as much as you can to benefit you.
 
Notoriety was designed to prevent players from grinding NPC ships (civilian and system authority) in open space to influence the BGS. It was never designed to punish the player for doing missions. Still: the current CaP system is a waste of energy and needs a hard rework.
Exactly, On foot has no effect on the BGS. So, you have to ask your self why? What added value would Notoriety give to on foot content? None!? Then why add it? End result is the player has to stay logged-in in order to clear it. There go, more players online for longer time frames and boosting there numbers overall. The only other reason for this is if it was a bug.
 
Alot of cmdrs myself included don't give a rats a** about notoriety. Mines nearly always maxed.
To me it makes no difference.
I still commit crimes get chased, kill who's chasing me, just normal.
It's not harsh enough in my view.!
Could do with more consequences. I'm glad there isn't atm. But l reckon fdev look at perma notoriety cmdrs and wonder if they should change it.?
Honestly it makes little odds.
You use your head.
Live and work an anarchy system. No plod no feds. Total freedom to do what's to be done.
The occasional interdiction is more mats to me.
Then again my ships are all engineered to cater for any situation.
So I advocate a buff to notoriety. Make it much much more consequential.
Ideas as to how.?
One I had was no rebuy or ability to buy new ships, whilst notorious. Simple. That would make you think long n hard hehehehe

o7
 
Alot of cmdrs myself included don't give a rats a** about notoriety. Mines nearly always maxed.
To me it makes no difference.
I still commit crimes get chased, kill who's chasing me, just normal.
It's not harsh enough in my view.!
Could do with more consequences. I'm glad there isn't atm. But l reckon fdev look at perma notoriety cmdrs and wonder if they should change it.?
Honestly it makes little odds.
You use your head.
Live and work an anarchy system. No plod no feds. Total freedom to do what's to be done.
The occasional interdiction is more mats to me.
Then again my ships are all engineered to cater for any situation.
So I advocate a buff to notoriety. Make it much much more consequential.
Ideas as to how.?
One I had was no rebuy or ability to buy new ships, whilst notorious. Simple. That would make you think long n hard hehehehe

o7
So it seems for the "real criminals" it makes no difference if they have notoriety or not. This is actually one of the biggest arguments for notoriety beeing absolutly useless. It would just make more sense to raise the fines and bounties, like i allready suggested, because this is the only thing that might hurt you, as you stated. Combined with "criminals" (with high bounties) beeing chased by these nice spec ops, who are bypassing your shields, going straight for your power plant, solves several issues at the same time:
1) you punish the "criminals" once they get caught due to massive ammount of credits they have to pay
2) you dont force players into a specific playstyle to get rid of notoriety. They can just pay their bounty and move on.
3) yon dont force player to have the game running ato get rid of the bounties (or notoriety before getting rid of the bounties) wich defenatly would safe energy

Dont get me wrong, i am not against a crime and punishment system at all, but it must be reworked and it is pretty easy to do.
 
Again FD could have a laugh with this concept in that you 'pledge' to a superpower much like you do with a Powerplay power.

If you did that, maybe you secretly get cash for messing up other superpowers ships- say, you get x10 the value of pirated rival s.power cargoes. However, you suffer doublt rep loss if you poop in your own back yard- or that if you are scanned you become 'hot' and the s.power disowns you for a set time.
stop the burgers franchise your account all ready overflow. :)
 

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This I think is where notoriety and the C&P system in general falls down in its current implementation, and this suggestion would make it even worse.

  • I go to faction A's base and kill them all - bad, very bad, huge bounty, huge notoriety
  • I go to faction A's base and kill them all because their enemy faction B told me too - absolutely fine? / token slap on the wrist?

Why should faction A care what my motivation was? If they're fine with it because faction B told me too, can I hold up a card saying that during the mission to stop them shooting back?

Anarchy factions get this especially badly - we're told that they don't recognise the law and bounties, so:
  • in their own space you can gun down their own ships without consequence
  • in lawful space, shooting a wanted anarchy ship is also consequence free
  • in lawful space, shooting a clean anarchy ship gets you a bounty from the local authority and a reputation decrease with the anarchy faction. What?

I've suggested elsewhere that the ultimate problem is viewing CMDR actions through a prism of "legal/illegal" when a better one for a bunch of nomadic amoral space mercenaries would be "does this faction approve or disapprove?" - scrap bounties entirely, handle consequences through the rep system, use non-factional ships/humanoids where the design requires pure cannon fodder (RES, scavengers, etc).
It is a matter of game mechanics. If you accept an illegal mission, you should be punished by the target faction with a fine / bounty if getting caught, but you should not be punished by fdev not beeing able to pay off your bounty and to keep your computer on for x-hours.

Regarding Anarchy PMFs: They have chosen on purpose to not submit to any rules. As anarchist you cant blame other powers not punishing actions against your faction, whilst you claim to not get punished for crimes commiting against all other factions in your own terretories. :)
 
Being wanted atm is simply over rated.
Having more consequences would deter criminals. Especially casual ones who out of mission completion, acquired it.
But there's not enough legal missions on foot atm giving legit folks the option to stay clean.
The game needs stun weps.
And more legit on foot missions that have next to zero risk of being flagged upon completion.
 
3) yon dont force player to have the game running ato get rid of the bounties (or notoriety before getting rid of the bounties) wich defenatly would safe energy

but you should not be punished by fdev not beeing able to pay off your bounty and to keep your computer on for x-hours.

how often must ppl explain that this is a wrong assumption?
and that your stupid pollution-argument is , well, none!
 
how often must ppl explain that this is a wrong assumption?
and that your stupid pollution-argument is , well, none!
I am pretty sure, you can explain why a mechanic, wich forces us to have a computer running, is not a waste of energy. Try to convince me this is not beeing pollution.

I know alot of players who are getting their notoriety to max and keeping their machine running over night and the next day to have their notoriety reduced to 0, to just be able to play "normal" mode again, when they are back from work.
 
It is a matter of game mechanics. If you accept an illegal mission, you should be punished by the target faction with a fine / bounty if getting caught, but you should not be punished by fdev not beeing able to pay off your bounty and to keep your computer on for x-hours.
Yes ... I'm agreeing with you in that respect. Notoriety is a silly mechanism because it's faction agnostic - if you kill faction A on faction B's orders, notoriety also harms you with faction B. For the first time with Odyssey we have a situation where illegal acts are both strongly encouraged by the game and affected by notoriety, and so the fact that it was a bad idea before actually comes through.

On the other hand, I do think that it should also be impossible to pay off bounties at notoriety 0 - you attack a faction, they then don't like it. Faction B will be fine with you, but faction A shouldn't let you give a token payment to an IF and be back to normal.

That would solve the "keep your computer on to avoid dealing with the consequences issue" ... because you'd actually be stuck with that bounty permanently until killed or you did something more consequential than give 1000 cr to an IF to pay it off. Over time you'd develop a network of allies and enemies. The time-based delay is bad, not because you can't live with notoriety, but because it is so easily bypassed, which then makes it pointless.

Regarding Anarchy PMFs: They have chosen on purpose to not submit to any rules. As anarchist you cant blame other powers not punishing actions against your faction, whilst you claim to not get punished for crimes commiting against all other factions in your own terretories. :)
Not the point I'm making - and it applies equally to the various NPC anarchy factions.

Anarchies say they don't submit to anyone else's rules. But actually, what they do is submit entirely to other people's rules when operating in that jurisdiction. Anarchy factions view it as perfectly legitimate to kill their people on someone else's say-so ... but more, they view it as illegitimate to kill their people outside their jurisdiction if the jurisdiction owner agrees. If anything they're more subordinate to other people's rules than a typical lawful faction is!

Maybe this table will make it clearer what I think the problem is.
What does Anarchy A think if you shoot one of their ships...flying in Anarchy A's jurisdiction...flying in Corporate C's jurisdiction
...which has a bounty issued by Corporate CThis is fine, go ahead and kill our colleagueThis is fine, go ahead and kill our colleague
...which has no bounty issued by Corporate CThis is fine, go ahead and kill our colleagueYou murderer! You'll pay for that!
If they don't submit to anyone else's rules, then which jurisdiction the kill takes place in (they don't recognise jurisdictions) and whether they have a corporate bounty (they don't recognise the legitimacy of that bounty) shouldn't be at all relevant. Bizarrely, they instead only care in the situation which the Corporation says they should care about.
 
Having more consequences would deter criminals. Especially casual ones who out of mission completion, acquired it.
Isn´t that the intention of a crime and punishement system? Getting rid of notoriety would actually help "casual criminals", cause they are able to pay their fines / bounties straight away and they dont have to wait x hours to continue their legal play.
But there's not enough legal missions on foot atm giving legit folks the option to stay clean.
The game needs stun weps.
And more legit on foot missions that have next to zero risk of being flagged upon completion.
Stun weapons.... hmmmm could be solution too. Gonna think about this
 
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