Notoriety is not going down. Outfitting (only) locked out?? Have I missed something fundamental?

[Sylow]

Dude, this AFKing is something I am NEVER going to do. Sit there with my 1080gtx burning rainforests for absolutely no reason except to compnesate for a poorly thought out game mechanism? You have GOT to be joking, I have more social conscience than that, and besides, I will rarely want to tie my pc up (even with Elite minimised) for 14 hours for that reason.

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And i never expected you to do that. If you would do it, this thread wouldn't exist at all. But it also can't be ignored that AFK-ing notoriety off is an actual possibility and i am rather certain that a number of people use it.
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1. I don't see anyone saying they thought that is the case in the thread.
2. I don't see anyone believing you can't launch in a wanted ship?

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Maybe. But some posting a little above mine basically said that the game could not be played any more with notoriety. So, if you can log in and launch, i would wonder what would prevent prevent people from playing, albeit within the limitation of being treated as a criminal?
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3. I don't WANT to go to an Anarchy system with a shipyard, I want to not have to wait 14 hours in my home system to outfit my ship! That's mad!? The ENTIRE DURATION of a normal triple A action game. As a solution to the problem its attempting to solve, it is the equivalent of a nuclear strike on an anthill, and besides, it's COMPLETELY illogical that I should be denied services in a jurisdiction that I have never, ever committed a crime in, only ever been lauded as a great and trusted hero and ally, slayer of HUNDREDS of Pirate Lords and Terrorists, and I get no ability to explain my side of the story before I'm denied outfitting? Insane.

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I really consider this a bit unreasonable. I mean, the option is there to go to another system, usually it's a rather short trip. You switch your ship, everything is back to normal, except that the hot ship is out of action for a while, till notoriety is gone again. A usually rather short trip to an anarchy system is really a comparatively easy way out. If you decide to rather stay on a hot ship, that's your own choice, but it's unfair to blame the game for it, as an alternative is available.
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On the jurisdiction where you did nothing: you did it within the range of the superpower. You commit murder in New York, they will also come for you in Texas. (But not in Central Africa. ) And within the scope of the game, it's not even that somebody is coming for you, it's only that the gun dealer might not be interested in modifying the shotgun used for murder. I'm sorry that you somehow see it that harshly, but it's not like you can't work with the present system.
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And on the topic of being a trusted hero and everything: so a decorated veteran comes home from war. He snaps and starts killing people. He'll remain free due to him being a decorated war hero? I doubt that. Sure, in the real world you'd be quesitoned and everything, but we have to work with the scope and mechanics of the game. And within these limitations the current system is not unreasonable.
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4. It;s more fun to kil all the 7 ships. This is a game, remember, it's supposed to be fun?

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Sure. But isn't it an upgrade of the game, that commiting crimes can finally feel like crime? I mean, i do assassination missions, i just pick legal ones. It's the very same style of "find and eliminate 6 ships", albeit without any notoriety. (I once during one of them got me a fine. Reckless weapons discharge. I killed the first ship, switched to the next and started firing. Unfortunately the second target never fired on me yet (apparently it was still chasing the "victim ship" which often is present in the instance) and i haven't scanned it yet. My mistake, but as the scan then completed, i neither got a bounty nor notoriety.
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So really, i see being criminal mostly as personal choice. Accidents sometimes happen, but you can usually retreat and leave an instance before it turns into murder. If you opt to go for murder instead, it's your own call. Yes, the game is moving a bit away from the image of being a game without consequences and towards being a (still very simplified) representation of an in-game world, where actions have consequences. It's what many players wanted and it is the foundation necessary to finally be able to build criminal gameplay upon.
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Don't treat me (as a thread participant, I know you aren't quoting me or speaking to me directly, but you know I was going to read this) like an idiot and don't put words in people's mouths either, we usually see eye-to-eye on MANY things, I'm sure that's what prompted you to say 'where is aashen', so come on man, if you want to talk about it with me, let's talk about it, I consider you a forum friend, leave the unhelpful blanket generalisations out though please.

This is contrary to the spirit and ethos of the game so far and is an overmeasured reaction to griefing. Nobody needs to give me that horse sht about improving criminal gameplay, cos criminal gameplay still sucks giant hairy donkey balls, it's just a harsh punishment system that has now been added in order to make griefing a lot more inconvenient. Well, it's made the whole game a lot more inconvenient. I was always 'careful', I made the occasional mistake, and I paid the consequences, now I'm going to have to be 'super' careful. And if I fail at that one day, I'll be ranting here in the forums again about how idiotic it is, you can bet on it.

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Yet i think you take this more serious than it is. You do know how to get out of the issue. You can go to another system and switch ship. You have your fleet, you have options.

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Where i agree is that criminal gameplay still is very weak. Formerly we had baby-criminals and the police shaking their finger and saying "ts ts ts". Now we have consequence for crimes. What's still missing is more rewarding criminal gameplay. The "steal from megaships" is a new minigame. It's lucrative, but it's a curiosity. There's still a lot to be done there, but a crime and punishment system is an absolute necessity to be able to do anything like that. As long as crime has no consequences at all, there can be no meaningful crime in the game.
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[Aashenfox]

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And i never expected you to do that. If you would do it, this thread wouldn't exist at all. But it also can't be ignored that AFK-ing notoriety off is an actual possibility and i am rather certain that a number of people use it.
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Maybe. But some posting a little above mine basically said that the game could not be played any more with notoriety. So, if you can log in and launch, i would wonder what would prevent prevent people from playing, albeit within the limitation of being treated as a criminal?
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I really consider this a bit unreasonable. I mean, the option is there to go to another system, usually it's a rather short trip. You switch your ship, everything is back to normal, except that the hot ship is out of action for a while, till notoriety is gone again. A usually rather short trip to an anarchy system is really a comparatively easy way out. If you decide to rather stay on a hot ship, that's your own choice, but it's unfair to blame the game for it, as an alternative is available.
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On the jurisdiction where you did nothing: you did it within the range of the superpower. You commit murder in New York, they will also come for you in Texas. (But not in Central Africa. ) And within the scope of the game, it's not even that somebody is coming for you, it's only that the gun dealer might not be interested in modifying the shotgun used for murder. I'm sorry that you somehow see it that harshly, but it's not like you can't work with the present system.
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And on the topic of being a trusted hero and everything: so a decorated veteran comes home from war. He snaps and starts killing people. He'll remain free due to him being a decorated war hero? I doubt that. Sure, in the real world you'd be quesitoned and everything, but we have to work with the scope and mechanics of the game. And within these limitations the current system is not unreasonable.
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Sure. But isn't it an upgrade of the game, that commiting crimes can finally feel like crime? I mean, i do assassination missions, i just pick legal ones. It's the very same style of "find and eliminate 6 ships", albeit without any notoriety. (I once during one of them got me a fine. Reckless weapons discharge. I killed the first ship, switched to the next and started firing. Unfortunately the second target never fired on me yet (apparently it was still chasing the "victim ship" which often is present in the instance) and i haven't scanned it yet. My mistake, but as the scan then completed, i neither got a bounty nor notoriety.
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So really, i see being criminal mostly as personal choice. Accidents sometimes happen, but you can usually retreat and leave an instance before it turns into murder. If you opt to go for murder instead, it's your own call. Yes, the game is moving a bit away from the image of being a game without consequences and towards being a (still very simplified) representation of an in-game world, where actions have consequences. It's what many players wanted and it is the foundation necessary to finally be able to build criminal gameplay upon.
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Yet i think you take this more serious than it is. You do know how to get out of the issue. You can go to another system and switch ship. You have your fleet, you have options.

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Where i agree is that criminal gameplay still is very weak. Formerly we had baby-criminals and the police shaking their finger and saying "ts ts ts". Now we have consequence for crimes. What's still missing is more rewarding criminal gameplay. The "steal from megaships" is a new minigame. It's lucrative, but it's a curiosity. There's still a lot to be done there, but a crime and punishment system is an absolute necessity to be able to do anything like that. As long as crime has no consequences at all, there can be no meaningful crime in the game.
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You extrapolate my points as you want to see them so you can shoot them down. The example of the war vet returning is not remotely valid. See my description of the encounter in earlier posts, this was not me going on ANY kind of murder spree, this was me preserving my right to exist in the instance and make the occasional mistake without it resulting in me getting locked out of services in a totally different jurisdiction for the equivalent of the duration of a normal game. Did you not see the post where I kid you not, I feel that my killing them was in MY self defense? What right do they have to make me flee from an instance because I hit them once or twice cos either they can't keep out of fire lines, or I get a bit enthusiastic (god forbid I should get a bit excited and enthusiastic in this game gosh, maybe even a little bloodthirsty? Without it having an illogical consequence?), and am obviously NOT trying to kill them, because if I was they wouldn't have lasted long enough to annoy me. The whole thing is poor from start to finish mate, nothing you've said indicates otherwise, the only difference between us is that you choose to live with it, I choose to rant about it.

Once again. If you have harsh punishment, there needs to be a way to comm sorry mate, my bad, stand down!

Truth told, I don't plan on ever getting my notoriety up to 9 again, but still. Those black ops missions make my point for me about fun vs are you kidding?

 

[Sylow]

You extrapolate my points as you want to see them so you can shoot them down. The example of the war vet returning is rubbish.

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In that case i am sorry. I do not intend to do that, i just try to work with what i read here.
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Did you not see the post where I kid you not, I feel that my killing them was in MY self defense. What right do they have to make me flee from an instance because I hit them once with a PA, and am obviously NOT trying to kill them, because if I was they wouldn't have lasted long enough to annoy me. The whole thing is poor from start to finish mate, nothing you've said indicates otherwise, the only difference between us is that you choose to live with it, I choose to rant about it.

Once again. If you have harsh punishment, there needs to be a way to comm sorry mate, my bad, stand down!

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I have seen that posting. And still i am convinced that you could just as well have run away instead of killing them. I understand that the PA shot was an accident, but i also see both sides of the problem. A big PA does a lot of damage, and you might have two of them on your fire group. (My Chieftain does, for example. )
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Can it be that you hit some target by accident? Yes, especially if you have them focused, so the projectiles can hit a ship which you can barely see and sure won't notice in a wild fight. Is it logical that a ship from far away, hit by one stray shot, comes to fight against you? That's very discussable, it can easily be argued that it would be more logical for that ship to retreat. But then look at some other personalities even in this forum (not you, and i won't call names), and you have to admit that moving in for retribution is not outside of the scope of possible actions. And yes, in full realism the "i am sorry" would be an option. But please also consider how exploitable any simply implementation would be. It would result in even more (very justified) complaints. Then it would become necessary to "do it right", but this is a massive undertaking. The effort by far outweights the gain for the game.
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So yes, retreating from the instance may be a crutch, but it's a workable solution. If your damage was below the treshold, you only got a fine and can return right away. If it is a bounty, you still have no notoriety, so one or two jumps a low sec system and you can fix it. Neither course of action gives you notoriety, so it's always quickly fixed.
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And yes, indeed i advocate working with the system here. I also have some ideas how notoriety could be improved, i also dislike the whole "decays based on online time" system, when it could have so much more gameplay bound to it. (E.g. missions required to get rid of it, but also missions and activities which only become available when you have high notoriety. )
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What really irritates me in this whole thread are some statement of yours, which make it sound like notoriety now is a gamebreaker and we're close to somebody asking if he could have your stuff. In my eyes it currently is a raw system. It can be used for so much more than it currently does, but i wouldn't fight against it, but rather try to get it upgraded and get it used in more ways. Sure it currently closes some doors, but as in another thread somebody (i think it was Sleutelbos) suggested, it could also open some new doors.
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[Aashenfox]

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In that case i am sorry. I do not intend to do that, i just try to work with what i read here.
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I have seen that posting. And still i am convinced that you could just as well have run away instead of killing them. I understand that the PA shot was an accident, but i also see both sides of the problem. A big PA does a lot of damage, and you might have two of them on your fire group. (My Chieftain does, for example. )
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Can it be that you hit some target by accident? Yes, especially if you have them focused, so the projectiles can hit a ship which you can barely see and sure won't notice in a wild fight. Is it logical that a ship from far away, hit by one stray shot, comes to fight against you? That's very discussable, it can easily be argued that it would be more logical for that ship to retreat. But then look at some other personalities even in this forum (not you, and i won't call names), and you have to admit that moving in for retribution is not outside of the scope of possible actions. And yes, in full realism the "i am sorry" would be an option. But please also consider how exploitable any simply implementation would be. It would result in even more (very justified) complaints. Then it would become necessary to "do it right", but this is a massive undertaking. The effort by far outweights the gain for the game.
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So yes, retreating from the instance may be a crutch, but it's a workable solution. If your damage was below the treshold, you only got a fine and can return right away. If it is a bounty, you still have no notoriety, so one or two jumps a low sec system and you can fix it. Neither course of action gives you notoriety, so it's always quickly fixed.
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And yes, indeed i advocate working with the system here. I also have some ideas how notoriety could be improved, i also dislike the whole "decays based on online time" system, when it could have so much more gameplay bound to it. (E.g. missions required to get rid of it, but also missions and activities which only become available when you have high notoriety. )
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What really irritates me in this whole thread are some statement of yours, which make it sound like notoriety now is a gamebreaker and we're close to somebody asking if he could have your stuff. In my eyes it currently is a raw system. It can be used for so much more than it currently does, but i wouldn't fight against it, but rather try to get it upgraded and get it used in more ways. Sure it currently closes some doors, but as in another thread somebody (i think it was Sleutelbos) suggested, it could also open some new doors.
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Fair enough. I do not intend to imply that notoriety is a game breaker (nor thought that I had). I think it's cruel and inappropriate under too many circumstances to justify the times when it's not. I'm going to enjoy any place I can have a FF incident a bit less now. You think that was what they wanted to achieve?

 

[CMDR_Sepu]

I don't see it as a gamebreaker either. Had notoriety/bounty couple of times, after I realized notoriety doesn't go down while idling in station, I just went to a system couple of jumps away and continued doing resource extraction sites there... when notoriety was down, went to low sec system, got rid of bounty on my head and returned to the original system.

 

[Sylow]

Fair enough. I do not intend to imply that notoriety is a game breaker (nor thought that I had). I think it's cruel and inappropriate under too many circumstances to justify the times when it's not. I'm going to enjoy any place I can have a FF incident a bit less now. You think that was what they wanted to achieve?

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Then i am again sorry for my reaction. For me some postings really read like you saw notoriety as game breaker, although that might be more based on how some people reacted to your postings, than on what you wrote yourself. Again i am sorry for apparently seeing it more drastical than you intended it to be. (I am not a native english speaker, so some nuances are lost on me. )
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On notorietiy itself, i agree that the two hours per tick are not perfect. I also didn't like the old "one hour per tick". During the beta due to many people demanding it to be raised. Demands were up to the level of "double the time for each point of notoriety", not even understanding that this would scale up to over 42 days of online time to recover from. Anyway, i also dislike a pure time based system, for mentioned reasons. I'd rather have a short timer, which then would lead to a mission. It would replace waiting times with actual gameplay. But in one thread, where i suggested that, Sandro stated that they only increase the timer and for the moment won't do more to notoriety. Considering that he also replied to one of my postings, where it was one of the points i mentioned (although he replied to another aspect i covered), means that he very much is aware of the idea, but decided against it.
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And on never going to high notoriety again: that's true for us "legal" players. But if FD implements some actual high-notoriety support, some people will live there. Just a rough idea would be that people with very high notoriety might get missions for extra-boosted-bonus-feature-wing-assassination-missions or get tip-offs for highly defended freighters with extra lucrative cargo. Sure we're not there yet, but that's something worth campaigning for in my eyes.
(And i looked it up, it was Sleutelbos where i read that idea first. )
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[Wizz15]

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And on never going to high notoriety again: that's true for us "legal" players. But if FD implements some actual high-notoriety support, some people will live there. Just a rough idea would be that people with very high notoriety might get missions for extra-boosted-bonus-feature-wing-assassination-missions or get tip-offs for highly defended freighters with extra lucrative cargo. Sure we're not there yet, but that's something worth campaigning for in my eyes.
(And i looked it up, it was Sleutelbos where i read that idea first. )
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I quite like that missions idea, if it would also work for the inverse situation. Where you can speed up notoriety decay as mission reward or with special mission types perhaps. Maybe not to get rid of the decay entirely, but perhaps speed up the progression by actively doing missions for perhaps low credit/rep but faster decay.

Like some sort of civil service to prove you are not a bad guy after all

 

[Lukiepookie]

I agree with OP. This is just too much to enjoy, and it disproportionately affects people who become wanted accidentally or have a few accidental murders. Yet npc's will still follow you in non wanted systems and become wanted after shooting you, yet notoriety is working as intended. k.
People said too many hoops, and FD responded by adding another and now nobody can outfit anything anywhere.
This is not content. If you all are finding this way too much to be fun anymore, you're not alone. Haven't really been able to play my favorite game since 3.0 and it's just... so disappointing.

 

[Aashenfox]

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Then i am again sorry for my reaction. For me some postings really read like you saw notoriety as game breaker, although that might be more based on how some people reacted to your postings, than on what you wrote yourself. Again i am sorry for apparently seeing it more drastical than you intended it to be. (I am not a native english speaker, so some nuances are lost on me. )
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On notorietiy itself, i agree that the two hours per tick are not perfect. I also didn't like the old "one hour per tick". During the beta due to many people demanding it to be raised. Demands were up to the level of "double the time for each point of notoriety", not even understanding that this would scale up to over 42 days of online time to recover from. Anyway, i also dislike a pure time based system, for mentioned reasons. I'd rather have a short timer, which then would lead to a mission. It would replace waiting times with actual gameplay. But in one thread, where i suggested that, Sandro stated that they only increase the timer and for the moment won't do more to notoriety. Considering that he also replied to one of my postings, where it was one of the points i mentioned (although he replied to another aspect i covered), means that he very much is aware of the idea, but decided against it.
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And on never going to high notoriety again: that's true for us "legal" players. But if FD implements some actual high-notoriety support, some people will live there. Just a rough idea would be that people with very high notoriety might get missions for extra-boosted-bonus-feature-wing-assassination-missions or get tip-offs for highly defended freighters with extra lucrative cargo. Sure we're not there yet, but that's something worth campaigning for in my eyes.
(And i looked it up, it was Sleutelbos where i read that idea first. )
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To be fair to you I was exaggerating and being dramatic, I do that a bit when I'm annoyed, Elite has so much of my life in it, ya know.

I'm all for more gameplay, sure. The main issue with notoriety is that it is too long per tick if you are not going to allow it to decay offline.

 

[max9000]

I'm doing a lap around Proxima Centauri just to waste time, then I'll be able to get back to the mission I was doing, strangely enough got fined for killing a wanted :/

 

[Brosa]

I accidentally got a bounty for trespassing when I landed too close to a ground base at a planet a couple of days ago.
Since then the outfittings at all stations have been locked. It's very annoying so eventually I had to google it and now I realized why.

But how do I get out of this unfortunate situation?
The only way is to try to find an interstellar factors contact with large landing pads, so I can pay the fine?

 

[Vardaugas]

I accidentally got a bounty for trespassing when I landed too close to a ground base at a planet a couple of days ago.
Since then the outfittings at all stations have been locked. It's very annoying so eventually I had to google it and now I realized why.

But how do I get out of this unfortunate situation?
The only way is to try to find an interstellar factors contact with large landing pads, so I can pay the fine?

Go to the galaxy map, filter by government, select anarchy, tick the show by size box, select some higher population and then check the resulting systems for a starport. Those have an IF.

 

[Mohrgan]

Go to the galaxy map, filter by government, select anarchy, tick the show by size box, select some higher population and then check the resulting systems for a starport. Those have an IF.

Low Security systems still have IF contacts as well.

 

[Pyrotiger]

Got my first notorious point. Wooo.

Now I'm flying through space aimlessly. How long do I have to do this half-baked for?

 

[Mohrgan]

Got my first notorious point. Wooo.

Now I'm flying through space aimlessly. How long do I have to do this half-baked for?

Two hours of in game time. But, you don't have to be idle. You can continue to operate. You must use an IF contact to clear it, once you have lost the Notoriety.

 

[Pyrotiger]

I have the contact. I already waited two hours at the station, then wondered why the point was still there. Ooo.

 

[Mohrgan]

I have the contact. I already waited two hours at the station, then wondered why the point was still there. Ooo.

If you wait the timer out on the pad, you have to kick the system to recognize the expired timer. I've heard you need to switch ships, or change instances somehow, for it to drop off.

 

[Talby Fess]

Im new to the game so not sure how notoriety works, but cant outfit OR use the galaxy map to plot courses to go pay off the fine...