General / Off-Topic Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris is Burning

[lysan]

Errr.....Little technical problem.

The main donations are being made by wealthy, are A: Being offered by individuals that do not pay their taxes in the E.U., even though they are French and B: They will get a 60% tax deduction, on their donations. Plus: Some one stood up in the French parliament and requested that they get a 90% tax relief, on the donations. This was how the real issue, of the tax dodgers, became public.

So the basic issue with the 'people' is that these 'fat cats' are trying to out bid each other; in the 'look how generous I am' game. But at the same time, they go out of their way, to avoid contributing to the state etc..

Personally, as I said before. I don't really care where the funds come from. However, hypocrisy is just that and this just gives the Yellow vest movement, more to shout about.

The yellow vests will at some point overthrow Macron, and i'm not crying about that, when election comes, there will be a change of politics in France, i would bet on that.

However regarding the donations, no matter how it looks, I hope ND will be rebuild, I've only visited it once a long time ago, but all the large churches in france are very historical and should be preserved.

 

[jasonbarron]

There are limits to what a private individual can acceptably spend their money on, terrorist groups, religious extremists and nationalist propaganda for example.
For many the church is a symbol of repression and abuse which makes this distinctly uncomfortable.

This must be some of that European socialism speak we detest so much here in the States.

 

[Arry]

This must be some of that European socialism speak we detest so much here in the States.

Who is this 'we' you speak of? Would that be those gun toting, wall builders?

 

[jasonbarron]

Who is this 'we' you speak of? Would that be those gun toting, wall builders?

At least 51% of us haven't embraced socialism yet. Gaining popularity with financial illiterates such as AOC millennials and lying hypocrites such as Bernie Sanders, I grant you, but still a few years off before they gain enough power to ruin us.

 

[lysan]

At least 51% of us haven't embraced socialism yet. Gaining popularity with financial illiterates such as AOC millennials and lying hypocrites such as Bernie Sanders, I grant you, but still a few years off before they gain enough power to ruin us.

Who is this 'we' you speak of? Would that be those gun toting, wall builders?

One should be verie verie careful when pointing finger at other people ...

 

[Arry]

At least 51% of us haven't embraced socialism yet. Gaining popularity with financial illiterates such as AOC millennials and lying hypocrites such as Bernie Sanders, I grant you, but still a few years off before they gain enough power to ruin us.

Many of the voters alive today in the U.S; will still remember McCarthyism and the fear of, not following the GOP line.

 

[lysan]

Many of the voters alive today in the U.S; will still remember McCarthyism and the fear of, not following the GOP line.

unfortunately my friend, the pendulum has flipped and now free thinkers and conservatives are hunted, that is just the opposite side of the coin, HOWEVER we are now drifting away from the main station and need to get back before our life support is running out.

 

[Felix DiCestria]

The yellow vests will at some point overthrow Macron, and i'm not crying about that, when election comes, there will be a change of politics in France, i would bet on that.

However regarding the donations, no matter how it looks, I hope ND will be rebuild, I've only visited it once a long time ago, but all the large churches in france are very historical and should be preserved.

Only one way they're going to do it in 5 years... There simply isn't enough oak to do it any other way.

 

[lysan]

Only one way they're going to do it in 5 years... There simply isn't enough oak to do it any other way.

They most likely need to adapt the process.

 

[Ripskar]

To what? Cutting down 22 hectares of oak forest for the roof would make the Gilet Jaune protests look tame.

 

[lysan]

Actually they can use Engineered wood, they don't need to cut any trees down as there are plenty of industrial wood that can be used after it has been processed.

 

[Stigbob]

Who is this 'we' you speak of? Would that be those gun toting, wall builders?

To be fair they haven't actually built a wall. First they downgraded it to a fence, then actual politicians decided it was a comedically bad idea.

 

[jasonbarron]

To be fair they haven't actually built a wall. First they downgraded it to a fence, then actual politicians decided it was a comedically bad idea.

I'm sure you'll forgive me for having a slightly different take on the subject. Given the fact that I'm not a communist we're bound to have at least a few disagreements.

 

[Patrick_68000]

As for concerts, Paris has many venues, the Bataclan for example.

I can not imagine liturgical concerts and classical music at Bataclan.

Big organs have their place in churches and cathedrals. Not at Bataclan or Zenith or Olympia.

 

[Ripskar]

This must be some of that European socialism speak we detest so much here in the States.

Are you being sarcastic or do you honestly think that's socialism?

 

[Patrick_68000]

France 2015; General population; 54% Catholic, 37% No religion. 16-29 age bracket; 23% Catholic, 64% No religion. Only 1.8% of French Catholics are active churchgoers.
The congregation is dying and won't be replaced.
In fact looking into it it would be illegal for the French Government to contribute to the reconstruction.
1905 Separation of Church & Stae

However France has 153 cathedrals on the territory.

87 cathedrals belong to the French State.

Since 1959, the French State, through the Ministry of Culture, finances all maintenance work, repair and restoration, within the limits of the law of December 9, 1905 on the separation of churches and the State.

 

[Patrick_68000]

There is a specific section banning the Republic from funding building work.

Here it is not a construction (in part) but a restoration / repair.

But it is true that funding will not come directly from the French state.

Although with the tax exemptions on the donations, we can say that it is the taxpayer (and therefore the French state) who will compensate for the shortfall, in one way or another by increasing the tax levies.

So the French State will finance a part of the "reconstruction" indirectly with its treasure.

The hypocrisy in a Bernard Arnault announces 200 million euros of donations is in the fact that he will be exempt from taxes up to 60% (I believe) and that it is the French who will pay for him.

Make donations with other people's money is quite magical.

Edit : Bernard Arnault announced that he could not benefit from the tax exemption.

 

[jasonbarron]

Are you being sarcastic or do you honestly think that's socialism?

I think when a collective can tell an individual how much they can spend on something it functions as a decent example of the slavery imposed on individuals under socialism, be it socialism light such as France enjoys or even outright communism.

Call it whatever you want, it's excremental, and I'll fight against that with the last beat of my heart.

 

[Stigbob]

I'm sure you'll forgive me for having a slightly different take on the subject. Given the fact that I'm not a communist we're bound to have at least a few disagreements.

I support everything Comrade Trump does to harm capitalism, that's why we got him elected. The wall though is a step too far its all a bit two millennia out of date, nobody should be taking it seriously.

 

[Felix DiCestria]

I think when a collective can tell an individual how much they can spend on something it functions as a decent example of the slavery imposed on individuals under socialism, be it socialism light such as France enjoys or even outright communism.

Call it whatever you want, it's excremental, and I'll fight against that with the last beat of my heart.

Not funding terrorism would not be recognised as socialism by any European, if anything the policy is viewed as right wing.
As such it comes across as sarcasm but some Americans are uninformed as to what socialism actually means.