Now that micro-jumps are coming (?), who is in for macro jumps in inhabited space? (Witchspace gates poll!)

[Deleted member 38366]

I'd happily settle with a "SuperCruise Afterburner" or something

(just your typical, low-paying Mission Destination - but I want a permit, so I gotta do the good old SuperCruise time-sink. Thank god all those Hutton Orbital runs made me immune to such distances )

 

[NeilF]

I'd happily settle with a "SuperCruise Afterburner" or something

http://www.falconfly.de/temp/ELITE-AwesomeMissionDestinations.jpg
(just your typical, low-paying Mission Destination - but I want a permit, so I gotta do the good old SuperCruise time-sink. Thank god all those Hutton Orbital runs made me immune to such distances )

A slingshot mechanic, to use a body to increase your SC acceleration rate? - https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=94624

 

[BurnyBurns]

I'd happily settle with a "SuperCruise Afterburner" or something

That's more of an alternative/addition to micro jumps. Although the micro jumps as mentioned by Frontier would not help in situations where something was very far out but wasn't orbiting a sun (if that is even possible?).


The problem with crossing the human bubble is not the long time spend in super cruise. You actually try to activate the next loading screen as efficiently and quickly as possible, spending as little time as possible in supercruise only lingering for fuel scoops.

We're talking about a mechanic that sees you trying to activate a loading screen (hyper space jump) as quickly and efficiently as possible. Sometimes 20 or more times in a row. Which btw. also doesn't give you enough time to "Alt"-"Tab" out, as those screens rarely last any longer than 15-20 seconds. Bugs and issues notwithstanding. In that regard, long supercruise journeys are actually a lot more comfortable.


Edit:

I haven't mentioned it, yet. But this precious jumping mechanic lacking the possibility of using reliable, very long range jumps independently of ship type in between (between fixed points), that so many people here seem to be so attached to (space is big yadda yadda...), how exactly does that show me how big space is visually?

By looking at a sun, looking at a loading screen, looking at a sun, looking at a loading screen...


I concur. Something that requires me to sit through so many bloody loading screens to cross it must be really, really big. And reducing those loading screens in number would really break that sense of vastness.

 

[M66]

What If...Jumps to other star systems took 10-20 minutes(or longer)? Exploring the galaxy would actually mean something. As it is now....It takes seconds to explore the surrounding systems. I can 'honk' 100 systems on my lunch break. 'Yawn' I see other CMDR's names on stars/planets and know it really didn't take much of a effort.......'if' travelling to another star was difficult(and it's not),seeing another CMDR's name on a star would be special.

"Buckle up! We'll begin our journey to another star system shortly..Ooops!...We've already arrived! Well, that didn't take very long! Guess you really didn't need to fasten your seat belts!.......We kind of oversold the 'Voyage to the Stars'!....Ooops, while I've been speaking...We've just jumped to 4 different systems!!!"

AND what if the game was designed like that in the first place(20 minutes to explore the next star system)? ? .......Then I came on these forums and asked that we cut the travel times between stars....To say, 6 seconds!! People would go stark raving mad!!! They would say:"The galaxy is huge bro!!... Travelling to another star *should* take minutes! If not hours!

 

[OamodSias]

What If...Jumps to other star systems took 10-20 minutes(or longer)? Exploring the galaxy would actually mean something. As it is now....It takes seconds to explore the surrounding systems. I can 'honk' 100 systems on my lunch break. 'Yawn' I see other CMDR's names on stars/planets and know it really didn't take much of a effort.......'if' travelling to another star was difficult(and it's not),seeing another CMDR's name on a star would be special.

"Buckle up! We'll begin our journey to another star system shortly..Ooops!...We've already arrived! Well, that didn't take very long! Guess you really didn't need to fasten your seat belts!.......We kind of oversold the 'Voyage to the Stars'!....Ooops, while I've been speaking...We've just jumped to 4 different systems!!!"

AND what if the game was designed like that in the first place 20 minutes to explore the next star system? ? Then I came on these forums and asked that we cut the travel times between stars....To say 6 seconds!! People would go stark raving mad!!! They would say:"The galaxy is huge bro!!... Travelling to another star *should* take minutes! If not hours!!!!!"

Whilst you sound like a nutter on acid; you have a point. IMHO, jumps should be longer. In the bubble, we have beacons so the jumps are faster (and you should be able to jump farther); but out of the bubble, jumping is slower and you can't jump as far.

 

[BurnyBurns]

What If...Jumps to other star systems took 10-20 minutes(or longer)? Exploring the galaxy would actually mean something. As it is now....It takes seconds to explore the surrounding systems. I can 'honk' 100 systems on my lunch break. 'Yawn' I see other CMDR's names on stars/planets and know it really didn't take much of a effort.......'if' travelling to another star was difficult(and it's not),seeing another CMDR's name on a star would be special.

"Buckle up! We'll begin our journey to another star system shortly..Ooops!...We've already arrived! Well, that didn't take very long! Guess you really didn't need to fasten your seat belts!.......We kind of oversold the 'Voyage to the Stars'!....Ooops, while I've been speaking...We've just jumped to 4 different systems!!!"

AND what if the game was designed like that in the first place(20 minutes to explore the next star system)? ? .......Then I came on these forums and asked that we cut the travel times between stars....To say, 6 seconds!! People would go stark raving mad!!! They would say:"The galaxy is huge bro!!... Travelling to another star *should* take minutes! If not hours!

You have a point with the advanced discovery scanner (honk). It's trivial and takes out the challenge of exploration. Funnily, with Horizons there's now a much more engaging scanner mechanic to find something in an unknow location (although I must say that the findings are usually underwhelming). The SRV scanner! If there was no infinite range advanced discovery scanner, but a multi-stage scanner which only gave vague hints as to where stars might be in an undiscovered system and what their type is, finding them would actually be a challenge. If the discovery scanner would be limited in range again, you'd have to actually work to find the stars, "drive" up to them and then "honk". Currently the mechanic is: look at the system map, discard the system as you can see at once there are only rocks around and jump to the next. I'd actually ask to make exploration more profitable in such a scenario however! It'd be more engaging as a mechanic, but ridiculously more time consuming.

As for hyper jumps taking time. Sure. Let's make those loading screens 20 minutes long and leave them just as interactive as they are now! That'd go down well.

Elite as a game is currently designed so that jumping between two systems within jump range is trivial and "short". Times for long journeys scale linearily with the covered distance. If the mere jump from one system to the next were to take significant time, the game would have to employ a very different design to not bore everyone out of their minds. Just as much as spending 20 minutes of a 2 hour session in what is supposed to be inhabited space bores me out of my mind and makes me whish it was only 5-10 minutes.

 

[Iskariot]

Sorry to say it, but sounds like people want Oblivion style quick travel.

No that is not what I want.
It doesn't even come close.

OP's proposal is nothing like that either.

 

[Ziljan]

Given how far away some of the permit sectors are, it's inevitable that we will either get jump gates, wormholes, or some kind of large boosts to range.

 

[Ian Phillips]

Or stations close by...

 

[BurnyBurns]

Sorry to say it, but sounds like people want Oblivion style quick travel.

Overlooked this previously. Sometimes I really wish... People would read and understand what I propose in the OP.

No it's not Oblivion style quick travel. While we're at the Elder Scrolls comparisons however, here is one that fits: Morrowind Striders.

 

[Jex =TE=]

Ah, fear of griefers. The bane of any constructive suggestion to improve Elite as a game. See, we should stop selling kitchen knifes, people could be killed with them!

"Owning" places in Elite is inherently impossible due to its instanced nature. A group of players can only block any space in one instance. If one wants to avoid them, one can simply travel around them or go to groups or solo mode.


"Griefers" will automatically pop up as soon as you give players the option to attack each other. Any online game has to live with it, or remove the ability for player 2 player combat. But the fear of griefers should never be the reason why convenience features that would practically benefit all players are downright not implemented at all. The proper way to handle blatant griefers are tools to moderate the game, not gimping the game.

What fear? You can play in SP or GP and how are they going to stop you exactly when you can't even get in the same instance or be on at the time they are on. So a 0.00001% of being griefed and if ur scared of that then i dunno what to say.

Of course, the option to NOT use the jump gates and travel normally to avoid the griefers was just too complicated an idea to get around it too, right

 

[BurnyBurns]

What fear? You can play in SP or GP and how are they going to stop you exactly when you can't even get in the same instance or be on at the time they are on. So a 0.00001% of being griefed and if ur scared of that then i dunno what to say.

Of course, the option to NOT use the jump gates and travel normally to avoid the griefers was just too complicated an idea to get around it too, right

Against whom or what are you arguing again? I'm getting the feeling that we've the exact same view on the matter of "griefers" being a hindrance to the jumpgate proposition.

You didn't read it through, did you?

"Owning" places in Elite is inherently impossible due to its instanced nature. A group of players can only block any space in one instance. If one wants to avoid them, one can simply travel around them or go to groups or solo mode.

 

[Bran Tse Mallory]

Against whom or what are you arguing again? I'm getting the feeling that we've the exact same view on the matter of "griefers" being a hindrance to the jumpgate proposition.

Which are we discussing? Jumpgates or a Strider?

Either way both fit into the post I left in here several pages ago which details how these requests go. I see the same patterns appearing here.

Once you have either the pure jump gate or have a large ship to move many little ships or some kind of strider it will only be a matter of months before that also takes to long and people start to ask for quicker ways to travel - it always happens.

Good luck on getting this but do not be surprised if you don't.

 

[InMemoriamSirocco]

Combat ships are not for travelling. I acknowledge that fact and have found a possible workaround:

Always buy and outfit fighters on site (near or inside the system that you are planning to fight in). Have a travel-worthy secondary ship to get you from A to B.

I use a 30+ ly jump range Asp Explorer for travel/rares trading/smuggling inside the bubble, as well as casual exploration. When I want to fight, I fly to the place where I want to fight in my Asp, store it, buy a Vulture (or whatever ship I wanna fight in) and then outfit it with what's available. I might travel around a bit in the Vulture to find all the modules I need, but I'm not gonna leave the immediate fighting area. I then strip down the FSD to 2E, because I'm not gonna leave the system anyway, and use the saved power for more important stuff like shields, thrusters and lasers.

My combat ship only needs to get me to the nearest Conflict Zone, Strong Signal Source, Distress Call, (Hazardous) RES or (Compromised) Nav Beacon. Once I am done fighting, I strip/downgrade and sell the combat ship again and go on my merry way in my travel ship.

I once went exploring in a mostly A-graded (some C-modules) Vulture which had 8 tons of fuel and 16 ly of jump range, I think... Went to the Coalsack Nebula and back and didn't mind the jump range. But that was a rare exception.

 

[BurnyBurns]

Good luck on getting this but do not be surprised if you don't.

Oh, I won't be surprised if Elite lets long system to system travels continue to be the compelling "hit 'J' for loading screen simulator" it is currently. This is the game that made mindless donation missions the primary means to progress in Navy ranks, turning Navy progression into a "click the bulletin board ad nauseam" simulation after all.


But it doesn't mean I will stop arguing for improvements. So long as I actually care for the game that is.

Always buy and outfit fighters on site (near or inside the system that you are planning to fight in). Have a travel-worthy secondary ship to get you from A to B.

I use a 30+ ly jump range Asp Explorer for travel/rares trading/smuggling inside the bubble, as well as casual exploration. When I want to fight, I fly to the place where I want to fight in my Asp, store it, buy a Vulture (or whatever ship I wanna fight in) and then outfit it with what's available. I might travel around a bit in the Vulture to find all the modules I need, but I'm not gonna leave the immediate fighting area. I then strip down the FSD to 2E, because I'm not gonna leave the system anyway, and use the saved power for more important stuff like shields, thrusters and lasers.

I was talking about improvements with play sessions limited to 2 hours in mind. What you talk about takes two hours alone, if not more. Again, the suggestion to just spend more time in the game does not make watching loading screens for extended stretches of time any more compelling. Replacing that time spend with the loading screens with considerably more time and ingame credits - therefore even more time - spend on a "workaround" makes it somewhat impracticable.

 

[thesnowdog]

It isn't broken and doesn't need fixing imo.

 

[BurnyBurns]

It isn't broken and doesn't need fixing imo.

Who said anything about broken? It's one of the least broken things in Elite! (Notwithstanding the sometimes unreliable instancing.)

It's simply designed in a way that punishes anybody wanting to do a long range travel quickly, even in human inhabited space, by confronting them with a barrage of consequitive loading screens. And it starts to reach unreasonable magnitudes when you have limited play time and want to meet up with people in combat ships.

 

[Zelos1983]

Everything in the bubble is so close. A decent space ship can cover >2000LY per hour. I don't feel we need more instantanium.

 

[Watcher]

I can certainly see the argument for including them but I feel the sense of actually having to travel is an important aspect of the game.
But yes, I see the reasoning and you could certainly try and gatekeeper that with a cost to using it, perhaps some sort of cool down and making the number of gates very restricted.
Once you start though it would be hard to stop and then someone will, perhaps, mention the 'galactic hyperdrive' of old and why can't we have that and perhaps just zip to more or less anywhere (within some precision) for the cost of the drive.
And then that will become unfair for new players because its pricey..
And soon enough everyone can go everywhere for next to nothing.
Which all in all is a bit unlikely to be honest but I'm not sure I'd be happy taking the risk.
I'm even in two minds about micro-jumps to be honest and I've considered that a good idea in the past...

So that puts me in the 'no' camp by the way, in case that was unclear

 

[BurnyBurns]

Everything in the bubble is so close. A decent space ship can cover >2000LY per hour. I don't feel we need more instantanium.

I would like to see you do that in a combat fitted Vulture. Want to make a video out of it? Or does "decent" exclude those ships you'd be taking across the human bubble to participate in CZ?

Given how far away some of the permit sectors are, it's inevitable that we will either get jump gates, wormholes, or some kind of large boosts to range.

The sad thing is: Some people here have already been arguing that they don't want micro jumps. They are literally asking to stare at the screen 5-20 minutes traveling in supercruise in a straight line from one star in a system to another, depending on the distance, even in inhabited space.

If Frontier is to only listen to the people with that much tolerance for time wasting mechanics, suggesting improvements desired by those with less tolerance and/or a tighter time budget is entirely pointless.