NPCS using mods?

[Garand1987]

I'm glad to see the general attitude changing. Once upon a time, NPCs literally sat in place and did nothing but roll until you killed them. When Frontier patched that and actually made the NPCs fight back, the forum "make the game easier" squad rose quite a stir and for about a solid month the forums were filled with nothing but complaint threads made by like the same twenty people. Fortunately, Frontier did not cave that time.

Once upon a time, when engineering was first introduced, they DID implement NPCs with light engineering and made the game a little more challenging. Once again the forum "make the game easier" squad of like twenty people filled the forums with complaints and general toxicity. Unfortunately, Frontier caved to them that time.

It's refreshing to see someone that actually wants the NPCs to be a little more challenging.

Yeah I remember that, i think when they first introduced engineered NPC’s FDev mentioned that they removed engineered weapons and toned down the other upgrades because it was bugged making some nigh invincible NPC’s (not a billion of them but enough that FDev decided to ‘remove it pending investigation ) I think they’ve made a big improvement in this patch. Get tangled up with an engineered NPC now, or a wing, and they fly decently, they don’t strafe or anything, but they do well enough with standard flight menuvers, and they pack a little bit of a punch now I was out at a Nav yesterday doing a wing mission solo and came by some engineered ones. After making popcorn of some of the standard ones for a while, I was in a fight with this engineered one and it managed to get my shields low enough I boosted out to pop a SCB and a HS before swinging back in to finish it. Not so bad, I like it

 

[Arguendo]

Once upon a time, when engineering was first introduced, they DID implement NPCs with light engineering and made the game a little more challenging. Once again the forum "make the game easier" squad of like twenty people filled the forums with complaints and general toxicity. Unfortunately, Frontier caved to them that time.

FDev did exactly two things to the NPCs of 2.1:
- Removed all engineered weapons from NPCs, because they were borked to hell and back
- Removed all engineered modules from NPCs ranked below Master, forced Deadly and Elite NPCs to always have Engineered modules, and left the in-between ranks to be RNG engineered

At no time did the AI itself get touched after release of 2.1. That's straight from the lady who programs them. They were tweaked a bit during the Beta, but not after release.

It's refreshing to see someone that actually wants the NPCs to be a little more challenging.

I may have to go back to Bounty Hunting some day when hearing this. I haven't done that for so long I think they were still doing their spin-of-death when I did it last

 

[Hellakitty]

Do the NPC's still have gimballed PA's that can shoot at 90 degrees?

 

[Achilles7]

Sorry, but ROFL!
In the video that NPC misses alot! Actually about twice as often as hitting you. So you can take your fact elsewhere please.
It actually used to be a lot worse than that, and SJA has admitted that she may have been a bit naughty, to use her own words, on the railgun aiming. That was however adressed. Looking at your flying, it seems to me that you're pretty much doing the same thing over and over again (ie. rolling while pressing one lateral and/or one vertical thruster). After about three rounds of that your pattern gets easy to anticipate tbh. How about trying to actually be evasive?

[rolleyes] He's agreeing with you through the medium of irony! Troy? Remember to add this next time....[big grin]

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Once upon a time, when engineering was first introduced, they DID implement NPCs with light engineering and made the game a little more challenging. Once again the forum "make the game easier" squad of like twenty people filled the forums with complaints and general toxicity. Unfortunately, Frontier caved to them that time.

It was way more complex than that.

First, improved AI was introduced along with Engineers. In lot of cases NPC AI was so bad players lose to it all the time, even lower ranks. Adding engineered mods to NPC ships ended up with AI wiping floor with basically everyone. However it wasn't all - there was bug introduced which triggered when two or more players got into distance with engineered NPC ship - we got plasma multi cannons. Basically it was Galactica

Did it contribute to FD decision to remove all weapon mods and leave only some mods for higher levels? I don't think so. I think they realized they have to do it in stages. Granted, there was some misunderstanding in FD and SJA got worried her work will get axed. Positively though it turned out not to be the case and she returned last year with spring release.

Overall if you are casual player Competent and above NPC ship will beat your easily. Only issue was people with high end ships didn't had any challenge.

They have now.

p.s. also reminder that people Steam bombed ED because of more difficult AI.

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

Fdev make us grinds like a chinese sweatshop to get a decent ship capable of killing these engineered ships, and then give us 400cr as a reward!!
…

I think he meant 200K? i.e. 200,000 cr reward which isn't bad.
…

Yes the bounty was 200,000 cr.
Sorry, if that wasn't clear. I like to use k for 1000 and M for million.

 

[ErichZann]

Maybe time to put engineered npcs into the hazres and increase the payout for those?

 

[Arguendo]

[rolleyes] He's agreeing with you through the medium of irony! Troy? Remember to add this next time....[big grin]

It that's the case, it was some seriously well hidden irony! [where is it]

 

[Mephane]

Two thoughts:

* The old mantra <Jim Sterling voice>"but engineers are optional"</Jim Sterling voice> is now definitely dead.
* Oh boy am I not looking forward of suffering the various B.S. experimentals. I am talking anything from Target Lock Breaker (seriously, how is this even a thing *at all*), to the various shield-breaking effects designed to defeat PvP Cutters/Corvettes/Condas but hurt everyone else as well ("we just gave up balancing against overly massive shield stacking, let's just give them magical ways to bypass all those Megajoules").

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Two thoughts:

* The old mantra <Jim Sterling voice>"but engineers are optional"</Jim Sterling voice> is now definitely dead.
* Oh boy am I not looking forward of suffering the various B.S. experimentals. I am talking anything from Target Lock Breaker (seriously, how is this even a thing *at all*), to the various shield-breaking effects designed to defeat PvP Cutters/Corvettes/Condas but hurt everyone else as well ("we just gave up balancing against overly massive shield stacking, let's just give them magical ways to bypass all those Megajoules").

Well, as long as I can still leg it, it is optional

 

[Mephane]

Well, as long as I can still leg it, it is optional

There's even an experimental effect for mine launchers that causes an FSD reboot...

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

There's even an experimental effect for mine launchers that causes an FSD reboot...

Ohhh, if NPCs will get a hold of that one....that would be mega trolling.

 

[fruitbat]

I'm quite enjoying soloing the wing assassination missions. Finally a reason to fly my corvette. Still think the ai equipment for these missions could be pumped up a bit more though.

 

[yolomcbobbinz]

Im happy we have engineered npcs, just hope they dont get out of hand again

 

[Vasious]

Two thoughts:

* The old mantra <Jim Sterling voice>"but engineers are optional"</Jim Sterling voice> is now definitely dead.
* Oh boy am I not looking forward of suffering the various B.S. experimentals. I am talking anything from Target Lock Breaker (seriously, how is this even a thing *at all*), to the various shield-breaking effects designed to defeat PvP Cutters/Corvettes/Condas but hurt everyone else as well ("we just gave up balancing against overly massive shield stacking, let's just give them magical ways to bypass all those Megajoules").

There's even an experimental effect for mine launchers that causes an FSD reboot...

Are there not with High Level/rating Assassination and Wing Assassination Missions

That sounds pretty optional

 

[Kingtutuk]

Almost got toasted by an Elite Fed Dropship which had engineered weapons, and I was only doing the solo transport missions.

 

[WreckWren]

Please elaborate on the term "all the time".
The only "cheat" that is programmed into NPCs is the unlimited Multicannon ammunition. If they didn't have that, they would run away alot!
Other than that, NPCs should not do anything players can't do in their ships. So, please explain what you mean by cheating. I see plenty of people claiming that NPCs cheat, but I have yet to see hard evidence in the form of a video etc that confirms this, and the NPC programmer has expressively stated that they do not cheat.

Please educate yourself on the following:

unlimited chaff
not affected by SR
can scan through SR
unlimited ammo
unlimited SCBs
immune to chaff


For starters. Then we can get into the completely broken interdiction mechanics and the C&P implications of these.

 

[Aashenfox]

Please educate yourself on the following:

unlimited chaff
not affected by SR
can scan through SR
unlimited ammo
unlimited SCBs
immune to chaff


For starters. Then we can get into the completely broken interdiction mechanics and the C&P implications of these.

I love it when people start a post with 'please educate yourself...' then show their own lack thereof.

They do not have unlimited chaff, ARE affected by SR (but are uncannily good at aiming without a target), can NOT scan through SR (unless inside 600m), do NOT have unlimited ammo except MCs, do NOT have unlimited SCBs and are NOT immune to chaff.

 

[Troy_McClure]

It that's the case, it was some seriously well hidden irony! [where is it]

Wow - this place is fraught with confusion & danger![where is it] My intention was to show how a really simple manoeuvre could avoid NPC rails from close proximity.

For the record, the vid was taken when rail guns were at their most accurate (before the slight nerf by SJA you alluded to) & when the debug camera was the option for the external view of our ships - ergo, I had no other option with my evasion inputs other than to set the roll in place & then let my speed reduce to max thruster level (as boost diminished) that is why I was caught by the enemy ships.

 

[Achilles7]

Wow - this place is fraught with confusion & danger![where is it] My intention was to show how a really simple manoeuvre could avoid NPC rails from close proximity.

For the record, the vid was taken when rail guns were at their most accurate (before the slight nerf by SJA you alluded to) & when the debug camera was the option for the external view of our ships - ergo, I had no other option with my evasion inputs other than to set the roll in place & then let my speed reduce to max thruster level (as boost diminished) that is why I was caught by the enemy ships.

Hehehe

Here is the 'hard evidence' vid to prove my point:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFvv2IhIxr4


EDIT: Ahhh 'wrong video - awkward!

It that's the case, it was some seriously well hidden irony!

No it isn't!

Hint 1: Vid of the exact opposite of purported statement, "Here is the hard evidence..."; using as you mention, a basic barrel roll to evade the majority of rail shots; again as you say, optimum evasion techniques will involve changing the patterns & FA-OFF boost thrusting (random lateral/vertical).

Hint 2: (probably added for the benefit of random morons) 'EDIT' at the end!

[blah]...I despair!

Edit: What is going on with the cut & paste around here?
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