Oh, yeah... forgot about that
Observed Yamiks and his combat stream
- Thread starter Shiro Akai
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Engineers in a nutshell.
The only time I fancy braving open is when I'm in my "Getaway" Courier.
To be honest, I would personally prefer if shield cell banks, shield boosters, Guardian shield reinforcements, and hull reinforcements had never been implemented - along with all engineering being "sidegrades" which meant you would never be able to "even out" your resistances - you would always have some kind of real weakness - the same for weapons, gaining extra damage should have an actual downside that matters in all instances for one thing.
PvP is a pointless and hopelessly imbalanced activity that makes no sense, serves no purpose, drags on forever and is mostly decided by who is willing to grind the most. And even then it doesnt matter as you can only die when you insist on not avoiding it. PvP is to ED what 'cabbage football' is to Skyrim.
To describe ED combat:
Time-to-kill - SUPER LONG (comparing to even the most insane darksouls boses or any other game opponents)
Difficulty - ENORMOUS (the engineering is MANDATORY, yet learning what needs to be done is a massive task, then GRINDING it all also takes a lot of time and then learning to fly .....that takes the longest)
Fun aspect - Above average (yes it's super exciting to kill your first thargoid & so on, learning how to dodge & weave against players, but the skill celling is soo large and it takes soo much effort to learn everything, it's not fun for newcommers)
Conclusion : combat in ED is my favorite thing, but it takes SO MUCH to learn it, then it takes so much to kill anything...well from outside it sure looks boring I agree, but those RARE yet super tense moments make it sometimes worth doing (for me).... but time to kill because of shield booster INBALANCE (and others) causes big issues
Time-to-kill - SUPER LONG (comparing to even the most insane darksouls boses or any other game opponents)
Difficulty - ENORMOUS (the engineering is MANDATORY, yet learning what needs to be done is a massive task, then GRINDING it all also takes a lot of time and then learning to fly .....that takes the longest)
Fun aspect - Above average (yes it's super exciting to kill your first thargoid & so on, learning how to dodge & weave against players, but the skill celling is soo large and it takes soo much effort to learn everything, it's not fun for newcommers)
Conclusion : combat in ED is my favorite thing, but it takes SO MUCH to learn it, then it takes so much to kill anything...well from outside it sure looks boring I agree, but those RARE yet super tense moments make it sometimes worth doing (for me).... but time to kill because of shield booster INBALANCE (and others) causes big issues
I guess I'm kinda a veteran now and I can tell you straight up this is not how it works.
Wing fights will last that long depending on if people come back or not. 1v1's? Unlikely unless both cmdrs have a lot of synth.
As for Connie's turning like Eagles... Do some basic extrapolation... Imagine now, how fast an Eagle can pitch and you'll start to see the lure.
NEVER measure general PvP combat by the standards of large ships. That will make it seem dull and like it takes ages. A large ship is there in PvP mostly just to hold the instance, in a serious fight they don't get to leverage thier DPS in the same way as some of the mediums.
As for control input, I feel like M&Kb is a bit lazy, however the general rule of thumb is that a poor craftsman blames his tools. People can be ish hot PvPers with a console pad for goodness sake, its just preference.
If you didnt read this IN HIS VOICE youre no fan.
I notice a lot of people moaning about "meta" builds but engineering magnifies this problem.
If you could just throw together a ship and then go and see how it does, people could afford to get more creative with their builds and we might see proper "tactical" combat - where, for example, one person would be trying to get close to blast their opponent with frags while the opponent would be doing their best to maintain distance and using long-range rails.
Trouble is, engineering means you need to put a lot of effort into modding weapons.
If your flying death-machine of choice is, say, a Challenger then that's 7 weapons that need G5 modding.
When faced with the prospect of G5 engineering 7 weapons, it's much easier to just copy a loadout that's known to work well rather than experimenting on something unique... and possibly garbage.
And then, of course, once you know it's likely you're going to be attacked by "meta" weapons, you can engineer your armour/shields/boosters to minimise the damage caused by those particular weapons.
Personally, I just can't be Arxed with it all.
I just fit most of my ships with lasers & MCs and hope for the best.
Sometimes it works out okay, sometimes it doesn't.
I love combat not because I love obliterating others. I love combat because it stretches and hones my maneuvering abilities.
Yeah TTK is too long and engineering is coma inducing. However, having to predict what a human Commander will do next, i.e.boosting, vector, is really fun for me. Controlling a ship well. That's what combat has taught me. One cannot experience the full extent of the flight model with npcs.
Yeah TTK is too long and engineering is coma inducing. However, having to predict what a human Commander will do next, i.e.boosting, vector, is really fun for me. Controlling a ship well. That's what combat has taught me. One cannot experience the full extent of the flight model with npcs.
I need to start streaming, cos that doesn't sound representative of the pvp I experience. Granted, I don't interdict numpties, and I don't GET interdicted by numpties as a rule, but I still manage to get a 'quality' fight when I go looking for one.
And remember, none of us serious pvpers want these crazy defense numbers. This was done so explorers and traders could play in open and have a chance to escape a gank. As such it can never be turned around now, we are doomed to longer than necessary pvp fights, as it's usually evident who will win after 4 minutes. The most painful part of all of this is that the same traders and explorers are the ones that say open is cancer, because of engineered death boats, when the engineering was designed to support THEM and they don't even realise it, or are unwilling to use it, while we suffer the majority of the consequences.
Look out for my streams in a few months
Evening out resistances would be a perfect application of engineering. The problem really is not that you can even them out, but on which level you can do it. I mean, a normal shield has 50% explosive, 40% kinetic and -20% thermal resist. I'd see nothing wrong with being able to move everything to be 25% resist. Sure, your ship then can resist lasers a bit better. But other weapons, which also are frequently used, would kill the shields much faster.
It would be a matter of preference and actually would matter most in duels. If you know that your enemy has a preference for lasers, push your thermal resist. If you know that your enemy will bring an all-dakka FGS, better slot your kinetic resist shields.
For random PvP encounters, it'd be a bit of rock-paper-scissors, what does he bring, how is your ship set up? And for PvE it matters little, as NPCs tend to bring and use all kinds of weapons.
Only as you can even out ALL resists at over 60% is where the real problems start. This is what would need to be addressed.
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PvP already is 100% rock paper scissors, and that's why I will continue to argue against anyone who claims that balance is terrible in this game, it really isn't. Whatever you got killed by, you can build a ship that will give you an advantage in the rematch if you know what you are doing.
Example...
All gimballed multicannons is the easiest loadout to be effective with, so the PA meta was born to outdps it and that's how it works, provided you can hit with said PAs, you will always outdps a gimballed multicannon user. Then phasing hitscan builds came along to counter PA meta, now we're seeing the counter to the phasing builds in the form of long range beam builds (this is emerging now, please don't ask, I can't be bothered to explain how it works), and guess what...the counter is back to the beginning, the gimballed multicannons are the best counter to the death star builds. Only a well designed game provides this, and I'm happy to argue with anyone about it. Some of the special effects are silly, premium ammo is completely stupid, but apart from those few things, pvp in this game is in a decent place at the top level.
Reverski doesn't really have a hard counter except force shells, and stands out as a minor and cancerous exceptoin to this.
Example...
All gimballed multicannons is the easiest loadout to be effective with, so the PA meta was born to outdps it and that's how it works, provided you can hit with said PAs, you will always outdps a gimballed multicannon user. Then phasing hitscan builds came along to counter PA meta, now we're seeing the counter to the phasing builds in the form of long range beam builds (this is emerging now, please don't ask, I can't be bothered to explain how it works), and guess what...the counter is back to the beginning, the gimballed multicannons are the best counter to the death star builds. Only a well designed game provides this, and I'm happy to argue with anyone about it. Some of the special effects are silly, premium ammo is completely stupid, but apart from those few things, pvp in this game is in a decent place at the top level.
Reverski doesn't really have a hard counter except force shells, and stands out as a minor and cancerous exceptoin to this.