Oculus 0.7 SDK update

[jabokai]

Hi Jabokai,

Don't worry I can put your mind at rest. The issues were serious technical issues and we would love to support any and every VR studio we can.

Thank you for the unequivocal response! So not like you!

I think this kind of approach is important for VR's early success as a whole. It will be a success, in time, no matter what happens but I feel that treating the devices as peripherals, and not platforms, will speed that success along.

 

[Juanlo]

Thanks for the honest explanation Zac. I want to be sure to understand it correctly: Do you mean that, unless Oculus resolves/fixes/changes/implements something on their SDK, Frontier will not be able to integrate future Oculus SDK updates?

 

[Andovar]

Personally, I'm not worried. I just want VR compatibility.
Given their successful demo of the HTC vive at EGX (which I believe was essentially the consumer version), I'm happy to know that that's available should the rift not pan out for technical reasons.

of course, having more than one choice would still be nice.

 

[Dierdra Vaal]

We hope a future version of their software can be made to work and we are continuing to work with them on this.

Am I understanding this to mean that you guys are not willing to adapt your engine to work with the Oculus SDK? All other major game engines seem to make this work just fine, it would be disappointing if Frontier is unwilling to make the necessary changes to the engine powering Elite. Especially because I only play Elite with my Rift. Right now I'm not updating from SDK 0.6 so I can still play but I cannot remain on 0.6 forever. If you guys drop Oculus support, I'll have to drop Elite as a game.

Luckily Eve Valkyrie uses an engine that works with the Rift just fine.

 

[Dante80]

Speaking completely frank to you, it is really important that if there is a message to go out which cause some friction then it is always best to do it openly, honestly and as quickly as possible.

This thread itself is an example of that.

I understand that there are some concerns but I can put everyones mind at rest that the issues faced with Oculus are completely technical. both the Oculus team and the development team have worked hard to try and find a solution but sadly it has not been possible. It's something that the team would like to support in the future.

Thanks for the prompt answer. Remain excellent!

 

[drkaii]

Thanks! Quick Q: does Elite simply "work" with 0.6 or does it actually use 0.6?

 

[r00x]

I understand that there are some concerns but I can put everyones mind at rest that the issues faced with Oculus are completely technical. both the Oculus team and the development team have worked hard to try and find a solution but sadly it has not been possible. It's something that the team would like to support in the future.

Thanks for this thread! I *only* play Elite in VR (it's just that awesome in VR) so have three questions if I may:

1) The language you're using implies that support for Oculus, while entirely technical, is not likely to change going forward. As in, fundamental incompatibility. Is that the case? For absolute clarity, is this not an issue you expect will be fixed by SDK 0.8, 0.9 or even 1.0, but a fundamental break in compatibility that could only be resolved by significant changes on one or both sides (with nothing in the pipeline for either)?

2) Bearing (1) in mind, can you honestly say players who want to play Elite in VR can consider an Oculus Rift when it releases next year? Not a political question, a purely technical, we-want-to-play-the-game question: if we want Elite VR but were leaning towards the Rift, is it wise to go for the Vive? I plan to get both because I'm a total magpie for these gadgets but if I were only in a position to choose one, I'd want to make damned sure it was the one that worked with Elite!


3) I think I speak for many of us (especially those of us who dev) when I say that it would be fascinating to hear a little detail about the technical issues in question. I would read the crap out of a write-up into the challenges you guys are facing with this. I also think, should there be any grumpy players out there, it would mollify them a little to get an impression of the magnitude of the task at hand.

 

[Karnath]

Appreciate the update Zac, it was was also good to see you guys follow up on the original announcement even if the news wasn't the one most was hoping for

 

[grodenglaive]

Thanks for this thread! I *only* play Elite in VR (it's just that awesome in VR) so have three questions if I may:

1) The language you're using implies that support for Oculus, while entirely technical, is not likely to change going forward. As in, fundamental incompatibility. Is that the case? For absolute clarity, is this not an issue you expect will be fixed by SDK 0.8, 0.9 or even 1.0, but a fundamental break in compatibility that could only be resolved by significant changes on one or both sides (with nothing in the pipeline for either)?

2) Bearing (1) in mind, can you honestly say players who want to play Elite in VR can consider an Oculus Rift when it releases next year? Not a political question, a purely technical, we-want-to-play-the-game question: if we want Elite VR but were leaning towards the Rift, is it wise to go for the Vive? I plan to get both because I'm a total magpie for these gadgets but if I were only in a position to choose one, I'd want to make damned sure it was the one that worked with Elite!


3) I think I speak for many of us (especially those of us who dev) when I say that it would be fascinating to hear a little detail about the technical issues in question. I would read the crap out of a write-up into the challenges you guys are facing with this. I also think, should there be any grumpy players out there, it would mollify them a little to get an impression of the magnitude of the task at hand.

It looks to me that if FD and Oculus can't get ED to work with 0.7, then yes, it would be up to Oculus to make changes for 0.8 so that it can work... and they should do that before the VIVE goes on sale. I'm sure Oculus is aware that they would be losing considerable sales volume to the VIVE without such a flagship game.

 

[Dweezil_Moon]

Thanks a lot for the answer Zac. I think it speaks for your VR implementation in Elite that so many people refuse to play it in 2D ever again. It *REALLY* is that good!.

By the way, for those who upgraded to Win10 or want to keep both 1) playing elite in VR and 2) use the latest Oculus drivers : Here is a way to switch between runtimes on the fly

 

[kreegr]

This bums me out to no end to hear this news; I just got a DK2 a few weeks ago and was hoping for the level of support for future versions of the Oculus runtime to improve… and now it looks like that's in jeopardy.

I mean, granted I'm okay now that I've downgraded from Windows 10 down to 8.1, and I'm okay with running the 0.6-beta runtime for now, but… man, this takes the wind out of my sails.

 

[q1w2e3]

What is the point of building hype on supporting the Vive when they too are moving away from extended mode to Direct Driver mode? It's only a matter of time before the Vive support gets axed also int hat case. If there is a problem with your engine supporting these direct driver modes just say so. Can you give more specific technical details?

 

[StuartGT]

Thanks! Quick Q: does Elite simply "work" with 0.6 or does it actually use 0.6?

Great question for clarification, as newsletter 77 stated that SDK 0.6 was incompatible with ED too.

If ED had SDK 0.6 support/features, runtime 0.7 would work for us, as each runtime is compatible with the prior SDK version.

I suspect Zac's statement should really be "Elite: Dangerous 1.4 does continue to work with Oculus Runtimes 0.5 and 0.6, but we continue to ask that players do not upgrade their Oculus Runtime beyond 0.6 if they want to continue to play Elite: Dangerous".

Edit: a fair few of the /r/Oculus Redditors are guessing that the issue lies with Cobra's rendering pipeline, theorising that it doesn't play by the book with the D3D buffers - and cite gpu-driver-level AA not working as tangential proof of this. The recent Oculus SDKs require Direct Mode to work, which is buggy as hell in ED using 0.5/0.6 runtimes.

The Vive SDK meanwhile uses Extended mode. How long for?

Another statement clarifying these details would clear things up, even if it's "Direct Mode doesn't work due to our custom engine doing 'render-thingy' in D3D which their SDKs don't like. Either Oculus re-enables Extended mode, adds compatibility for 'render-thingy', or we're forced to recode our engine and remove/rewrite 'render-thingy' (thereby fixing gpu-driver-level AA as a bonus) which'll take, say, 6 months. We'll keep you posted."

 

[cherbert]

How embarrassing for Oculus. I guess its HTC for me then. One lost customer Oculus.

This announcement seems strangely worded. Its almost like a prelude to saying we are no longer supporting Oculus. They could have toned it down and said we are still working closely with Oculus and hope to have it working by 1.0. But it just seems there is a tone that Frontier are unhappy with their relationship with Oculus.

The post even ends by rubbing it even more and mentioning their full support for Steam and Vive.

Might as well have said.. "Hey guys, go buy one of these instead. They are much better!"

Very odd.

 

[Evenios]

Seems like an issue that Oculus seriously needs to look into, if a game like Elite which was designed from the ground up i think for VR (being one of the backers of Oculus i think?) then it seems oculus needs to get its ducks in a row to better make sure its sdk works as well as possible. Otherwise more issues like this will pop up. and other companies may not be so willing to invest the time and effort to get such a device to work. I think the Rift is interesting and im glad This game is tryng to support it. but i think VR is a long way from still being what it could be. Maybe with the upcoming 1.0 version things will work better. We'll see...lets hope in future updates this will be fixed! bad Oculus!

 

[Valkir]

Frontier should respond to the thread on the Oculus subreddit that is covering this, it's kinda blown up. Lots of rumors already starting on there, rumors that need addressing.

 

[phoenixdigital]

I'd love to hear a more technical explanation of the issue if at all possible?

 

[Jpotter]

From the Oculus change log for 0.7 - I'm guessing this is the relevant issue at hand, there is other info in more detail if those interested want to read here:

https://developer.oculus.com/blog/upcoming-oculus-pc-sdk-0-7-compatibility-changes/

From the tl;dr at the top of that page:

0.7 of the Oculus PC SDK will launch on August 20th, and introduces architecture changes that bring increased stability, performance, and a new ‘Direct Driver Mode’ developed in collaboration with NVIDIA and AMD. However, as a result of these updates, the 0.7 runtime won’t support applications built with 0.5 or earlier, including all content built with Unity 4.x.

So ED was built with the earlier version and unless ED is rebuilt/repackaged with the correct runtime (and who knows the changes required for ED to support that) - since Oculus is dropping support in 0.7 for earlier versions, so is ED. Sorry to hear it, but working in software dev.... totally understand. They probably have multiple ongoing in-dev projects using the same thing and 'swapping it out' isn't easy.

 

[SlackR]

Sorry but to be brutally honest it smells bit fishy to make such a statement which appears to squarely put the blame on Oculus that 0.7 sdk cannot be made to work when Elite worked fine up until 0.6 and each iteration of the sdk has been a progressive upgrade in terms of features etc. Look at Project Cars to see what I mean. Frontier should just be frank and honest, either they are ditching Oculus support or they just do not wish to allocate time to recode for the sdk update. If it is ditching Oculus, so be it and tell us now. However delaying updating the Elite code makes no sense purely because the necessary changes cannot be bypassed just by waiting for sdk 1.0, it will be even more work by then.

To be fair to the Dev's the issues with direct mode have been around since day one. The Rift and the cobra engine just havent played nicely for some reason. Thats not to say there wont be a "timed" exculsive like there was with the xbox, but I think thats a seperate issue.

 

[Several]

Hi Zac, thanks for the update.

Don't mind the blown up reddit thread, it seems people like to have sth to dramatize over, just stay relaxed with us. I'd rather have this information from you that none.