Alpha phase 1, the npc's were at the level we're at now. Overpowered. IIRC they weren't an overwhelming force as such, just high level. Phase 2, the levels of the npc's were toned down to the point where they were easy enough to kill, but a mission could still take some time. It seems that the npc's have been reverted to Phase 1. I'm hoping it's just a bug/oversight because of a rushed release.
Odyssey Combat missions too hard? (Threat 4)
- Thread starter Thargon
- Start date
Alpha phase 1, the npc's were at the level we're at now. Overpowered. IIRC they weren't an overwhelming force as such, just high level. Phase 2, the levels of the npc's were toned down to the point where they were easy enough to kill, but a mission could still take some time. It seems that the npc's have been reverted to Phase 1. I'm hoping it's just a bug/oversight because of a rushed release.
The combat definitely feels too difficult - I'd like to give stealth a go but each time you use the overload gun it drains something like 30% of your power.
That seems like way too much, so I end up parking my srv nearby so I can keep running back to it and charging up, works as a backup getaway vehicle too.
The thing I really can't understand is why using my SRVs weapons, at a powered down abandoned settlement results in a 100cr fine which then results in all the turrets and drones being hostile and shooting to kill when I restore the power. Farce.
That seems like way too much, so I end up parking my srv nearby so I can keep running back to it and charging up, works as a backup getaway vehicle too.
The thing I really can't understand is why using my SRVs weapons, at a powered down abandoned settlement results in a 100cr fine which then results in all the turrets and drones being hostile and shooting to kill when I restore the power. Farce.
I've been playing ED for a long time so I know what to expect (more or less). And even I didn't expect some things.
I can't imagine how new players must feel trying to do their very first missions... it must be frustrating as heck.
My Mercenary rank is defenseless but it doesn't prevent the game from sending 9-12 scavengers on me and if I take too much time to kill them ANOTHER dropship arrives with 6-7 more of them.
At this point it's just silly.
FDev claimed many times that NPCs don't have a hive mind but they very obviously DO. It's either a bug or... you know... a lie?
And if you check what you need for upgrading your equipment (not even to level 5)... and the fact that engineering modules can't be removed.
It's not motivating at all.
I can't imagine how new players must feel trying to do their very first missions... it must be frustrating as heck.
My Mercenary rank is defenseless but it doesn't prevent the game from sending 9-12 scavengers on me and if I take too much time to kill them ANOTHER dropship arrives with 6-7 more of them.
At this point it's just silly.
FDev claimed many times that NPCs don't have a hive mind but they very obviously DO. It's either a bug or... you know... a lie?
And if you check what you need for upgrading your equipment (not even to level 5)... and the fact that engineering modules can't be removed.
It's not motivating at all.
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dumb fire missiles and crash sites/IMs are even better, atleast in alpha i did settlement massacre, was sure id be fined, and likely would now, most enemies should be the mission related so scan a moon and ready the rounds.
Biggest issue for me are all the grenades. Don't know if they have unlimited ammo or not. But even if it's limited, 10 scavengers throw 20 grenades at you... Generally grenades are good, otherwise I would be in cover all the time. But maybe they should be limited to higher ranks?
The most difficult are the missions in which you have to steal something without raising an alarm. Out of 20 such missions, I managed to complete only one. NPCs see everything , is quite difficult to go unnoticed. And when you have 10 guards against you + the other workers also armed, it is almost impossible to do anything.
Yesterday, I had extreme fun clearing 11 scavengers in threat 5. But then grade 3 Maverick, grade 3 Tormentor and grade 4 Executor.
How it went:
1. Go on a roof of a building and scan as much targets as possible.
2. Relocate to other roof that you won't be in the middle of the ants' nest.
3. Wait victim to stop moving - and fire the kill shot. Yes Executor one shot unshielded targets.
4. While the projectile still flies you can take cover or even relocate. The NPCs will be alerted and rise shields but if they do not see you everything goes to normal in 1-2 min and you can rinse repeat.
When the numbers get low you can head charge them.
Note: Be sure to identify enemy sharpshooters ASAP. They are using Exacutor as well and can kill you with 3 shots even at extreme ranges if you stop changing your trajectory for 2-3 sec. They are aim bots in essence and will hit you even at max distance which is around 200m mark.
How it went:
1. Go on a roof of a building and scan as much targets as possible.
2. Relocate to other roof that you won't be in the middle of the ants' nest.
3. Wait victim to stop moving - and fire the kill shot. Yes Executor one shot unshielded targets.
4. While the projectile still flies you can take cover or even relocate. The NPCs will be alerted and rise shields but if they do not see you everything goes to normal in 1-2 min and you can rinse repeat.
When the numbers get low you can head charge them.
Note: Be sure to identify enemy sharpshooters ASAP. They are using Exacutor as well and can kill you with 3 shots even at extreme ranges if you stop changing your trajectory for 2-3 sec. They are aim bots in essence and will hit you even at max distance which is around 200m mark.
This is all good advice. I did consider taking the srv once, but didn't think it would be capable (it would be suspectible to grenade spam). I tried shooting the infantry from my ship but I think that obviously won't work (it's probably not in the simulation).
The tip about stairs could work, esp with the rocket launcher. I've not yet tried the laser rifles, I assumed they would be kinda weak but if good vs shields, then what, swap to kinetic?
Yeah I usually use the rooftop tactic, but they converge so fast, you maybe have time to take out 1 target before they swamp you. I then try running away and hiding for a bit.
So I took on another T2 settlement salvage mission and this time I used the SRV to knock out 2 of the 8 that were there and tried taking on the other 6 on foot. I had finally found a G2 Dominator and made a G2 laser rifle. That combo with the basic AR50 was actually working for me. The upgraded laser was dropping their shields finally and stairs are for sure a good way to choke them up. Doubt I could have kept it up with too many more right now but even G2 gear makes a difference. I don't think that should be like that because at the moment upgrades really seem important to make combat accessible. Still now that I can survive a little I'm starting to get the hang of it more. Even fought off a few in my G1 Maverick death-suit with just the Executioner and the pistol now.
Deleted member 115407
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Whittle them down with stealth kills before you go in guns blazing, and use vertical movement and displacement to your advantage.
If you stand still and stay in their line of sight and detection, you're a dead man.
Be a scary ninja.
If you stand still and stay in their line of sight and detection, you're a dead man.
Be a scary ninja.
Low threat missions are overtuned. People who keep patronisingly telling people how to play the game are missing the point, it's not so much it's impossible or we can't do it-- it's more that it simply feels too harsh considering these are supposed to be the EASIEST missions available.
The lowest rank missions should not require upgarded gear to finish, because by their nature you should be able to jump right in (because they ain't going to design a game where a player can't or exerts too much effort in ANY combat missions until they spend hours and hours getting upgrades).
All of your tactics and suggestions absolutely apply to medium or high rank missions, but not the lowest possible which is Threat 2. They should add Threat 1 for a start, but Threat 2 is still a bit too harsh. I mean if people want challenge that's why that Threat rank goes up to much higher levels.
Oh and if it's a salvage mission, sometimes there is no cover at all-- yet 4-5 mobs just jump on you instantly and somehow you're supposed to evade them so your shield can recharge.
No.
A big issue is just the cheap design of engagements. There shouldn't be more than about 3-4 on you at a time, which can be achieved by lowering the aggro radius so the entire base doesn't converge on you instantly. Another option is to have a timer so the next wave appears only after so much time, or after you've killed the first group.
This is not Splinter Cell either, so stealth should be an option not a requirement. Especially on the easiest missions. Also the easiest missions shouldn't strongly emphasise the need for cheap tactics like fighting on roofs where AI always fails.
Yep, the Robby Rocket Booster was a mistake in my opinion, because now they have to balance combat around pogo-stick gameplay and how easy the AI is to trick with verticality. Why in recent years does every game have to have a rocket transformer zoom boom? So no one can enjoy a classic tense fire fight actually on the ground, and be cornered and that kind of thing?
The lowest rank missions should not require upgarded gear to finish, because by their nature you should be able to jump right in (because they ain't going to design a game where a player can't or exerts too much effort in ANY combat missions until they spend hours and hours getting upgrades).
All of your tactics and suggestions absolutely apply to medium or high rank missions, but not the lowest possible which is Threat 2. They should add Threat 1 for a start, but Threat 2 is still a bit too harsh. I mean if people want challenge that's why that Threat rank goes up to much higher levels.
Oh and if it's a salvage mission, sometimes there is no cover at all-- yet 4-5 mobs just jump on you instantly and somehow you're supposed to evade them so your shield can recharge.
No.
A big issue is just the cheap design of engagements. There shouldn't be more than about 3-4 on you at a time, which can be achieved by lowering the aggro radius so the entire base doesn't converge on you instantly. Another option is to have a timer so the next wave appears only after so much time, or after you've killed the first group.
This is not Splinter Cell either, so stealth should be an option not a requirement. Especially on the easiest missions. Also the easiest missions shouldn't strongly emphasise the need for cheap tactics like fighting on roofs where AI always fails.
Yep, the Robby Rocket Booster was a mistake in my opinion, because now they have to balance combat around pogo-stick gameplay and how easy the AI is to trick with verticality. Why in recent years does every game have to have a rocket transformer zoom boom? So no one can enjoy a classic tense fire fight actually on the ground, and be cornered and that kind of thing?
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If there's anything that Frontier do not do well, it's missions. I'd prefer a Carlsberg mission giver. Compare and contrast, for example, the 90s Elite version for PC - then take a look at the missions for ships at star ports. If there's any difference, it's that the 90s version allowed you to haggle and barter and do other things regarding missions. Other than almost 30 years difference in hardware and software capabilities, there's not a lot else involved.
The problem with their missions is that it's either all or nothing, or that's how I feel with Odyssey. Variation seems to be thin on the ground. I'd expect to see things in their code like "const int NUM_GUARDS=10", for example.
As more of an explorer, I'd like to see a more graded approach to missions, from TL 0 to 6; where risk vs. reward pays off. I'd happily take several TL 0 missions (guess you can't do that for combat) for much less money and rewards, however it seems much less adapted to that. TBH honest I just want to explore stuff, fix stuff, find and return stuff in the darkness and quietness of space, but I can't because of the number of goons willing to risk their lives for a hair dryer motor that for some reason they're willing to die for.
If missions had a wider spread of grades and risks it would do (at least) 2 things:
How and why they don't incorporate this I don't know; I guess it's that 99% of players are happy to go around shooting stuff.
The problem with their missions is that it's either all or nothing, or that's how I feel with Odyssey. Variation seems to be thin on the ground. I'd expect to see things in their code like "const int NUM_GUARDS=10", for example.
As more of an explorer, I'd like to see a more graded approach to missions, from TL 0 to 6; where risk vs. reward pays off. I'd happily take several TL 0 missions (guess you can't do that for combat) for much less money and rewards, however it seems much less adapted to that. TBH honest I just want to explore stuff, fix stuff, find and return stuff in the darkness and quietness of space, but I can't because of the number of goons willing to risk their lives for a hair dryer motor that for some reason they're willing to die for.
If missions had a wider spread of grades and risks it would do (at least) 2 things:
- Enable players to start 'at the bottom', gain the skills and confidence to work there way up to a level that gives them a satisfying level of game play; and
- Enable players that don't want pew-pew to enjoy the view.
How and why they don't incorporate this I don't know; I guess it's that 99% of players are happy to go around shooting stuff.
They could make it FAR FAR more interesting simply by NOT dropping them on you every time and with large variance in when they arrive. Trigger some on arrival, some after X seconds at the site, some on discovery of the loot for the mission. Imagine how you feel in an abandoned base trying to locate this thing all the while wondering IF some raiders are dropping in. That is actually suspenseful. It also allows some successes not based on fighting it out. There is a touch of it now but they seem to lean heavily on nearly always dropping in raiders but I do like that aspect of keeping my ears open for that snap of a ship arriving. If it only happened 1 out of 4 times and really varied as to when then it's actually more nerve-wracking. Don't go the way of cargo missions with a system that screams 'minimal effort script' where 3 to 6 Anacondas interdict in serial succession and we all know it's coming each and every run.
Also, if I'm running salvage for the local criminal faction to salvage stuff out of a downed sat, instead of being the same freaking anarchy's guys at the sat how about a neighboring faction's guys? Hell even do that on other non-criminal faction's missions, might add a dimension to have to decide if you are willing to smoke them and crash your rep to get it done.
Also, if I'm running salvage for the local criminal faction to salvage stuff out of a downed sat, instead of being the same freaking anarchy's guys at the sat how about a neighboring faction's guys? Hell even do that on other non-criminal faction's missions, might add a dimension to have to decide if you are willing to smoke them and crash your rep to get it done.
With the server difficulties on the weekend, I unintentionally relogged the same Threat 3 power up mission multiple times.
Most of the time it was about 7 scavengers, a low of 4, and then 7 scavengers plus a dropship adding another 7. (The SRV contact list tells you what you are up against.) (I did another Threat 3 where no scavengers showed up.)
With G1 equipment, I took on 7 scavengers in the alpha; you just need to be extremely patient. If it’s 14, I’d just relog. (I now have a G3 Dominator with night vision as well as a G3 plasma shotgun, so I might be in a position to be more aggressive, but 14 is still a bit much.) If you relog, all the loot disappears, but you can at least finish the mission.
Unless there’s some way of controlling whether they get reinforcements, the 14+ scavenger situation is too much. (I haven’t outfitted my ship with missiles, so not sure how much that helps.)
Most of the time it was about 7 scavengers, a low of 4, and then 7 scavengers plus a dropship adding another 7. (The SRV contact list tells you what you are up against.) (I did another Threat 3 where no scavengers showed up.)
With G1 equipment, I took on 7 scavengers in the alpha; you just need to be extremely patient. If it’s 14, I’d just relog. (I now have a G3 Dominator with night vision as well as a G3 plasma shotgun, so I might be in a position to be more aggressive, but 14 is still a bit much.) If you relog, all the loot disappears, but you can at least finish the mission.
Unless there’s some way of controlling whether they get reinforcements, the 14+ scavenger situation is too much. (I haven’t outfitted my ship with missiles, so not sure how much that helps.)
The only thing I've not done yet is arm my ship with ship-to-ship missiles in order to deal with guards on the ground. Several folk here have suggested it and I'm thinking of doing it just to save time and do more missions. That makes missions inherently broke in the first place IMO.
It says a lot about missions if our go-to method of dealing with them is to re-log (like you I do this too when the D12 gives me a 12) and launch ballistic air-strikes against ground troops lol. It's a dirty job, but someone's got to do it.
A long time ago there were two combat issues versus playing with NPCs versus live players. They are a quantum leap from each other. Maybe Odyssey was designed to improve player combat skills on foot to eventually go to Open mode and winning some engagements. Just an idea.
Meanwhile keyboard and mouse works much better than a HOTAS. I'll remember getting Elite status in Frontier: First encounters back in 1995. We'll see.
Meanwhile keyboard and mouse works much better than a HOTAS. I'll remember getting Elite status in Frontier: First encounters back in 1995. We'll see.
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Typical fight is, I see a target, I use manticore executioner to take down their shields ( often in two shots ) then switch to the AR-50, while I'm doing that they run for cover, I chase to try and kill them before their shields regen, if I'm lucky I manage it, but while I'm doing that one or more other NPCs have now started attacking me, I can't do anything to them because now the AR-50 is not out of ammo from kill bullet-sponge #1, so I have a choice of trying to reload and run away or switch back to the executioner, which only has one round left, that's basically it - by this time my shields are already gone and I'm dead within a few seconds, regardless of if I try and run ( and get shot in the back ) or fight, with one round against two targets with their shields up - I'm dead either way. This is assuming I've lived that long because the other thing that happens is while you fight one NPC another one will throw a grenade at you.
The AI is good, you do get flanked, they do throw grenades to force you out of cover - some base layouts allow for a lot of roof running - some do not and have stairs so NPC will come up and get you.
Plus some bases seem to have no ammo boxes anywhere - so if there too many NPC's you'll just run out of ammo before you run out of targets.
Maybe I'm just old, back in the day I completed Quake III Arena on nightmare mode - now I can't last ten minutes against a bunch of space pirates. In my defence, the AI has got better but frame rates are a lot worse!!
The AI is good, you do get flanked, they do throw grenades to force you out of cover - some base layouts allow for a lot of roof running - some do not and have stairs so NPC will come up and get you.
Plus some bases seem to have no ammo boxes anywhere - so if there too many NPC's you'll just run out of ammo before you run out of targets.
Maybe I'm just old, back in the day I completed Quake III Arena on nightmare mode - now I can't last ten minutes against a bunch of space pirates. In my defence, the AI has got better but frame rates are a lot worse!!
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every base has ammo boxes, you just need to find them.
What you have to do is realize that "low threat" dosnt mean "easy" it means that the enemy is of low threat comparativly to other enemys later down the road
the Idea is to work your way up with cargo missions first, get some resources that way, maybe even steal some.
And in combat, move. use roofs, use your own grenade, and if the enemy gets to tight, use doors and chockepoints to kill them one by one
If you see an enemy Reading a grenade(or hear him) try to pop his shield ASAP because he will then drop the grenade and either deactiave surounding shields or destroy them themself.
Combat on ship wasnt Easy either, even on low threat you would die if you didnt play smart, if you used basic early game ships. this is the same
I have yet to finish a singe on-foot mission for 3 days. The main reason for this is that I havent been playing them and have been trying to make money in space, but I did notice a couple things and hope to see some tweaks over time.
The tutorial mission was super easy, and no on-foot mission Ive seen since then was anything like it. Engaging those enemies was easy, and I was able to stay on top of them tactically. I was able to dodge and hide behind cover enough to recharge shields, I was able to move away when grenades came in, and I was able to take down all 6-7 commandos without even losing my shield. I
Every mission since then, whether to kill some gang members, turn power back on, or pick up a biological sample in a base, has been nothing like the tutorial, with NPC players almost always overwhelming me with numbers, tanking my energy or kinetic weapons 80% better than the tutorial, being omniscient, and spawning drones on top of that.
It feels like the game will force me to play these missions ONE way. The only way Ive been able to finish the "kill x commandos" missions has been to jank them by killing 1-2, then fleeing, then coming back killing 1-2, fleeing, repeat. They dont even remember I was just killing them when I come back... and it all feels unintuitive and wrong.
The tutorial mission was super easy, and no on-foot mission Ive seen since then was anything like it. Engaging those enemies was easy, and I was able to stay on top of them tactically. I was able to dodge and hide behind cover enough to recharge shields, I was able to move away when grenades came in, and I was able to take down all 6-7 commandos without even losing my shield. I
Every mission since then, whether to kill some gang members, turn power back on, or pick up a biological sample in a base, has been nothing like the tutorial, with NPC players almost always overwhelming me with numbers, tanking my energy or kinetic weapons 80% better than the tutorial, being omniscient, and spawning drones on top of that.
It feels like the game will force me to play these missions ONE way. The only way Ive been able to finish the "kill x commandos" missions has been to jank them by killing 1-2, then fleeing, then coming back killing 1-2, fleeing, repeat. They dont even remember I was just killing them when I come back... and it all feels unintuitive and wrong.