Odyssey gameplay worries

No need to be dramatic about it. :rolleyes: But your "I wish a company would stop making a product they sold to people because I want other things!" statement isn't particularly interesting or useful to anyone. I just noticed the dude in the kebab store down the street is making a chicken durum for a customer, but I dont want a chicken durum myself. Think I should spread the news far and wide about how I wish the dude would ignore his customer and make me a pizza instead?

I was reacting to your own dramatic statement. At any rate, to build on your analogy-

Guy starts frequenting a kabob place in 2015 and regularly has the chicken durum, which is pretty good. In 2020 he's told - Chicken Durum Odyssey is coming! Bigger and better than ever! But then it turns out the chicken durum odyssey isn't chicken durum at all, but a hamburger. Hamburgers are great, but there are plenty of burger joints. Why is my favorite durum place serving burgers now? "Because we promised burgers to people in 2012." OK. I'll still eat the durum, but I won't eat the burgers. And I'm a bit let down by Chicken Durum Odyssey, and I don't plan to buy it.

Which in most places would be a perfectly reasonable point of view, in a thread entitled "Odyssey gameplay worries," LOL.
 
Just to drill down on this, consider the game as it is now. Besides combat, what can you do? For all that, how much can you really reveal before a launch?

Combat is technically 1/3 of the game (that's really loose these days but it's one of the three main pillars) and if fdev were to do a dev diary on it right now, I'd guess a whole bunch of their focus would be on combat. Tons and tons of it, actually. But is that all you can do in Elite?

For exploration, they'd obviously want to tell us about the main features of it (vastness of the galaxy, 1:1 representation, procedural generation, points of interest) but do you think they'd want to give all that goodness away before anyone played it? Show us every possible poi? Show us all the neat secrets? No... It's exploration. Obviously not.

So that leaves trade. Which I actually don't think Odyssey will expand much upon because I can't see how the existing ship hauling process could be sensibly scaled down to human size. But there are lots of other Misson templates outside of trade. Quite a few of them involve combat though, right? Well...

According to fdev, actually, Odyssey will always give you non combat options. They've even given us some examples of that.

But how much should they talk about the scenarios in the game before it's out?

You can wax lyrical all day about nuances of a combat system without giving any neat scenarios away. But you just can't do the same about scenarios or actual content.

I'd say don't worry because Elite has never only been about combat. I'd suggest that Odyssey will probably have a big focus on combat though; it is a major part of the game and Odyssey is adding the ability to walk about so it's pretty obvious shooting guns is going to be a massive focus. I'd suggest you prepare yourself for the likely fact that most major updates will be at least 1/3 combat based.

But I think it's really, really hard for fdev to go into detail on non combat stuff. Like the fourth dev diary, which we're still waiting for, is about forming a team... Chances are that won't add much to anything outside of what we know about doing shooty stuff, right? Most wing or multicrew activity is combat related.

My guess is there'll be some new activity loops in Odyssey that aren't combat related (or at least offer an alternative) that don't yet exist because they make sense on foot but not in a ship.

It's just... Do they reveal it all? We'll see.
 
I was reacting to your own dramatic statement. At any rate, to build on your analogy-

Guy starts frequenting a kabob place in 2015 and regularly has the chicken durum, which is pretty good. In 2020 he's told - Chicken Durum Odyssey is coming! Bigger and better than ever! But then it turns out the chicken durum odyssey isn't chicken durum at all, but a hamburger. Hamburgers are great, but there are plenty of burger joints. Why is my favorite durum place serving burgers now? "Because we promised burgers to people in 2012." OK. I'll still eat the durum, but I won't eat the burgers. And I'm a bit let down by Chicken Durum Odyssey, and I don't plan to buy it.

Which in most places would be a perfectly reasonable point of view, in a thread entitled "Odyssey gameplay worries," LOL.

They announced burgers in 2012, they kept confirming they were going to serve burgers, they now announce details of the burgers and this topic is about whether people are concerned about the specfics of the burger they plan to serve. And your feedback is "I dont like burgers here.".

Okay. Noted, I guess.
 
But I think it's really, really hard for fdev to go into detail on non combat stuff. [...] My guess is there'll be some new activity loops in Odyssey that aren't combat related (or at least offer an alternative) that don't yet exist because they make sense on foot but not in a ship.

It's just... Do they reveal it all? We'll see.

I would be very, very hesistant to go the "there will be cool but secret and unannounced content" route, as so far that has been nothing but a disappointing approach in ED or other space games the last decade. If FD doesnt make a Big Deal about something, that is because the Big Deal doesn't exist or isn't nearly as big as hoped.

Space Legs are a way of moving about, at the end of the day. And when moving about you will either shoot at stuff, or scan stuff. In some cases you will shoot stuff before you get to scan stuff. In those situations you might at times be able to avoid shooting stuff by sneaking around before you get to scan stuff. If you dont like shooting stuff, you will mostly have just the scanning stuff left, plus the avoiding-the-shooting-stuff bits. With Space Legs, you might end up Carrying Stuff, or getting some Dialogue Stuff, instead of Scanning Stuff.

Which is all great with me, but to people not into shooting stuff: don't get too excited about there being tons of awesome non-combat stuff they have hidden from us. There will be some, but combat is the name of the game, gameplay-wise.
 
I've got to say it's been rather entertaining during the past year watching those once strong and proud Shields of Denial gradually collapsing under the imminent and inescapable realization that Frontier is actually doing the game they have always said they were going to do.
 
I just want that gun off the back....damn that's ugly...I don't like it, sign my petition, "rifle smaller and slung"!!! #fDEvdoinit wrong.
 
I would be very, very hesistant to go the "there will be cool but secret and unannounced content" route
I don't think I did that.

Definitely nowhere did I say there "will" be anything. I said it was a guess. And "some game play loops other than what we have" includes simply a mission type that we don't have yet.

They've touched on those already, at least a couple. I'm unconvinced they've shared everything with us. They've been pretty open about not sharing everything. My guess was there may be more mission types and "things we can do" (ie poi scenarios) that are unlike anything we do now. The rest of my point was to highlight the idea that fdev probably don't want to just tell us everything and that's going to limit what we get told about exploration in particular... Given exploration is pretty much ruined if we don't get to explore it ourselves - that said, I think much of it will be poi driven anyway, not much for outside of the bubble and so I agree that we've probably seen most of what's to come regarding flora and I'm only marginally interested in that. But, as I said, there's more to the game than these two areas.

Given the likely fact that doing stuff "hands on and face to face" opens up a whole new method of world interaction you just can't do in a space ship, for the pure sake of trying to reassure the op and keep some semblance of balance here, I don't think my guess is worthy of hesitancy. Less so considering I was pretty clear that there are reasons Odyssey probably will have a strong focus on combat game play.

I'm also not suggesting there will be many ultra cool features fdev keep from us by the time alpha launches. But... I'm not sure that's really necessary in an expansion that is adding an entire new scope to the game. If doing stuff on foot isn't interesting enough on its own, I can't imagine much "cool stuff" that'll interest the op anyway. I mean, isn't the ultra cool thing about Elite its scale anyway? What else if not that? And Odyssey is adding a big buffer to that. Being concerned there's nothing but combat seems a bit odd... Elite clearly has never only been about combat.

But sure, if hesitancy is required and feelings are on the line, my suggestion is to not think about it at all and treat the subject with no concern. Which is, given the fact it's just a game, an equally valid approach.
 
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I'm unconvinced they've shared everything with us. They've been pretty open about not sharing everything.
Yep, they've explicitly said there's more, although it's probably been a while, back when the first couple of dev diaries came out I think. But Gareth Hughes said it - sort of - again in the recent MCV article : “That being said, we don’t take that trust for granted so we’re revealing Odyssey little by little with everything we show being absolutely true to the player experience”.

I'm looking forward to what we already know is coming, everything/anything else will be a bonus.
 
They announced burgers in 2012

If their roadmap commitments are that far overdue, this release makes more sense. I started playing in 15 and with little disposable time have not dug in much to what came before, so thanks for the info. I'm just expressing personal preference - I do love the flight experience, and look forward to its further development. And completely open to being proved wrong. If Odyssey is a killer fps (or even an OK fps that works in context with the game) I'll gladly eat my hat.

o7
 
If their roadmap commitments are that far overdue, this release makes more sense. I started playing in 15 and with little disposable time have not dug in much to what came before, so thanks for the info. I'm just expressing personal preference - I do love the flight experience, and look forward to its further development. And completely open to being proved wrong. If Odyssey is a killer fps (or even an OK fps that works in context with the game) I'll gladly eat my hat.

o7

Oh, it certainly has been a very long wait indeed! In case you are interested, way back during the KS FD proposed a (tentative!) plan, where they said they'd launch a 'base version' of the game in 2014, and then would iterate on that via paid expansions.They didn't go into a lot of detail, but gave the following examples of paid-for DLC they were aiming for (remember this was also part of the advertisement for the Lifetime Expansion Pass; clearly they had to give some indication that would be worth it in the end!) in no particular order:

1) non-atmo planetary landings
2) atmo-landings (in multiple consecutive DLC) including flora and fauna
3) spacelegs: combat and station interiors
4) spacelegs: EVA and ship internals, including boarding
5) huge 'executive class' ships

Step one was done via Horizons after one year, step 5 was added via Fleet Carriers in the 'free' update last year (a bit odd, but hey). For years there have been a forum war about which of the Two Big Features should come first: atmo planets or spacelegs. With Odyssey, FD seems to have gone for 3) plus a little bit of 2).

FD also made it clear to its investors Odyssey is a first step in a long-term financial commitment to ED. So I am sure we can look forward to continue the Great Debate in its new form: should FD focus on 4) or continue working on 2)? The biggest change Odyssey has brought with it is the confirmation FD is not done with ED, as many had started to fear over the years following the release of Horizon, and is still continuing on the path it set out on almost a decade ago. :D
 
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