Calling it a promise is probably somewhat of a stretch..
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When did FDEV ever "promise" this?
all i can remember DB ever saying with regard to the topic was, "We do plan to take regular archives of the game and the servers, to preserve the game for the future.", has anything changed of substance in the following 8+ years?
many of use got forum warnings about this issue back in the day. have things calmed down then?
What is your opinion of the first three versions of Elite?
I purposefully put the "promise" in quotes (think Dr Evil air quotes) because I'm just going by what some others have claimed in this thread. I was focused less on the "promise" part in my post and more on the "servers will be included" (paraphrase) part.
AFAIK, there was a "promise" in the orginal kickstarter. When they retracted that feature they had to offer anyone that disagreed a refund, and that was that. The rest is just some myth created from some words to the effect that they would do snapshots to POSSIBLY be able to create something in case the game gets shutdown.
prior to nov 29th 2022, I would agree that there were many computers acting as servers for the game.
since that day, feels more like 1 pc.
and fwiw, modems not being required anymore....
I host 3 servers
1 music/videos
1 Unreal Tournament 4 way.
1 Freelancer.
no-one can tell how many pc's are behind that except for other people doing the same thing.
btw, being a part of the kickstarter...I have nothing that says I get my own copy to play forever once its dead and parked.
never happened.
and anyone assuming such is not being clear headed about it.
this is not a 16kb game.
and just what medium do you think several tb of data would be on? for $39.95 or $49.95 , etc... no matter how much a person spent on kickstarter, no one in their right mind would expect to be handed a hard drive when its all over. or a BR disc...just not.
let alone the actual game portion.
have any of you ever downloaded any of the json files from eddb?
and really, no different than playing legacy now....
fun for 5 minutes
but like pacman, history is history.
since that day, feels more like 1 pc.
and fwiw, modems not being required anymore....
I host 3 servers
1 music/videos
1 Unreal Tournament 4 way.
1 Freelancer.
no-one can tell how many pc's are behind that except for other people doing the same thing.
btw, being a part of the kickstarter...I have nothing that says I get my own copy to play forever once its dead and parked.
never happened.
and anyone assuming such is not being clear headed about it.
this is not a 16kb game.
and just what medium do you think several tb of data would be on? for $39.95 or $49.95 , etc... no matter how much a person spent on kickstarter, no one in their right mind would expect to be handed a hard drive when its all over. or a BR disc...just not.
let alone the actual game portion.
have any of you ever downloaded any of the json files from eddb?
and really, no different than playing legacy now....
fun for 5 minutes
but like pacman, history is history.
I was also part of the KS - here is my pledge:
…and the “DRM-free” bit was important to me at the time. From the FAQ:
There was also this bit about Offline single player (the “Update” part):
So at the time, that looked to me like I’d be able to play a version of the game without having to touch online at all - which was very important to me at the time as I was away at sea for long periods.
Having a physical copy would mean I’d always have the game available.
I never expected to be “handed a hard drive” because I never expected to have any other players data in my game - thankfully procedural generation means I would already have the entire Milky Way on my computer and the game would only track my adventures while (I assumed) simulating NPC stuff and having trade markets like the Frontier games, though a bit more complex of course.
———
@Jack Winter - I think you maybe conflating the KS Offline “promise” with David Braben’s comments about preserving the game once the servers shut down - Offline was cancelled a few weeks before launch and refunds were eventually agreed (but not without hassle in some cases), while regarding game preservation DB answered this:
“We have no intention of taking the servers down, but I understand what you are getting at. We plan to archive the game from time to time (ie matching client and servers and game world state), and would release such an archive if the servers were to come down. That would also address the issue of how you preserve an online game for the future, from the whole 'retro' perspective.”
I'm not that much worried about the future of the current incarnation of Elite series as Elite Dangerous, but about the permanence of my achievements in the in Elite series. To me, Elite series of games feels like a shared journey, onto which many commanders have decided to embark on, maybe in their youth. Looking at it from this perspective, one of the reasons why I sort of want to invest my time into this game now, instead of most other games, is for a chance to be remembered for my (mostly harmless) influence in the Elite series over the years and in hopes of being recognized for it even in some insignificantly tiny manner.
So for me, offline would offer comfort in that despite the future of Elite Dangerous, my achievements would be preserved at least on my local disk. Third party services such as EDSM, EDDB, etc. do a great job and which sort of overlaps this intent, but being noted in those services still doesn't mean that whatever you've done in/for this galaxy during the last two decades in Elite series, would become any part of Elite canon, be it simply a cosmetic vanity such as a planet named after a commander, or a colony on this planet named after a commander, or something similar. Well, it's a difficult subject to open so this is definitely not an ultimatum of any kind, just wishful thinking.
However, as an additional income tip, I think that even these tiny fragments of Elite canon would be really valuable to many commanders - why not sell these "vanity cosmetics" for in-game achievements or even ARX?
So for me, offline would offer comfort in that despite the future of Elite Dangerous, my achievements would be preserved at least on my local disk. Third party services such as EDSM, EDDB, etc. do a great job and which sort of overlaps this intent, but being noted in those services still doesn't mean that whatever you've done in/for this galaxy during the last two decades in Elite series, would become any part of Elite canon, be it simply a cosmetic vanity such as a planet named after a commander, or a colony on this planet named after a commander, or something similar. Well, it's a difficult subject to open so this is definitely not an ultimatum of any kind, just wishful thinking.
However, as an additional income tip, I think that even these tiny fragments of Elite canon would be really valuable to many commanders - why not sell these "vanity cosmetics" for in-game achievements or even ARX?
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Proper damage model for example.
It was indeed a feature touted in the kickstarter campaign, along with 3D models of ships, those as add ons to the rewards! With regards to the fallout when it was cut, it got quite tense and quite a few people did leave! The refund situation got a bit messy (technically it was still in Beta) and not quite as drama free as you might think, especially given that it was just weeks before launch! Times best consigned to the annals of history, and probably best not revisited.
That's full of "we'll investigate" and "if possible"... And you missed the part where they said there will be no offline version. Which was after they "investigated".
Regarding the "promise" of an offline mode after the game gets abandoned:
"If it were ever to happen, we would be able to release an archived version of the game, including the servers, but of course this would not evolve any further," Braben said.
www.eurogamer.net
So they would be "able" which is not a promise.
"If it were ever to happen, we would be able to release an archived version of the game, including the servers, but of course this would not evolve any further," Braben said.
David Braben responds to outcry over Elite: Dangerous' ditched offline mode
Frontier has responded to the outcry over its decision to ditch Elite: Dangerous' promised offline mode.
www.eurogamer.net
So they would be "able" which is not a promise.
The post I was replying to was regarding Kickstarter which up until a few weeks before release did indeed say there would be an offline version of the game.That's full of "we'll investigate" and "if possible"... And you missed the part where they said there will be no offline version. Which was after they "investigated".
The “investigate” part was regarding syncing between live and offline - an argument I’ve seen made against Offline several times over the years is about CMDRs cheating their way offline before joining the online game, but it was never intended to be that way. The sync would be to (possibly) keep the offline games updated to the live Galaxy.
There was no “if possible” in the KS description I posted - but there is “it will be possible” - with a little bit of emphasis in case you missed it. Here, have your wink back >
Another thing I’ve seen over the years is players using the “but he didn’t use the word ‘promise’” argument, like we are running around in a primary school playground or something.
“Could the server code be released publicly some day when the servers are shut down?
Yes. This is something we would do if for whatever reason we cannot keep the game going.”
David Braben Q&A in Newsletter #50
The whole Kickstarter is an 'if possible' and 'we investigate'. They weren't even obliged to release a game.The post I was replying to was regarding Kickstarter which up until a few weeks before release did indeed say there would be an offline version of the game.
The “investigate” part was regarding syncing between live and offline - an argument I’ve seen made against Offline several times over the years is about CMDRs cheating their way offline before joining the online game, but it was never intended to be that way. The sync would be to (possibly) keep the offline games updated to the live Galaxy.
There was no “if possible” in the KS description I posted - but there is “it will be possible” - with a little bit of emphasis in case you missed it. Here, have your wink back >
Another thing I’ve seen over the years is players using the “but he didn’t use the word ‘promise’” argument, like we are running around in a primary school playground or something.
“Could the server code be released publicly some day when the servers are shut down?
Yes. This is something we would do if for whatever reason we cannot keep the game going.”
David Braben Q&A in Newsletter #50
What you pledged for was a vision and not a promise.
The lesson has been well learnt with Frontier (and other game developers). Give no credence (or money) to what they say, only what they do.
That defense sounds like we should think of Frontier as (adjective) politicians. They say/said whatever people like to hear without giving it a real thought if they could do it, or even would do it. Is that it?Regarding the "promise" of an offline mode after the game gets abandoned:
"If it were ever to happen, we would be able to release an archived version of the game, including the servers, but of course this would not evolve any further," Braben said.
David Braben responds to outcry over Elite: Dangerous' ditched offline mode
Frontier has responded to the outcry over its decision to ditch Elite: Dangerous' promised offline mode.
So they would be "able" which is not a promise.
If/when Frontier shuts down the servers one day, I don't think we'll get said data/tools to run private servers. That was said too long ago, things have changed. It will be just one more thing that never came to pass.
But Frontier deliberately made all those statements back in the day and happily cashed in on them. So I won't simply let them off the hook that easily and think they are accountable for those statements with regards to their reputation.
Cool, after the goalposts have finished shifting I’ll get back to playing my pledge-o-vision and consider myself lucky
