This is not PvP, this is pure seal-clubbing. No wonder many players don't even want to try Open.
ok i have to admit, there may be a problem
- Thread starter kingchub
- Start date
This is not PvP, this is pure seal-clubbing. No wonder many players don't even want to try Open.
Hello Kingchub,
In a game where the resource to pay of crime becomes easier to earn, there will always be bored people who struggle to find something meaningful to do in the game, so can blow a few MCr annoying others in open. If you remove this scaling, I am not sure what game we would have left. Hopefully the crime and punishment update we will hear about on Friday will at least give the "educate the newbies" some pause for thought.
I agree somewhat with the "its an education"/passage of right view of some people who replied, but not the "its a holy right " of an experienced player to educate newer players by shooting them.
From your post, this is clearly a new situation for you helping someone with very little knowledge or skill in the game yet. I think the education comment is probably better aimed at yourself, in the sense you are the driving instructor sitting in the passenger seat with a learner driver. Situational awareness, for example, any other PCs around on the scanner is something you will have to do to begin with and try to teach.
I have not actually taken anyone under my wing, but from your OP, I think I would stay together at all times, rather than separate to try and fool a game mechanic into spitting out juicier targets. This is probably not something I would be teaching a new player first, when they do not even know how to be a good wingman and activate beacons etc. Being a good wingman again something to teach later, I would use the mechanics of the pair (locked on each other) to stay together. Time to find your friend was the difference between survival and ship destruction. I believe your friend learnt something - as his initial response to being interdicted was - hey no problem I will boost.
Being interdicted is not always a walk in the park, whether NPC or PC. Learning to spot the other ship moving in for the interdiction is a skill (I still miss it sometimes even today). When effectively stopped in SC you are vulnerable. However you can out turn the other ship, to normally avoid them getting on you 6 to activate the interdictor. I would practise that with your friend, that skill would have given you time to get there and interdict the player yourself in SC.
If your friend is sensitive to ship destruction, I would also consider private group to start with to teach the survival skillsin SC, so you can scout out the next point of interest. Some people will shrug it off and say "ok that did not work, what could I have done differently" and for them the 0 cost sidy is great learning experience. Some becomes frustrated, "the game is too hard" or "players should not pick on nubies". I, personally am naturally in the latter camp, and it took me a long time to learn how to be objective about ship destruction (most of Alpha and Premier beta).
I think taking another player under your wing is a brilliant thing to do, I think you have to play differently, as you are, at least to begin with, responsible for 2 parties, one of which probably does not instinctively know what do in a given situation.
Thanks for starting the thread, and trying to respond intelligently to some of the replies. All people had a valid point, but not all people (myself included) are very good at writing this down without sounding arrogant or righteous. I hope to be helping a friend through soon, so your experience is invaluable to me (I no this is small comfort).
Thanks
Simon
In a game where the resource to pay of crime becomes easier to earn, there will always be bored people who struggle to find something meaningful to do in the game, so can blow a few MCr annoying others in open. If you remove this scaling, I am not sure what game we would have left. Hopefully the crime and punishment update we will hear about on Friday will at least give the "educate the newbies" some pause for thought.
I agree somewhat with the "its an education"/passage of right view of some people who replied, but not the "its a holy right " of an experienced player to educate newer players by shooting them.
From your post, this is clearly a new situation for you helping someone with very little knowledge or skill in the game yet. I think the education comment is probably better aimed at yourself, in the sense you are the driving instructor sitting in the passenger seat with a learner driver. Situational awareness, for example, any other PCs around on the scanner is something you will have to do to begin with and try to teach.
I have not actually taken anyone under my wing, but from your OP, I think I would stay together at all times, rather than separate to try and fool a game mechanic into spitting out juicier targets. This is probably not something I would be teaching a new player first, when they do not even know how to be a good wingman and activate beacons etc. Being a good wingman again something to teach later, I would use the mechanics of the pair (locked on each other) to stay together. Time to find your friend was the difference between survival and ship destruction. I believe your friend learnt something - as his initial response to being interdicted was - hey no problem I will boost.
Being interdicted is not always a walk in the park, whether NPC or PC. Learning to spot the other ship moving in for the interdiction is a skill (I still miss it sometimes even today). When effectively stopped in SC you are vulnerable. However you can out turn the other ship, to normally avoid them getting on you 6 to activate the interdictor. I would practise that with your friend, that skill would have given you time to get there and interdict the player yourself in SC.
If your friend is sensitive to ship destruction, I would also consider private group to start with to teach the survival skillsin SC, so you can scout out the next point of interest. Some people will shrug it off and say "ok that did not work, what could I have done differently" and for them the 0 cost sidy is great learning experience. Some becomes frustrated, "the game is too hard" or "players should not pick on nubies". I, personally am naturally in the latter camp, and it took me a long time to learn how to be objective about ship destruction (most of Alpha and Premier beta).
I think taking another player under your wing is a brilliant thing to do, I think you have to play differently, as you are, at least to begin with, responsible for 2 parties, one of which probably does not instinctively know what do in a given situation.
Thanks for starting the thread, and trying to respond intelligently to some of the replies. All people had a valid point, but not all people (myself included) are very good at writing this down without sounding arrogant or righteous. I hope to be helping a friend through soon, so your experience is invaluable to me (I no this is small comfort).
Thanks
Simon
Going into a RES with a Sidey is suicide for a new player.... what can I say....
Expect the worst from people.Always.Unless they're explorers.Explorers are awesome.
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Funny, I got accused of "crying" amongst other things for suggesting exactly that.
![[VR] Mad Mike](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/27/27910.jpg?1553527108){kind=avatar}
hmmmm so whiners until it happened to you, but now... not so much?
Personally I would be genuinely fine with this kind of activity...... IF the game reacted in a believable way. Serial killers should be hunted by all. If that happens, being kicked out of the Fedeeration of pilots, having to smuggle into all stations, living life on the edge hunted by anyone and everyone, which afterall is surely what those claiming to be roleplaying being a serial killer must want???, then you will get no complaint from me.
untill then however it is just cowards picking fights they wont lose spoiling others games knowing there are no repercussions, which is lame imo.
For those saying it is only a game.... As I have said before, the issue with FD is that some people play it as COD in space, others play it as trying to play a somewhat believable go at what it may be like to do the role of a spaceman in 1000+ years time, and when ships are worth what they are worth, silly pew pew for lolz would not happen (and if it did, insurance companies would not keep paying 95% ships value without putting a sizeable hit on the person who caused the damage).
But then the same kind of people are the ones who go into a racing game and try to ram cars even if it ruins their race as well.... pathetic if you ask me, but there are plenty here who think it is great.
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nats
Banned
I dont see anything wrong with this at all. You just have to read about the Richthofen the Red Baron in WW1 to realise that this is exactly how he fought his battles and made a massive name for himself as a deadly ace and lived so long into a very brutal war. He only attacked targets where he knew he had overwhelming odds against, he flew as part of a large circus, he always aimed for the rear flyer or someone slightly away from the rest or not paying attention, he tried to shoot them down on the first diving pass, and he rarely if ever came back into the melee afterwards.
These people are trying to up their rating just like you are. And players are a lot more fun to fight than NPCs and its a lot more meaningful if you kill them after a good fight. Are they role palying - yes probably if they consider themselves as pirates or outlaws.
Do I think its chivalrous or morally right - no.
But I fully understand why people do it, thats part of the open game and if you dont like it dont play open. Personally I relish the danger and challenge in open, it makes the game worth playing for me. And I am in a trader ship. means I am blooming careful though where I go and how well armed I am when I go out there, and how careful about insurance I am.
So yeah, nothing wrong with it, the game is to be played as a conflict between players, I hope your friend learned a bit from fighting a player. He was also very unlucky though. I have played the game since beta and never been griefed or attacked by another player yet. Actually I am actually quite jealous because I would love to experience a fight with a decent player for a change, I just never seem to find them. Maybe I should start again in a Sidey?
As for the above post about hunting down pirates yes I certainly hope the game introduces a reporting mechanic where poeple can report a pirate when they dock, and if they become very notorious (ie get a lot of reports from players) they get placed on the local bulletin boards around the area they were last seen and bounty hunter wings can try to find them. That would be great. We need to start seeing these people on the boards so we know they are there in the locality. Vigilante groups would be a great addition to the game. as would being able to take private policing contracts by the law of the local area. I hope this thing gets introduced in Powerplay where powers from their own wanted lists.
These people are trying to up their rating just like you are. And players are a lot more fun to fight than NPCs and its a lot more meaningful if you kill them after a good fight. Are they role palying - yes probably if they consider themselves as pirates or outlaws.
Do I think its chivalrous or morally right - no.
But I fully understand why people do it, thats part of the open game and if you dont like it dont play open. Personally I relish the danger and challenge in open, it makes the game worth playing for me. And I am in a trader ship. means I am blooming careful though where I go and how well armed I am when I go out there, and how careful about insurance I am.
So yeah, nothing wrong with it, the game is to be played as a conflict between players, I hope your friend learned a bit from fighting a player. He was also very unlucky though. I have played the game since beta and never been griefed or attacked by another player yet. Actually I am actually quite jealous because I would love to experience a fight with a decent player for a change, I just never seem to find them. Maybe I should start again in a Sidey?
As for the above post about hunting down pirates yes I certainly hope the game introduces a reporting mechanic where poeple can report a pirate when they dock, and if they become very notorious (ie get a lot of reports from players) they get placed on the local bulletin boards around the area they were last seen and bounty hunter wings can try to find them. That would be great. We need to start seeing these people on the boards so we know they are there in the locality. Vigilante groups would be a great addition to the game. as would being able to take private policing contracts by the law of the local area. I hope this thing gets introduced in Powerplay where powers from their own wanted lists.
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i guess i can admit that it was my fault for leaving him outside the RES. In my defence, i knew he might get attacked, i just didnt think that a player in a python would bother attacking a harmless sidewinder. I wouldn't, but then to each their own i guess.
Just before this happened i too was bored and wanting some pvp. So i fit up an eagle, and went out interdicting vipers and cobras. It was fun and challenging, even if they were lower rank than me (im Master atm), they certainly were not harmless and they had a bigger more powerful ship, so i thought it fair enough. Those who didnt seem to know what they were doing after interdiction, i simply let go. Why? becuase theres no challenge in senseless killing. No real skill involved, it doesnt make me feel like i'm good at something. In fact it would probably make me feel slightly worse than i had when i started. Even if the kill was accidental.
to those saying he lost a free ship, well it was not free it was upgraded, he had to pay.
to those saying this is not griefing - your right the player in the python did not grief. But that does change that what he did was disgusting. Also the fact that as my friend left the station (after rebuying his ship) was rammed intentionally by a player in an Orca to death, i think the incident as a whole should be considered griefing becuase it was preventing my friend from progressing further. I think it quite possible that these people knew each other and are actively doing these things with malicious intent.
CMDR JughedJones - i will champion for Sandmann if u want some pvp.
Just before this happened i too was bored and wanting some pvp. So i fit up an eagle, and went out interdicting vipers and cobras. It was fun and challenging, even if they were lower rank than me (im Master atm), they certainly were not harmless and they had a bigger more powerful ship, so i thought it fair enough. Those who didnt seem to know what they were doing after interdiction, i simply let go. Why? becuase theres no challenge in senseless killing. No real skill involved, it doesnt make me feel like i'm good at something. In fact it would probably make me feel slightly worse than i had when i started. Even if the kill was accidental.
to those saying he lost a free ship, well it was not free it was upgraded, he had to pay.
to those saying this is not griefing - your right the player in the python did not grief. But that does change that what he did was disgusting. Also the fact that as my friend left the station (after rebuying his ship) was rammed intentionally by a player in an Orca to death, i think the incident as a whole should be considered griefing becuase it was preventing my friend from progressing further. I think it quite possible that these people knew each other and are actively doing these things with malicious intent.
CMDR JughedJones - i will champion for Sandmann if u want some pvp.
Open play shouldn't be a synonym of griefing. The "it's your fault because you played in open" argument relies on the fact that open is like this by design. But it's not.
And it seems like FD agrees with me here, since they 're planning to make the bounty system less forgiving.
And it seems like FD agrees with me here, since they 're planning to make the bounty system less forgiving.
If you want to remain in open play but avoid the idiots, well, it's a big galaxy.
There are plenty of cool systems out there and off the beaten track that provide all sorts of interesting scenarios.
Myself, I'm in a numbered system that's high-tech, has more than one station, multiple resource extraction sites and regularly spawns high and low conflict zones. It gets minimal human traffic (I'm assuming because the name's not memorable), and those that do travel through don't seem to be interested in what many players would consider "Griefing".
Have a poke around, find a system you like and settle down. If you happen to settle in the same system as me, no worries.
Unless you've got a substantial bounty of course
There are plenty of cool systems out there and off the beaten track that provide all sorts of interesting scenarios.
Myself, I'm in a numbered system that's high-tech, has more than one station, multiple resource extraction sites and regularly spawns high and low conflict zones. It gets minimal human traffic (I'm assuming because the name's not memorable), and those that do travel through don't seem to be interested in what many players would consider "Griefing".
Have a poke around, find a system you like and settle down. If you happen to settle in the same system as me, no worries.
Unless you've got a substantial bounty of course
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Players motives are hard to understand.
This might have been the pythons first time in open and he interdicted a player to try out some pvp. I'm not saying this is an excuse, but you will find the forum full of people who state their plan is to earn money "safely" in solo, then finally turn up in open with their tooled up anaconda (or whatever uber ship they think is their I win button). These people aren't off earning money to then have a "fair" fight with other commanders in equally expensive ships.
I hope your friend sticks with the game, hes learnt a good lesson, and the amount of time to earn back the insurance cost is trivial. Dying in the sidewinder is the best time for it, no matter how badly it feels.
In my opinion (and some others) the issue is the criminal system. If someone wants to kill another player thats fine. If they have more skill, or a better ship thats what they will need to get the job done, no problem with that. The problem is the person getting killed (well its not really killed, its forced to pay insurance) can't really get some pay back.
Its nearly impossible to find another specific player, and the current system allows players to pay off their wanted bounties straight away. Until this changes there is no real punishment mechanic available.
This might have been the pythons first time in open and he interdicted a player to try out some pvp. I'm not saying this is an excuse, but you will find the forum full of people who state their plan is to earn money "safely" in solo, then finally turn up in open with their tooled up anaconda (or whatever uber ship they think is their I win button). These people aren't off earning money to then have a "fair" fight with other commanders in equally expensive ships.
I hope your friend sticks with the game, hes learnt a good lesson, and the amount of time to earn back the insurance cost is trivial. Dying in the sidewinder is the best time for it, no matter how badly it feels.
In my opinion (and some others) the issue is the criminal system. If someone wants to kill another player thats fine. If they have more skill, or a better ship thats what they will need to get the job done, no problem with that. The problem is the person getting killed (well its not really killed, its forced to pay insurance) can't really get some pay back.
Its nearly impossible to find another specific player, and the current system allows players to pay off their wanted bounties straight away. Until this changes there is no real punishment mechanic available.
If you want to remain in open play but avoid the idiots, well, it's a big galaxy.
There are plenty of cool systems out there and off the beaten track that provide all sorts of interesting scenarios.
Myself, I'm in a numbered system that's high-tech, has more than one station, multiple resource extraction sites and regularly spawns high and low conflict zones. It gets minimal human traffic (I'm assuming because the name's not memorable), and those that do travel through don't seem to be interested in what many players would consider "Griefing".
Have a poke around, find a system you like and settle down. If you happen to settle in the same system as me, no worries.
Unless you've got a substantial bounty of course
One question though, if you play that way (and that's entirely your option) what's the difference to playing in Solo or Group?
- - - Updated - - -
You find the forum full of such claims, but very little evidence as far as I know.
I agree the crime and punishment system needs to be improved, with harsher penalties which cannot be paid off for serious offences, but that's the way things work. If doing something illegal is worth the risk, someone will do it. If the risk is too low, people will engage in illegal activities for very futile reasons.
In any case attacking and destroying a ship in civilised space has its consequences, even if these are not quite serious enough. If the system is properly balanced, there will be criminals, but they will always choose their victims carefully, weighing risk and reward (I also believe the rewards also need increasing, with piracy for example).
Anarchy systems are another story. I believe this kind of attack happens way too little in anarchy systems. Beside the consequences of the fight itself, there is no other risk in anarchy for the attacker, and those traveling here should be well prepared to face the consequences. If you are not able to fend for yourself, there are others willing to do it for you in civilised space.
This is a game and the great thing is that people can choose what to be. There will be those who kill and steal, and there will be those who protect the innocent, help the just and teach the un-learned. After all what is the point of being good if there is no evil to fight?
In any case attacking and destroying a ship in civilised space has its consequences, even if these are not quite serious enough. If the system is properly balanced, there will be criminals, but they will always choose their victims carefully, weighing risk and reward (I also believe the rewards also need increasing, with piracy for example).
Anarchy systems are another story. I believe this kind of attack happens way too little in anarchy systems. Beside the consequences of the fight itself, there is no other risk in anarchy for the attacker, and those traveling here should be well prepared to face the consequences. If you are not able to fend for yourself, there are others willing to do it for you in civilised space.
This is a game and the great thing is that people can choose what to be. There will be those who kill and steal, and there will be those who protect the innocent, help the just and teach the un-learned. After all what is the point of being good if there is no evil to fight?
I do still see people in my system, and it adds a certain frisson.
Partly, I don't know exactly how they'll react to my presence.
Partly, I may be able to help them if they're new, as I did with some poor fella in a Sidey the other night who couldn't find the mail slot.
And partly, sometimes it's just nice to see other people around. You don't necessarily have to interact with them to appreciate this.
The actions of the other Python were pretty pointless, but he's not doing anything other than being an RP bully who fought the wee guy and ran away when the big guy tried to take him down. That's how he plays the game. He could be a nice guy in real life. RP is different. I'm a complete git in real life, but this morning chatted to and help a couple of Harmless Sidewinders around LHS3447 and nearby systems who were struggling with basic stuff. To be honest, being in a Harmless Sidewinder near a RES is just not something I would consider, but I suppose that in a Wing with a combat Python he'd manage it. Like a kitten being protected by a polar bear. Rooooooar.
The crime system updates will help with this stuff. Once people are Wanted for murder persistently, they'll hopefully back off. Bounty hunting FDLs will have a real purpose in that galaxy. In this one...
...run!
The crime system updates will help with this stuff. Once people are Wanted for murder persistently, they'll hopefully back off. Bounty hunting FDLs will have a real purpose in that galaxy. In this one...
...run!
I'm not crying, and I'm fairly sure the OP isn't crying either.
The point is that the guy in the Python has no consequences to worry about, but once the balance is addressed I predict we'll see the Python CMDR in here making threads. He will no doubt complain that it's not fair that he had his day ruined by <insert consequences here>, when all he did was ruin someone else's day.
Fyi I give a hoot about my favourite game.
I don't give a hoot about people who love spamming threads to tell everyone how much they couldn't care less, like you.
In all my years I don't think I've seen such a bunch of epic wailing and whining over anything as I've seen when someone loses their imaginary space ships. I've got to admit its quite amazing how upset people get.
Whats even more odd is the emotional response people have when, its a PLAYER (shock horror).. if its an NPC - no one bats an eye lid.
You have to chuckle.
Whats even more odd is the emotional response people have when, its a PLAYER (shock horror).. if its an NPC - no one bats an eye lid.
You have to chuckle.
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So with that outlook I take it you are fine with rammers... in both this game, and in say, car racing sims.
how about people who disconnect when being attacked? If you are consistent then surely anything goes if its all just imaginary?. It does not matter 1 jot if there is a disconnect in the game mechanics which were advertised and the ones which we currently have, so there is no need for FD to improve anything?
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Ramming is okay I guess.. disconnecting (i.e. combat logging) is not.. I expect to be shot at and rammed in a cut throat galaxy and a game called elite dangerous - but I wouldn't expect them to vanish in a puff of smoke to save their skins
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