On Anarchism and Content Creation

Melanthes

Melanthes
babelfisch said:
Problem is that the way anarchies are depicted in game doesn't do them justice. Anarchy doesn't necessarily mean the absence of order but the abscence of authority (since English is not my native language I am struggling to find the right words...). To make things worse, the only way to have an Anarchy in Elite is to have a controlling faction which is kind of contradictiory. Anarchy pretty much just means lawless in Elite.
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There are even Federation, Empire and Alliance oriented anarchy factions, some of them even look (in name) as if they are not player inserted, although most do. I'd say this shows that anarchy system are not really anarchies in the way they are conceptualised in political theory. But mostly some kind of loose mob organisations (sometimes supported by superpowers), which inadequately fill the hole left by the previous faction in power. I assume that anarchy in Elite is mostly just the absence of the political influence of any structural government, and not a positive phenomenon.
Isn't the Pilots Federation in a way also a very anarchical organisation? I mean all this institutionalised bribery, lack of any kind of police, unorganized reaction to the targoid invasion etc. fits the picture of the CMDRs being space punks rather than members of any society.

I agree with OP that these lawless regions of space present a really good opportunity to carve your own part of space. I usually search for anarchist systems, when moving my fleet and homebase and support them by using their black market, rather than searching for the best place to sell. Although a single anarchy station within an otherwise low sec system also has it's very own charm.
 

Midian Cabal

Midian Cabal
Melanthes said:
There are even Federation, Empire and Alliance oriented anarchy factions, some of them even look (in name) as if they are not player inserted, although most do. I'd say this shows that anarchy system are not really anarchies in the way they are conceptualised in political theory. But mostly some kind of loose mob organisations (sometimes supported by superpowers), which inadequately fill the hole left by the previous faction in power. I assume that anarchy in Elite is mostly just the absence of the political influence of any structural government, and not a positive phenomenon.
Isn't the Pilots Federation in a way also a very anarchical organisation? I mean all this institutionalised bribery, lack of any kind of police, unorganized reaction to the targoid invasion etc. fits the picture of the CMDRs being space punks rather than members of any society.

I agree with OP that these lawless regions of space present a really good opportunity to carve your own part of space. I usually search for anarchist systems, when moving my fleet and homebase and support them by using their black market, rather than searching for the best place to sell. Although a single anarchy station within an otherwise low sec system also has it's very own charm.
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Absence of any structural government doesn't mean the absence of the political influence, on the contrary. And that's a very positive phenomenon. ;) In anarchy systems there is no Hobbes' social contract in which its citizens implicitly surrender some of their rights and freedoms to some hierarchical authority.

Also when you're describing the Pilots Federation you use anarchy, but you mean disorder. Anarchy doesn't equal disorder, it's the opposite of it. It's law and freedom without force.
 

Ian Doncaster

Ian Doncaster
Melanthes said:
That's an optimistic perspective on the pirate clans which usually rule anarchy systems.;)
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The use of Anarchy for the pirate-heavy systems dates back to the original Elite and its Cold War perspective on which governments were best.

The Cooperative government type introduced in Elite Dangerous is about as close as you can get to non-hierarchical (exactly what suffix they put on their anarcho- is hard to say) while still being able to count as a minor faction at all.
 

Melanthes

Melanthes
Midian Cabal said:
You think so? How often pirates pirate each other? If they do, then they ain't no friends of mine. Uneducated barbarians, sheesh...
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I'm constantly pirated by pirates, especially when I pirate myself. Sometimes I even get a bounty payout from the pirate faction, whose pirates tried to pirate me.;)
 

Deleted member 38366

D
Hm, I've always considered "Anarchy" Systems bugged, although I understand the 1984 reference.

Anarchy doesn't mean "no rules, no consequences". It's a place with plenty of rules and regulations, the only difference being : it's massively decentralized and localized
Knowing who is who, what to do and what better not to do in which specific location or situation would be crucial to survival in an Anarchy.
Gotta learn and respect the locals and their respective rules - or pay the price.

Ironically, even uninhabited Systems are incorrectly labeled "Anarchy", which would indicate human presence which doesn't even exist there.
Those should be all "Lawless".

And "Lawless" would be the key to true "freedom from any rules, laws or consequences". The stronger or smarter one wins, easy as that.
Bunda used to be (or is it still?) the only Lawless System I had ever seen in-game, that always catched my eye.
Unsure if we even have a truly "Lawless" Faction archetype in-game, with the sole exception of that former Bunda Controlling Faction maybe.
(or it was simply a bug lol)

PS.
Just for clarification : ELITE isn't a Sandbox, not by a far margin.
It would take at least half a year development to transform the "everything spawns from scratch and out of thin air" Arcade Scripts into a true, fully interconnected Sandbox.
Persistent NPCs, true Supply and Demand, NPC Activities and consequences without any Player watching them, true background simulation of the Galaxy incl. Population changes and organic Expansion into uninhabited Systems. That'd be a long way from here, could possibly require a full code refactoring.

Currently it merely holds a very few isolated Sandbox elements, the BGS being one of them.
 

Schmack

Schmack
When I was a kid all we needed was a stick and a ball and we had a horse, a space ship, a baseball game, guns, and a dinosaur egg.

No not really, we would have just fought with the stick and lost the ball.
 

Rat Catcher

Rat Catcher
Rats! I'm in that bottom left corner too..

My main character in-game was about to 'move' to an Anarchy system when the opportunity to leg it to Colonia (again) and join in with the 'fun' was brought up in a forum post (oddly, by Phisto :p ) and it took several seconds of thought before I offered to jump in with both feet.
My alt moved into an Anarchy system recently - and he's a bigger wuss than my main, because it just feels a better way to play, probably 'safer' than the 'safe' power systems - but maybe that is just me.
The game needs imagination from the player to keep attention, being offered it in shovel loads is just a win/win situation :)
 

Ian Skippy

Ian Skippy
Well, isn't this a merry little corner...
PjsoYS4.png

To me, the BGS is the background of the stage upon which I play whatever role I want. I've found that I always tend to gravitate towards anarchy systems; not so much out of a desire to murder, grief and plunder, but rather because I don't quite need a theocarcy, dictatorship or whatever other power structure to tell me what I can and cannot do. So it is Carcosa for me as well: a place where experienced and freedom-loving cmdrs can go about their business as far from the meddling superpowers as possible. :p
 

Midian Cabal

Midian Cabal
Melanthes said:
I'm constantly pirated by pirates, especially when I pirate myself. Sometimes I even get a bounty payout from the pirate faction, whose pirates tried to pirate me.;)
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Just... Wow. So if you don't pirate anyone before being pirated, you pirate... Yourself? Piracy obviously begets piracy and you must meed the forces of piracy with the power of love... Your aim must never be to defeat or humiliate a pirate, but to win his friendship and understanding.

The ultimate weakness of piracy is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy, instead of diminishing evil, it multiplies it. Through piracy you may murder the pirate, but you cannot murder the piracy, nor establish the truth. Through piracy you may murder the hater, but you do not murder hate. In fact, piracy merely increases hate.

Returning piracy for piracy multiplies piracy, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
 

Vasious

Vasious
Ian Doncaster said:
The use of Anarchy for the pirate-heavy systems dates back to the original Elite and its Cold War perspective on which governments were best.

The Cooperative government type introduced in Elite Dangerous is about as close as you can get to non-hierarchical (exactly what suffix they put on their anarcho- is hard to say) while still being able to count as a minor faction at all.
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Yeah, if Anarchies are supposed to be Criminals or pirates, due to the titles of their mission givers, faction names, and in game descriptions


Independent
Unfettered:​
This Group is known to have a distain for any laws outside its own attempts to govern its members behavior​
Federation
Rebel:​
A Faction that engages in activity that quite often places them at odds with members of the Federation Law Enforcement agencies​
Alliance
Freemen:​
A Group that refuses to recognize the legal construct as defined by the Alliance of Independent systems.​
Often, but not always, these groups act as a front for some organised criminal syndicate​
Empire
Rebel​
An organisation that is actively engaged in activity that goes against the Imperial status quo. Members openly defy Imperial law, although not all known associates are involved in criminal activity​

  • Enforcer
  • Veteran
  • Prospect
  • Associate
  • Lieutenant
  • Chief
And the Preponderances of the names such as
  • Raiders
  • Pirates
  • Camorra
  • Mafia
  • Drug Empire
  • Mob
  • Cartel
I wonder if the

  • Partnership
  • Groups
Represent more Co-operative or non Criminal groups, more just Deadwoodesque frontier systems
 

WinterKing2112

WinterKing2112
babelfisch said:
Great thread as usual.

Sadly no political discussions are allowed, I took your test and landed in the bottom left corner as well. I just wondered how anyone can manage to land somewhere else and if I want to live on the same planet with these guys?
Anyway, enough about real life politics.

I am not ready yet to help shaping an utopian galaxy since I want to engineer some ships first. Erst kommt das Fressen, dann die Moral. But I am not sure what I should do once I am ready. Problem is that the way anarchies are depicted in game doesn't do them justice. Anarchy doesn't necessarily mean the absence of order but the abscence of authority (since English is not my native language I am struggling to find the right words...). To make things worse, the only way to have an Anarchy in Elite is to have a controlling faction which is kind of contradictiory. Anarchy pretty much just means lawless in Elite.
Click to expand...
Your English is better than most native English speakers!
 

Phisto Sobanii

Phisto Sobanii
After reading through the thread I'd like to switch gears and propose a test! In the interest of fostering discussion and quality in-game roleplay let's each take the Political Compass test twice.

The first time consider yourself and the world we live in in 2019. The second time consider your Commander and the world they live in in 3304. After you're done, give it some thought, then post your results here with a few sentences about the difference.

Perhaps you choose to RP your Commander as someone totally different from you. Maybe you superimpose your own values onto the game in order to explore them more fully. Hell, maybe this is all new and weird to you! Even if you're not comfortable posting this information, chime in on what you see.

Link to test: https://www.politicalcompass.org/test

Here are my results.

chart

chart

Pretty big difference, I think! Why though? Based on my own reflections I think my Commander is focused on a very narrow range of issues. OOC I had strong reactions to nearly every question on the test because I have the luxuries of time and education to consider many of those questions. As a normal, everyday person my concerns are much more focused and personal. After all, it's a relatively peaceful, stable world I enjoy. IC the only strong reactions come to issues that directly affect whom he'd consider his family, his tribe, in a might makes right galaxy. Our lives couldn't be more different, really!

Additionally, my character regularly and without regret leverages violence to get what he wants. Thanks to the Pilots Federation, he enjoy enormous privilege and resources to do it. In fact, it's one of the more central hypocrisies of the character: railing against the powers that be while at the same time enjoying freedom and capabilities most can only dream of.

How does this shake out for you, dear reader? I'm excited to see.
 
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