General / Off-Topic One CMDR's perspective on the current state of the ED forums

[playfuldreamer]

You might need to consider, OP, that not everyone is as eloquent or able to construct arguments as well as you can. What might seem like attacks on Frontier to you could actually be the only way someone knows how to express their frustration or disappointment. This is why professional critique exists; not everyone is capable of expressing constructively why the feel a certain way about something. But just because they might be hard to read or seem like rants doesn't mean they don't deserve to be considered on their merits.

So let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater by suggesting we need some kind of complaints ghetto so we can keep the rest of the forum free of uncomfortable feelings. If you find yourself bothered by criticisms or poorly-expressed frustrating, you're welcome to avoid problematic thread titles.

 

[SpaceScania]

If the players words had a bit more impact then they might not feel so frustrated or pessimistic? That’s my opinion at least, because dev studios with great player communication practically never ever experience the toxicity which is present today on these forums.

I disagree here. Almost every gaming community seems to suffer from this problem and it seems to be getting worse. I started playing ED in 2015 and the game is much better now than it was then. But you know, none of that matters.

We can't control how Frontier will react to our feedback. What we can control is how we deliver it. Having said this, I guarantee you that Vindicator Jones' video on the Guardian ruins, or a well crafted post that is positive in tone but outlines specific problems will have a much bigger impact with Frontier than angry rants and attacks. There is totally no need to make it about us vs. them. It doesn't help anyone and it does kinda spoil this place for others.

You can even see it on Ed's face during streams sometimes. The attacks have an impact in not a good way and it shouldn't need to be that way.

 

[Ghostflux]

I think the major issue is that there are a lot of small things in Elite that just have an extremely bad implementation. Take wing missions for example, instead of separating them into a tab like passengers, they've decided to let them be displayed in the same pool as normal missions. The result is that users get less useful missions to work with, and it becomes harder to find the missions that you do want to take. It's just one of many examples that if a little bit of thought had gone into it, there wouldn't have been a problem to begin with.

The dissatisfaction probably comes from the disappointment that comes from the fact that they could have implemented it properly right away, but didn't. Instead now we're looking at them holding onto a fairly slow update schedule, only addressing a few of these smaller issues at a time. Big content updates are nice, but I'd actually love it if they'd bring patches that implement nothing incredibly content rich, but instead offer a long list of quality of life fixes.

 

[SpaceScania]

What might seem like attacks on Frontier to you could actually be the only way someone knows how to express their frustration or disappointment. This is why professional critique exists; not everyone is capable of expressing constructively why the feel a certain way about something. But just because they might be hard to read or seem like rants doesn't mean they don't deserve to be considered on their merits.

This is a really valid and interesting point. But perhaps everyone can help these ones to avoid making us vs. them attacks against Frontier and help to educate members of the forums on how to make more constructive arguments. I hate it when everyone gets cynical and stops trying to raise the level of the conversation even if at times it does seem like we are attacking windmills. I do think overall we as a community could be and should be better.

 

[DocPossible]

LOL! +1 rep.

I say that to my wife all the time.

xD. Mine just rolls her eyes these days when I'm hammering away on the laptop watching telly 'together', convincing myself that I'm winning hearts and minds with my latest stunning argument, devastating my opponents and changing minds to the one true path, whatever it is

 

[Stigbob]

People frequently ask why FDEV don't communicate with the forum more, and the answers simple it's all the histrionics and dev bashing.

Have a look around for personal attacks on DBOBE, Michael Brookes and Sandro. They don't talk to us because as a group we are being extremely unpleasant to them and about them. They couldn't compel any of their other employee's to communicate with us in case they get latched onto by little hate groups as well.

The OP's right there should be a moan zone and a zero tolerance policy for dumping threads into it.

 

[Mole HD]

As far as I was aware, Frontier pay a couple of folks to communicate with their customers via media such as this very forum, set up by Frontier for that very purpose. Can you see any input outside of the utter mundane from Frontier on this forum at all?

As far as I was also aware, those Community Managers are paid to be a window for us as players into the world of Frontier, purveyors of information regarding content and as a buffer for the Frontier developers should the community they are paid to manage be concerned/happy or just plain irritated at the perpetual wall of silence regarding this game or it's content on the very forum they set up to discuss it.

Suggesting that previously concerned, then mildly irritated and now angry fans of the game should somehow be 'hushed up' by herding the supposed dissenters into a forum version of the naughty step is almost as surreal as Frontier totally ignoring the playerbase of it's former flagship title in the first instance.

 

[lokvette]

I find scrolling past stuff I find negative works wonders for me. Dont like a thread dont read it, this forum also has an ignore thread function. No need to move them anywhere just let them die by not replying.

Have to agree tho VJ's take on the whole guardian thing was very well done.

 

[Lobey]

They like many companies seem to prefer to communicate via Twitter and facebook..... sadly.

 

[Chris Simon]

As far as I was aware, Frontier pay a couple of folks to communicate with their customers via media such as this very forum, set up by Frontier for that very purpose. Can you see any input outside of the utter mundane from Frontier on this forum at all?

As far as I was also aware, those Community Managers are paid to be a window for us as players into the world of Frontier, purveyors of information regarding content and as a buffer for the Frontier developers should the community be concerned/happy or just plain irritated at the perpetual wall of silence regarding this game or content on the forum they set up to discuss it.

Suggesting that previously concerned, then mildly irritated and now angry fans of the game should somehow be 'hushed up' by herding supposed dissenters into a forum version of the naughty step is almost as surreal as Frontier totally ignoring the playerbase of it's former flagship title in the first instance.

The only job of a community manager is to manage community, which simply means communicating info from the company to the community. The other way around is entirely voluntary and, to be honest, unnecessary.

Can you imagine a community manager telling the lead designer: "Hey, this guy on the forums has this idea and three other guys agree with him and only two are calling him names. We should definitely put it in the game."

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

My recent inquiries to the mod team have been met with silence and stonewalling, unfortunately.

Disappointing it was, in that I'm not one prone to hyperbole or attacks, and just asked a few honest questions.

Even if given a "proper" channel, it's useless if ignored.

 

[Factabulous]

Companies put in forums so the users can help each other and to reduce the load on the company - they cannot have 1 or more ppl per forum user to answer your questions - especially as many people will ignore the answer if they do not like it. And mods are for moderating, again their main job is not answering your important questions, it's moderating the forum.

I'm most depressed by the JWE forum already having many complainers, I was hoping that would be a more positive community, but it seems dinosaur owners are as diverse as space ship pilots in their wants.

 

[Chris Simon]

Companies put in forums so the users can help each other and to reduce the load on the company - they cannot have 1 or more ppl per forum user to answer your questions - especially as many people will ignore the answer if they do not like it. And mods are for moderating, again their main job is not answering your important questions, it's moderating the forum.

I'm most depressed by the JWE forum already having many complainers, I was hoping that would be a more positive community, but it seems dinosaur owners are as diverse as space ship pilots in their wants.

I have to say that JWE forum users are a big let-down for me as well. I really look forward to the game, but I basically ceased my activity there for the sheer negativity that spews from some people there. I'd say it's even much worse than Elite.

 

[Mole HD]

Companies put in forums so the users can help each other and to reduce the load on the company - they cannot have 1 or more ppl per forum user to answer your questions - especially as many people will ignore the answer if they do not like it. And mods are for moderating, again their main job is not answering your important questions, it's moderating the forum.

I'm most depressed by the JWE forum already having many complainers, I was hoping that would be a more positive community, but it seems dinosaur owners are as diverse as space ship pilots in their wants.

The forum moderators are not Frontier employees, just dedicated volunteers doing a thankless job. As I posted previously...community managers are paid to interact with the community...except in the case of Frontier Developments, they don't.

 

[Chris Simon]

The forum moderators are not Frontier employees, just dedicated volunteers doing a thankless job. As I posted previously...community managers are paid to interact with the community...except in this case, they don't.

They do. Only they don't interact with you the way you want.

 

[SpaceScania]

The forum moderators are not Frontier employees, just dedicated volunteers doing a thankless job. As I posted previously...community managers are paid to interact with the community...except in this case, they don't.

Sorry I totally disagree with this. Recently they are in a bit of a cone of silence with the move to new Frontier HQ, but the Q&A stream with Sandro and Ed just before the 3.0 launch was amazing. Even during the move Brett C is keeping everyone updated about faction applications. Sandro even posted an update today. This to me is a fundamentally untrue and unfair attack on the Frontier community team.

 

[Mole HD]

They do. Only they don't interact with you the way you want.

I can't ever recall an instance I ever required or expected a one to one interaction from any Frontier employee to any query or concern I've ever posted on this forum in over 3 years, you're suggesting a complete nonsense you made up to make a pointless argument.

Show me any interaction from the Frontier community managers over the current discussions over the Guardian site fiasco...or in fact any input from them regarding current discussion topics on the forum at all.

There is none, that's what I'm suggesting, not a hand holding expedition of Frontier employees bearing gold frankincense and myrrh to wipe my fevered brow.

Sorry I totally disagree with this. Recently they are in a bit of a cone of silence with the move to new Frontier HQ, but the Q&A stream with Sandro and Ed just before the 3.0 launch was amazing. Even during the move Brett C is keeping everyone updated about faction applications. Sandro even posted an update today. This to me is a fundamentally untrue and unfair attack on the Frontier community team.

Attacking who now? I stated a plain fact whilst calmly drinking my coffee...don't read injured inflection into a post where there was none.

 

[Chris Simon]

I can't ever recall an instance I ever required or expected a one to one interaction from any Frontier employee to any query or concern I've ever posted on this forum in over 3 years, you're suggesting a complete nonsense you made up to make a pointless argument.

Show me any interaction from the Frontier community managers over the current discussions over the Guardian site fiasco...or in fact any input from them regarding current discussion on the forum at all.

There is none, that's what I'm suggesting, not a hand holding expedition of Frontier employees bearing gold frankincense and myrrh to wipe my fevered brow.

"One to one interaction"? I'm sorry, but your idea of how a company communicates with their customer base is seriously misguided.

The only "one to one" they are obligated to do is the customer service and help line and Elite customer service is one of the best in gaming industry.

 

[SpaceScania]

Show me any interaction from the Frontier community managers over the current discussions over the Guardian site fiasco...or in fact any input from them regarding current discussion on the forum at all.

No Frontier haven’t commented on that specifically. They probably won’t say a lot they know that this new content was not well recieved. There will obviously be changes, we’ll just have to wait and see how those changes pan out.

Lol, I don’t think anyone likes the way the new guardian content was rolled out. Everyone knows Frontier scored a bit of an own goal on that one.

Attacking who now? I stated a plain fact whilst calmly drinking my coffee...don't read injured inflection into a post where there was none.

It seemed like you were making a more general assertion that the community team doesn’t do their job. I strongly disagree with that. However, if you are merely referring to a lack of discussion from Frontier on the recent new Guardian content then I apologize. But yeah, the timing is unfortunate as they moved to their new HQ and obviously are also working on 3.1.

I think livestreams resume next week so it will be very interesting to see what they have to say.

 

[Mole HD]

"One to one interaction"? I'm sorry, but your idea of how a company communicates with their customer base is seriously misguided.

The only "one to one" they are obligated to do is the customer service and help line and Elite customer service is one of the best in gaming industry.

...and...you're still talking complete and utter nonsense from reading something you purely imagined into my posts by quoting one phrase completely out of context. I'll make sure you're officially promoted to Beige Squadron for trying a forum newbie trick like that one...

No Frontier haven’t commented on that specifically. They probably won’t say a lot they know that this new content was not well recieved. There will obviously be changes, we’ll just have to wait and see how those changes pan out.

Lol, I don’t think anyone likes the way the new guardian content was rolled out. Everyone knows Frontier scored a bit of an own goal on that one.
It seemed like you were making a more general assertion that the community team doesn’t do their job. I strongly disagree with that. However, if you are merely referring to a lack of discussion from Frontier on the recent new Guardian content then I apologize. But yeah, the timing is unfortunate as they moved to their new HQ and obviously are also working on 3.1.

I think livestreams resume next week so it will be very interesting to see what they have to say.

Thanks for getting my point and meaning behind the post MegaNerd... I merely suggested that any input from the community managers on current topics (rather than the ever optimistic approach of livestream when things are always rosy) might have dissipated this revolving door of dissent by simply communicating...that's what community managers do, they're not involved with the programming or Dev work at all.