One step closer to birds for 2024

[Milurian]

Whilst I am also doubtful we’ll get much more in the way of birds (a few more at best), for me the reason this is so annoying is precisely that no new mechanics are needed.
First, and most obviously, waking birds like cranes and flamingos have always been in-game as have mostly ground dwelling birds like peafowl. Those groups alone would provide ample options for multiple dedicated bird animal packs. Add to those aquatic birds like the swan and there are literally dozens of great options.
Second, walk though exhibits (and even standard exhibits) would work perfectly well for dozens more species of flying birds like finches, hummingbirds, and many, many more.
Third, even free-navigating flying habitat birds wouldn’t require anything new - all deep diving species in-game can navigate in 3d and habitats can already be built with ceilings to prevent escapes (though, perhaps an aviary cage set of build pieces might make this easier for many people.
There is no need at all for new mechanics - plenty of bird species (numbering, literally in the hundreds) could be added using only the mechanics we already have in-game… they just haven’t been.

I mostly agree to all except your last point there are a couple of major issues with free flying. 1 major one is ui how will they represent traversable area a 3d blue blob will be very hard to read and they will have to rework the ui to appropriately show what is accessible to the animals. Another major one is how to control for when a flying animal can escape their cage and suddenly the game has a super large and expansive habitat which impact performance incredibly. Also I have no idea if we currently have one but they will need to add a world height limit.

Unpopular opinion: an only bird pack isn't going to sell great.


People have been asking for them forever but look at the reactions to the diverse packs we have now with a wide array of animals. People are saying there is nothing unique in the Eurasia pack or that the animals are boring even? Now imagine getting a bunch of birds that are mostly static or looped. I can imagine the backlash to that. I think they'd just be better off adding one to each DLC.

That is because to the average person the pack is boring if someone knew nothing about animals the sloth bear, wisent and to some extent the takin and saiga are the same thing as animals from the base game. The swan and boar are also boring to alot of people because its what ill call a basic animal where they are so common for people to see in the wild they dont think they are zoo worthy and the tortoise is in the box of shame. The roster is good the wisent represents a great conservation story is a new better looking bison and provides some much need representation to europe. The sloth bear is great visually but that is it, most of its available zoo niches are already taken by the 4 other asian bears. The takin is great only if you pay attention to it on visuals alone its just another cow like animal to most people the second people realise it is actually able to climb rocks it becomes slightly more interesting and useful and is great for building a mountainous area. The only thing the saiga did was confuse the casuals who had no idea what it was and out right enrage the hardcore realism players with no majorly unique features to get the casuals to fall in love with it. The boar came out too close to the peccary so it fell flat since it doesnt seem as diverse anymore.

I am by no means calling the pack bad there has been a desire for each of the animals in the pack and they are all good, practical additions maybe they are just boring picks containing mostly filler animals or adding regional diversity.

This pack is objectively not diverse since half the pack is even toed ungulates an order of mammals that has been heavily represented in just about every pack just because it has a swan doesnt make the pack instantly extremely diversity.

To the point that an all birds pack wont sell well I agree generally an all (insert taxonomic rank) pack wont sell well birds is such a large group we have had multiple all mammal packs in the past like arctic, south america and conservation to name a few. This seemingly does not impact the packs value too much on top of this birds are one of the few taxonomic groups that it is common for people to have lots of knowledge on, bird watching is a huge thing especially in the western world so many people would be able to appreciate bird diversity better than mammalian diversity.

There's a middle ground for bird inclusion, if we ever get them.

Small, loud, colorful, "flock-y" birds could pass as exhibit animals. In zoos they constantly flutter around and perch in groups. They don't need as much space. Parrots and everything smaller.

However I can't see inclusion Birds of Prey any other way than them being habitat animals. They don't fly as often, nor are they as active in general. They're usually not housed in larger groups, therefore looping would be much more noticeable. And they need bigger space.

I know you did not just call the walkthrough exhibits too small those things are huge definitely big enough for birds of prey either way there is precedent for modular equipment now so that may happen.

The WTE is about as large or larger than most bird of prey exhibits I've seen IRL. Even for Steller's sea eagle, which is a veritable giant.

In any event I disagree with your logic entirely. If we can stomach small lizards and spiders sitting in position then there's no reason to think it wouldn't work for large birds.

The thing is I cant stomach the lizards and spiders I hate the cursed basic exhibit box with every fibre of my being but lopped animations in the WTE I have no problem with I think they are done quite well because unless you staring at them for a long time its not noticeable so birds under these conditions would be perfectly fine.

 

[NZFanatic]

birds under these conditions would be perfectly fine.

Birds don't actually do much. They certainly don't fly around as much as the bats and butterflies. Most charismatic bird species in captivity are typically perched up, eating, or playing with toys. Birds of prey tend to park up in one spot the whole day and only move to eat. Honestly it's very comparable to the current exhibit boxes in terms of technical necessity. In any event it's likely a moot point. The modular gift shop is not a hint towards modular aviaries.

 

[Markiz]

I know you did not just call the walkthrough exhibits too small those things are huge definitely big enough for birds of prey either way there is precedent for modular equipment now so that may hahappen.

I expanded on what I meant in other comment, but basically it boils down to what we expect of certain type of birds in game.

As I said before I wouldn't like birds of prey (big ones to be exact, Condors, Eagle Owls, Sea Eagles) in game if they plan to implant them realistically. As in perched 99% of the time. We make compromise for Sloth and Reptiles becaue they have nothing else to offer. While big birds would be missing defining part of their behaviour.

I can't see, for example, Stellers Sea Eagle soar in that exhibit, and it not being the one same loop, however big it looks. While the smaller birds can fly in many directions in that same box.

 

[NZFanatic]

I can't see, for example, Stellers Sea Eagle soar in that exhibit

Mate, you wouldn't see it "soar" outside of a trained bird show in a zoo either.

 

[Markiz]

Mate, you wouldn't see it "soar" outside of a trained bird show in a zoo either.

Sure soar might be too extreme of an example, I got carried away

But I want to see my Eagles fly places, in different directions, WTEs are narrow and confined. I want to make dynamic habitats, for animals that can offer more than they do in zoos. Lions and Bears also don't sprint and jog in zoos either.

 

[Milurian]

Birds don't actually do much. They certainly don't fly around as much as the bats and butterflies. Most charismatic bird species in captivity are typically perched up, eating, or playing with toys. Birds of prey tend to park up in one spot the whole day and only move to eat. Honestly it's very comparable to the current exhibit boxes in terms of technical necessity. In any event it's likely a moot point. The modular gift shop is not a hint towards modular aviaries.

I was agreeing with you birds are perfectly fine with looped animations.
I also dont think the modular gift shops mean anything it was more based on the other comment being about the WTE being too small for the birds which is a non issue that if it truly was something to worry about it could be fixed with making them modular.

 

[Milurian]

I expanded on what I meant in other comment, but basically it boils down to what we expect of certain type of birds in game.

As I said before I wouldn't like birds of prey (big ones to be exact, Condors, Eagle Owls, Sea Eagles) in game if they plan to implant them realistically. As in perched 99% of the time. We make compromise for Sloth and Reptiles becaue they have nothing else to offer. While big birds would be missing defining part of their behaviour.

I can't see, for example, Stellers Sea Eagle soar in that exhibit, and it not being the one same loop, however big it looks. While the smaller birds can fly in many directions in that same box.

Some birds of prey wont work sure but owls, condors and most eagles are definitely kept in smaller exhibits in reality.

 

[Colehunter35]

The modular gift shop is not a hint towards modular aviaries.

Well I mean, there is always a chance, however small it is

 

[Colehunter35]

Lions and Bears also don't sprint and jog in zoos either.

You should see Tundra and Banks at the Lake Superior Zoo lol. The amount of times i have seen those two brother brawl in the underwater viewing

 

[Markiz]

Some birds of prey wont work sure but owls, condors and most eagles are definitely kept in smaller exhibits in reality.

I know they are

What I've been saying is that I wouldn't like that in a game. Because other habitat animals aren't treated as they are in irl zoos both habitat and behavior wise.

 

[Colehunter35]

I know they are

What I've been saying is that I wouldn't like that in a game. Because other habitat animals aren't treated as they are in irl zoos both habitat and behavior wise.

Part of a sandbox zoo game, is that you can do whatever you want (within reason)

 

[NZFanatic]

Well I mean, there is always a chance, however small it is

Not really. When has Feature A ever been a hint towards Feature B in the lifespan of this game?

Bird Cope is becoming a disease. Literally since before the Arctic Pack this community has been utterly convinced birds are the next thing coming.

 

[Colehunter35]

Not really. When has Feature A ever been a hint towards Feature B in the lifespan of this game?

Bird Cope is becoming a disease. Literally since before the Arctic Pack this community has been utterly convinced birds are the next thing coming.

I'm not even a bird person, frankly i dont care, it would be nice to get them. Still there could be a chance, a little optimism never hurt anyone

 

[NZFanatic]

a little optimism never hurt anyone

It...frequently does. Throughout the four years of this game I have seen countless times people setting themselves up for disappointment, then rampaging about it. It's less common now, granted, but I tend to assume that's because, in general, people aren't actually as hopelessly optimistic as they used to be about certain features.

 

[Colehunter35]

It...frequently does. Throughout the four years of this game I have seen countless times people setting themselves up for disappointment, then rampaging about it. It's less common now, granted, but I tend to assume that's because, in general, people aren't actually as hopelessly optimistic as they used to be about certain features.

yeah i understand that. I think birds would be awesome, but don't really think they are coming any time soon. I'm more than sure frontier could do it, they just need time to hammer it out

 

[NZFanatic]

but don't really think they are coming any time soon.

Probably in 5-10 years when PZ2 eventually drops.

 

[Milurian]

What I've been saying is that I wouldn't like that in a game. Because other habitat animals aren't treated as they are in irl zoos both habitat and behavior wise.

Im not sure I understand your point at all

 

[Milurian]

a little optimism never hurt anyone

Tell that to the bird mob that has formed in any post frontier makes about planet zoo unchecked optimism creates an echo chamber where you condition yourself to believe nothing but hopes and dreams

 

[CharlieXGaming]

Im not sure I understand your point at all

If I may chime in here, with habitat animals a player can build a giant luxury enclosure for a lion or treat it like a poor zoo and have it in a smaller enclosure. Birds should have that same freedom, for the player to make a huge aviary or a small one, a player shouldn't be forced to house it in a small area, especially when we've waited this long for flying birds if we even see them.

 

[Colehunter35]

Tell that to the bird mob that has formed in any post frontier makes about planet zoo unchecked optimism creates an echo chamber where you condition yourself to believe nothing but hopes and dreams

that's why i specified "a little", cuz there are some people who get a little too optimistic and believe whatever they are hoping for is guarantied to come