Modes Open mode balancing proposal

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No.
It is just while Fdev cannot and shouldn't shadowban players with consistently bad connection, they can revoke their participation in some PvP mode and bonuses.

But many PVP players can, and have, wrecked other PVP players participation with utterly trivial means.

It's not something easily fixed.

I don't think it's a good thing, but with all the pew-pew scrubs saying "git gud", I absolutely do find that hardly any of them ever gitted gud enough to stop whining about it :D


As for banning players with bad connections - that would simply become the new meta.
 
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All progression in ED is a chore if you want to take part in PvP activities. As you have to make absurd amount of trial and error due to extreme rock-paper-scissors balance and overall state of it, and absence PvP brackets which leads to PvP requiring exactly min-maxed top-grade ships.
At least PvE players have a variety of torpedoes to use. And all of this is deep on the same level as weight of 8A sensors.

Even with all the exploits, I had spent around 500 hrs for trial and error. So you would ask me to take my time instead and begin PvPing about a year later?:D

Still, I had never left Open untill after Python.

It's really sad that combat capability is so dependent on progression. It's not even progression after a while, it's just going in circles.
Rock-paper-scissors balancing has no place in a game like ED. It belongs in games where you can have a large group of players with different roles, in one instance.
The absurd bonus you get for specializing and grinding, contributes to the build > skill balancing.
 
Dropping peer to peer connections while retaining the transaction server one is, although simple, is not so trivial task. Moreover, there can be automated processes to evaluate a number of CMDRs in system, with whom one player can and should establish a connection but somehow does not.

And again, neither of this outweighs the good Open incentifying would bring.

In YOUR opinion incentifying open would be a good thing, this is not a shared opinion. Most importantly FD do not agree, they are the people you must convince, not us and they have shown no willingness to incentivise open or to re-write the net code to accommodate large scale pvp.
 
Like.. I am truly lost in the smoke you are producing...

I though I do know quite a bit about hardcore games - yet some roleplay persons want to prove me otherwise...

And, despite you derailing it somewhere yet again - nothing you said provides valid arguments against risk premiums.
Exept that "all modes are equal" stuff, which is just utter nonsense, and which people contradict here in the next post after they had stated that.



Or something like this. Like... really? And the same person talks about trolling at the same post?
So I indeed do require some appropriate terms. This is useless to simply reason against those kinds of arguments.


You say I am trolling and talk about how you know hardcore games... Do you whine on Fallout when you forget to sleep on Survivor mode and you die and all your progress is lost? Because that is how you are acting here while at the same that you want hardcore you try to justify your bailing on Open because "everyone else is doing it". Your whole argument is vaporware...
 
Once you have understood this, it should be clear by now that there will always be a certain disparity between those who are using UPnP (the most trivial but also most risky solution) or port forwarding (a bit more "twiddling" solution) and those who are using conservative but secure standard settings. Statistically, the former will always have a higher probability to meet other players because he will never need a host in any given instance, cause he always will be the host (if no others with these settings are available).

Or the other way around, those running conservative (but safer) router settings will always have an inherent advantage - if you still consider flying in Open as a generic disadvantage that has to be "balanced", as you never hesitate to point out.

It was nice of you to start a conversation on technical aspects on Friday evening...

I understand those concerns. And I had given them a good thought last time you shared them.

Again, the bottom line is - as long as there are people which are eligible to be hosts, this risk does not go anywhere.
And Fdev already has means to check your internet connection setting - so I am sure it can make enabling either UPnP or port forwarding as a requirement for again, optional "game mode".

So those risks will not go anywhere. And even if the internet will be full of guides how to minimize the probability of meeting other people - there still won't be any 100% solution. I do not have exact figures on used types of connection setups, and I am not sure if it would even do anything. And when one side would try to minimize said probability - the other side would start to maximize it.
And we are talking money here. It is not worth to even covering up direct Artmoney cheating (dunno if it is covered even). What is there to say about probabilities? Again, we are talking about 1-5%. That is 1-5 mil from each 100...

And, by the way, abandoning this bonus mode would be the first course of action, rather than trying to cheat, as long as it would be vaguely forbidden by Fdev...

Disbalance would still be present, unfortunately. But the situation will be better overall. No government hesitates to stimulate some part of an economy because of fears that too much enterprises would start to pose as stimulated ones.

And client-server structure for SC movement will not make it worse than it is now. And we have matchmaking server in place already, so it would require only some tweaks in the output of it.
For other types of movement, there is no better solution than PnP. Still, some sort of dynamic distribution on servers would be acceptable. I do not remember flight model in Plantetside2 being lacking.

But many PVP players can, and have, wrecked other PVP players participation with utterly trivial means.

It's not something easily fixed.

I don't think it's a good thing, but with all the pew-pew scrubs saying "git gud", I absolutely do find that hardly any of them ever gitted gud enough to stop whining about it :D


As for banning players with bad connections - that would simply become the new meta.

I agree, the fix is not easy - yet is it impossible to detect in real time if the connection was interrupted one node after the user, or relatively close to him route-wise?
Leaving those types of connection losses unpunishable is an option as well.


You say I am trolling and talk about how you know hardcore games... Do you whine on Fallout when you forget to sleep on Survivor mode and you die and all your progress is lost? Because that is how you are acting here while at the same that you want hardcore you try to justify your bailing on Open because "everyone else is doing it". Your whole argument is vaporware...

You do not switch from Survivor to Casual in 6 seconds (without a console, ofc). And remember that in ED no matter which difficulty settings, everyone is on the same "scoreboard", with the same scores, and with the same rights.
It is a truly remarkable situation when increasing difficulty can only lead to worse scores.
 
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It's really sad that combat capability is so dependent on progression. It's not even progression after a while, it's just going in circles.
Rock-paper-scissors balancing has no place in a game like ED. It belongs in games where you can have a large group of players with different roles, in one instance.
The absurd bonus you get for specializing and grinding, contributes to the build > skill balancing.

And no interchangeabitiy makes it way worse. Engineering should really be some sort of gun or ship p0 rn instead of "enchanting".
So instead of remaking whole module from scratch, people could only change some parts. I would be fine even with unrealistic situation where plasma barrels would fit multicannons.
Speaking of the latter... All mods there are either barrel or ammo ones...

Not to even say that unmodded modules should be really a mid-range performance. Instead of being totally irrelevant.
 
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You do not switch from Survivor to Casual in 6 seconds (without a console, ofc). And remember that in ED no matter which difficulty settings, everyone is on the same "scoreboard", with the same scores, and with the same rights.
It is a truly remarkable situation when increasing difficulty can only lead to worse scores.


One... it is easy to switch from survivor to Casual, you just start a new game. If you can't handle the first (as you can't) you switch to the second (which you have admitted to doing).

Second... There is no score in the game, how can anything lead to a "worse score" when it doesn't exist in the first place. There are ranks anyone can achieve and no penalty for doing it a certain way or taking your own sweet time.

If you create a "scoring system" and assume a level of "risk" that YOU use for what ever arbitrary reason... that is on you. Not the game, not the P2P network set up, not other players, just you. If you are going to complain about it complain to yourself.


And Read what Pi and others are saying because you are seemingly blatantly closing your eyes, sticking your fingers in your ears and sounding like the chorus of this song.

[video=youtube;9uaL2yFtoVo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uaL2yFtoVo[/video]
 
One... it is easy to switch from survivor to Casual, you just start a new game. If you can't handle the first (as you can't) you switch to the second (which you have admitted to doing).

Second... There is no score in the game, how can anything lead to a "worse score" when it doesn't exist in the first place. There are ranks anyone can achieve and no penalty for doing it a certain way or taking your own sweet time.

If you create a "scoring system" and assume a level of "risk" that YOU use for what ever arbitrary reason... that is on you. Not the game, not the P2P network set up, not other players, just you. If you are going to complain about it complain to yourself.


And Read what Pi and others are saying because you are seemingly blatantly closing your eyes, sticking your fingers in your ears and sounding like the chorus of this song.


Firstly, technical aspects somehow were not an obstacle enough for Fdev employee to start similar proposition himself. So technical questions are not up to us really.


Secondly, a lot of smoke from you as usual. You mix up things which I am saying, not I am doing it.

Look, I know you lost your Mammoth in a high-sec to evil evil gankers. And somehow they were not divinely punished.
And this should have nothing to do with people which are able to not overreact on their losses and are ok with playing while having possibility of such.
 
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Firstly, technical aspects somehow were not an obstacle enough for Fdev employee to start similar proposition himself. So technical questions are not up to us really.


Secondly, a lot of smoke from you as usual. You mix up things which I am saying, not I am doing it.

Look, I know you lost your Mammoth in a high-sec to evil evil gankers. And somehow they were not divinely punished.
And this should have nothing to do with people which are able to not overreact on their losses and are ok with playing while having possibility of such.

You seem to have forgotten that the frontier employee dropped the idea a week after saying it.

Funny how you guys ignore that bit.
 

Firstly, technical aspects somehow were not an obstacle enough for Fdev employee to start similar proposition himself. So technical questions are not up to us really.


Secondly, a lot of smoke from you as usual. You mix up things which I am saying, not I am doing it.

Look, I know you lost your Mammoth in a high-sec to evil evil gankers. And somehow they were not divinely punished.
And this should have nothing to do with people which are able to not overreact on their losses and are ok with playing while having possibility of such.


Edge come on... the only smoke is what you and 90's keep trying to blow up everyone else's hind end. You are saying there is a lot of smoke from me because you know that your argument is no longer viable and you keep trying to deflect from it to attacks (hence why you formally asked Mods what insults you can call myself and others who disagree with you since they frown on the one you decided we were).

As for your crack on me about EVE... yes that happened... I didn't overreact but what ever. That you think I did shows you don't understand what happened, most people who don't have to deal with such things don't understand.

I find it interesting that you bring it up cause you feel that should have nothing to do with ED yet keep trying to force WOW crap onto ED. And you also know what? I have never tried to stop people from playing in Open, I actually want people to play in Open, I even want PVP to mean something more in Open, but you shoot my proposal down because you do not like that it doesn't take from the other modes and make Open the Go-to mode.

I am also not the one wanting "hardcore" in one hand and complaining that there are not incentives to try and bait people to Open in the other. If it is too hard for you right now without unbalancing the modes then it isn't going to change if Open got what you want. The only difference is the balance that Fdev promised would be gone and one mode would no longer be equal to the others. Currently the ONLY difference is preference on how you want to play... not increased exp, rewards, etc.. Some say carriers won't be in solo... that is a multi player aspect anyways so why would they. They still don't unbalance the game nor make it unequal.


As for your first comment, if it is the proposition I think it was... he backtracked on it later. So take that for what it is... and he wasn't Braden. IF you need help go reread Jockey's wall.
 
Edge come on... the only smoke is what you and 90's keep trying to blow up everyone else's hind end. You are saying there is a lot of smoke from me because you know that your argument is no longer viable and you keep trying to deflect from it to attacks (hence why you formally asked Mods what insults you can call myself and others who disagree with you since they frown on the one you decided we were).

As for your crack on me about EVE... yes that happened... I didn't overreact but what ever. That you think I did shows you don't understand what happened, most people who don't have to deal with such things don't understand.

I find it interesting that you bring it up cause you feel that should have nothing to do with ED yet keep trying to force WOW crap onto ED. And you also know what? I have never tried to stop people from playing in Open, I actually want people to play in Open, I even want PVP to mean something more in Open, but you shoot my proposal down because you do not like that it doesn't take from the other modes and make Open the Go-to mode.

I am also not the one wanting "hardcore" in one hand and complaining that there are not incentives to try and bait people to Open in the other. If it is too hard for you right now without unbalancing the modes then it isn't going to change if Open got what you want. The only difference is the balance that Fdev promised would be gone and one mode would no longer be equal to the others. Currently the ONLY difference is preference on how you want to play... not increased exp, rewards, etc.. Some say carriers won't be in solo... that is a multi player aspect anyways so why would they. They still don't unbalance the game nor make it unequal.


As for your first comment, if it is the proposition I think it was... he backtracked on it later. So take that for what it is... and he wasn't Braden. IF you need help go reread Jockey's wall.

Jesus dude take a break lol.
 
Why do you keep confusing people with deities? And why would I need a break? I'm not one of the ones foaming at the mouth all rabid for changing the game and screwing others because of my personal preference.

You are doing exactly that, but for preservation of unbalanced status quo.
 
You are doing exactly that, but for preservation of unbalanced status quo.


Horse crap and you know it, but by claiming I am doing that you can continue to push your agenda... If you think Fdev is so horrible and the game so unbalanced, then go make your own game. Borrow as much of EVE and WOW as you want and make the utopian hardcore game you keep trying to change Elite Dangerous into. Elite Dangerous is set up for a myriad of types of players... you only care about one type. That is why I am here, that is why I speak out, not because of the "status quo". If I wanted the status quo I would speak out against changes Fdev is making in the game. I would want ED to just stay exactly as it was at Kickstarter... but I don't. So try again.
 

Goose4291

Banned
Hazard pay is indeed a thing - and construction workers that actually work at height will probably get paid more for actually working at height.

How that compares to playing in Open where one might, or might not, encounter another player is not clear.

I'd have thought it compared quite easily, if you want to continue down the silly real world analogies.

Construction Workers who work at height are paid more for working at height, where they might or might not fall.
 
I'd have thought it compared quite easily, if you want to continue down the silly real world analogies.

Construction Workers who work at height are paid more for working at height, where they might or might not fall.


Mountain climbers are given the choice of difference ascents up the mountain. The type of ascent is up to them with no "reward" for doing it. That is the same as the mode systems... and if you want to talk about the "silliness" of real world analogies you may want to talk to Edgy... A trend I see with the "selective criticism" is that it seems you and others don't say anything about him doing them, but if others reply to them with them then they are silly and such...
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
I'd have thought it compared quite easily, if you want to continue down the silly real world analogies.

Construction Workers who work at height are paid more for working at height, where they might or might not fall.

Indeed.

.... and when they are not working at height?
 
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