Do you have an example of the kind of meaning/value you're imagining?
Open-Only in PP2.0?
- Thread starter August Lagrange
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SRV CQC? Now that could be fun! Do you take the Scarab or the Scorpion?
Ohhh, they don't have a Hotel California thread over on Spectrum, but they certainly are a bazillion threads on the topic of PvP and has been for months now. A lot of the same arguments back and forth we see here as well, minus the BGS/PP stuff, since SC doesn't have anything like that. Statements from the devs used against each other, kickstarter goals quoted and misquoted, name calling, etc. Its all good fun to read.
Doubt anyone is doing large scale PvP battles in SC at the moment though since the game can and will usually kill people with a bug before everyone can organize
I tend to disagree, the folks that want Open Only are interested in just that, there is no other reason, if you want to meet folks for fun with no PvP just join Mobius.
O7
Yep it's a bit of a mess.
There have been many over the years. It's a lot of fun that you can't get anywhere else. But the ratio of time spent preparing to the time spent having fun is really bad. Bugs preventing people from playing is something you'd have to take into account when planning. A lot of the preparation is actually done ahead of time by staging your ships/assets in highly contested areas.Doubt anyone is doing large scale PvP battles in SC at the moment though since the game can and will usually kill people with a bug before everyone can organize
This is something I was hoping to spark more conversation around because based off our current rewards.... it does make us question what even has value anymore? There's several routes and underlying issues connected too. We resolved one issue of balance by allowing all powers to provide the same modules, just in different order which is a good way to encourage this choice of who you pledge to without outright gating available parts. When you look at other rewards they all share, eventually you'll always have free rebuys via your own systems and via killed by opposing powers, so this element is also shared and the intention I get behind this is incentive to pvp enemy factions for your power since they're willing to pay for your ship if you do fail right? So all that leaves is the powers unique benefits themselves which is where the structure starts to crumble.
Someone who enjoyed piracy would normally pledge to Archon Delaine for example because he allows you more benefits to trading to black markets doing illegal work and reducing the consequences of being a pirate overall with the -100% bounties placed on your head in your power's controlled systems. I use him as an example because there's 1 particular benefit that DOES encourage taking more systems and that's the latter half there. The more systems you take, the more freedom you have to be a thief/pirate wherever without as many consequences. So this power makes sense, there's incentive to broaden your freedom to do illegal activities, but piracy in itself isn't lucrative or do anything currently.... so no one cares about this to begin with. No one cares about smuggling, black market sales, or stealing from other ships because the lack of social interaction to begin with and how credits have lost value due to lack of credit sinks and an abundance of methods to gain credits very easily.
Another example we have is how many powers have too similar of aspects to their power's benefits like bonuses to bounty hunting, trade, exploration, reductions in costs... these would normally at some point would've had meaning because credits were HARD to get at one point. Our result now is powers offering benefits that hold little meaning in the grand scheme and now people pledge to powers that have the most benefits (or because RP or waifus at this rate, looking at you Aisling Duval only offering rescue pay bonuses and minor faction reputation gain).
I can't honestly give a solution myself because the question remains to be asked, "what do players value?" that the powers could provide. We can't say credits anymore, it's too fargone to use credits alone as an example. Merits are a good self motivator given to you just for doing weeklies and general power tasks to get new modules and benefits but they're nothing that affects other players realistically once you're done or even if you choose not to do them at all. This tells me there needs to either be a rework in the structure of the game so credits are more valuable again, or a new form of currency on the side you can gain that gives you other side grades or something else that has value/meaning, or the power system as a whole needs to be reduced or considered what is affected. This is going to come down to what we and the devs would like to see going forward as there's still plenty of options but we have to think critically about what it means moving forward. Do we get increased security with our power so now dying to PVE scans is an actual threat because you're in a system that's hostile? Do we get unique ships only from X power that do X thing for powers particularly? Does the power dictate more of an action or unlocking an ability to do something you normally can't do like bounties now display within X radius, miners with X amoutn of cargo taken up show now in spaces under your power? Trade ships now get immediate support when interdicted? There's tons of "rewards" or "repercussions" that could be added just for the sake of adding them but what encourages someone to take more systems or protect what they have currently?
TL;DR: Do we fix broken systems to try and make this work, or do we add different systems to try and bandage an ever present issue? I'm open to ideas here as well.
I'm sorry but I'm not your "folks" so you can't really assume what I want. I cna instead tell you I do want to see both PVP and PVE concepts and organic social concepts in a multiplayer setting. Whether you believe that or not is your own deal. Again, we were done a while ago. I'm not joining a bandage to an overall problem at the core of the game. I want the good and the bad, I want the consequences so my gameplay isn't a cakewalk. I want to have to find other players to work toward a goal because I NEED them, not because "I can just because". Illusion of choice is the problem here.
I think the scorpion is an odyssey thing and I don't have odyssey. It would be a good excuse to end my "VR Player Boycott"
Powers provide credits, modules, and bonuses to activities that people enjoy doing. All of these have value to players.
Credits still have value because they help pay for passive money sinks like fleet carriers. The costs of my carrier are technically covered for a few years but if I didn't make any credits along the way my balance would be reduced to zero. So if I can knock out 25 million per week doing some random activity I can always break even. Think of credits more like fuel; easy to get, easy to maintain, but if you completely ignore it you'll run out.
Also not everyone is a billionaire.
You keep referring to this abstract notion "value/meaning". I'm trying to understand what you mean by this.
Value is tied to progression. I recently picked up a Cobra MK V and engineered it for exploration. During this time materials had value to me. I traded the materials I had and sought out the materials I didn't have. When I was finished with engineering the materials didn't have value to me anymore. When I decide to engineer a ship again then materials will have value to me again.
Meaning is entirely subjective and contextual. For me the meaning is to relax and have fun. Sometimes that means exploration. Sometimes that means going on a murderhobo rampage and nuking random players (then dealing with notoriety 10 and a 500 million bounty).
That would just be annoying.
We already had this with power exclusive modules and it was annoying.
What you're basically asking for is more game features which are gated by Power Play interaction.
For example, showing "miners with X cargo" would be a new piracy feature. And engaging with Power Play would unlock this feature. The problem is that some days I'm in the mood for piracy and other days I'm in the mood for mining. It'd be really annoying if I had to do a bunch of busywork every time I wanted to use these features.
Powers give you everything you already can get via other means and more easily with bonuses that don't actively matter to anything when you're alone in the galaxy. The value of these is VERRRRRRY minimal. I can't say "worthless" because that'd be factually incorrect and this forum likes to "uhm acktually" a lot but they are pretty much irrelevant as they stand right now and once you've obtained the benefits, there's no reason to continue aqcuiring them after. Again, I'm open to be wrong here and would love to hear an argument as to how the benefits actually make a difference in gameplay because everything I find has a substitute that makes them not really matter.
You've got me there on the passive payment for fleet carriers but not everyone wants a fleet carrier or needs one. So this one while beneficial to the design of the game by having a reason to keep earning credits.... can ultimately fall under "doesn't affect others". It's not enough on its own and as you said, you're covered for a few Y E A R S.
Not everyone is a billionaire no but there's very simple ways to become one within just a couple of days and that's a problem.
Youv'e answered what you're asking in the sentence here "when I finished engineering the materials didn't have value to me anymore". That's right, it ends there and if you have what you consider the best exploration ship and complete this... where does the next value come from? What's your next milestone to progress, improve your ship, or do something else that would give value to these materials again? I'm asking you right now as a lil homework assignment(again I'm not trying to be facetious here), follow that train and see where it ends. Does it loop around? Does it continue or incentivize you to play with others or keep playing? When you've said and done all there is, having every ship, engineered to the brim(which why would you, just get the best ship for each category and engineer it, not everyone is a completionist so this is a variable)... once you've completed that initial loop, what do you have to look forward to alone in the galaxy?
Let's use another example as you mentioned, sometimes it means relaxing and exploring... fair enough, you personally need credits to fund your fleet carrier (beyond the years you already have it funded for) and sometimes you want some action so you look for players to nuke... though, what's the point in that if you can do this to PVE enemies anyways? Just to grief them and make them spend money? If you're nuking them, you're taking them from 100 to 0 and there's no gain after except an annoying bounty to pay off and notoriety to deal with. What's your incentive besides "I'm bored"? Is that what the game's reduced to? You're so bored that your pleasure has to derive from killing a random player without incentive? You just do it because making someone else miserable is fun? You don't do it to gain credits or more materials to improve your ship, or influence your faction to actually DO something? You kill just to kill becauuuuse?..... It doesn't mean anything. This is what I mean by value and meaning. When you play a competitive game and see a target that has a high amount of points worth when killed, your instinct is to target that object because it's worth something to the objective. When you pvp in faction/territory games, you do it because there's a long term goal of achieving more land to use to be stronger or to "win" or to gain some form of fun thing to do. There's an objective and a reward or consequence to pursuing it. If I kill a player, I don't get rewarded. I get a bounty and have to find an NPC to pay it off. My reward could arguably be the subjective "it's fun to fight another player and test my skill in combat!" but you can just organize and arrange pvp to do this and not deal with the bounty if that's the case rather than targetting players who are under engineered just to kill them for the sake of killing them. This isn't minecraft, your subjective values aren't freeform in a game that has linear engineering grinding and organized locations to do things at.
"That would just be annoying". Again, I'm spitballing ideas, I'm open to hearing yours? It's no more annoying than someone randomly killing me for no reason in open play lol.
"We already had this with power exclusive modules and it was annoying."
Think a lil more broadly because I did not say a return to this change. I'm saying what about ships you get to pilot specifically for unique missions for your power? Temporary exclusive instances you can participate in or set ships that are specifically designed for finding other power targets? Not a ship you can just free roam the galaxy in and makes exlusive for being in powers, a FUNCTION similar to how you can queue up for conflict zones on foot.
"For example, showing "miners with X cargo" would be a new piracy feature. And engaging with Power Play would unlock this feature. The problem is that some days I'm in the mood for piracy and other days I'm in the mood for mining. It'd be really annoying if I had to do a bunch of busywork every time I wanted to use these features."
Or you go to systems that allow you to do this? Or if you don't wanna deal with it, we have solo mode? Are you narrowly reading what I'm posting here? LOL. Why not have a feature so that in systems owned by X power, cargo on NPC's and players is visible without needing to be scanned? More owned systems means more territory control over where ou can do this at etc. That's the whole point of powers is to have influence over activities and provide you benefits to doing them while also having consequences to players who DON'T own these systems and a reason to ACQUIRE THEM. You could still mine whenever you wanted to and you'd actually have to consider what powers own what systems lest you get targetted by a pirate. Or again, go solo and just forget everything too I guess. This is where value comes into play again because since players can dodge other players, they don't have to worry about piracy or losing loot, they can just avoid all of their consequences and the items they carry can be safely delivered without issue and this can be repeated again and again and in the end... it means nothing. You don't have valuable items anymore, you're doing a task and fulfilling it without a problem, there is no risk, there is no value to be lost because you have promised you will always get this done without a hiccup period. Value from the game comes from the natural direction encouraging you to fulfill a goal and providing a barrier that separates if you can complete it or not. I need to kill X target to get X item, the value is in the item, which extends to the target you need to kill, the target fights back, so the value becomes surviving so you can kill the target and get the item you want. The "value" is in having a reason to lose to begin with. If you're handed your win and automatic victory anyways, what did it ever matter to begin with?
Honestly, everyone is actively fighting to keep this game so boring I don't get it. You can drift in space in so many games already, you can do PVE combat in so many games too in spaceships, you can find better FPS's and all of the things elite offers but the one thing it does offer is an open world where you can "blaze your trail" implying making meaningful decisiosn that reflect your own character's narrative and yet the game DOESN'T EVEN DO THIS but you're just buying it does and accepting so little in return for what??? A brand??? Do you really enjoy nothing happening in the game and having nothing to do with anyone, just cruising around a scripted galaxy where your decisions "pretend" to matter????
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Hmm, power benefits minimal? I'm pledged to LYR to get packhound missiles (just got them; they're fun) and prismatic shields (soon). Along with those there are eventually the credit buffs of zero rebuy and double exploration. I'm planning ultimately to return from DW3 and double a massive exploration payout. I don't think any of this is minimal or worthless, even though I don't care in the least how many systems LYR controls.
I don't really recognise the description of boring or drifting in space either; I enjoy playing like this. I know I'm not taking PP as seriously as others want to, but once I've got the rewards I'll be out of their hair and no longer cluttering up Power space.
If you do think the game is boring and there are better examples of the genre out there, isn't the solution obvious?
Alright, now we're getting somewhere. Fast forward a bit, you now have all the modules your power offers you and the benefits of rebuys under other territories or your own(this also means it will not be viable outside the bubble or any territories under no powers btw).
As you said, once you're done, you'll be out and done with it.... no need to care anymore, the gameplay loop ends once you've gotten what you wanted and there is no benefit or gain to acquiring more systems for your power.
Rather than being obtuse, I ask you to think about this concept. Why should I do anything in power play if by the time I'm done getting what I personally want out of it means I no longer have to care about what powers own which systems? What's the point of a design around scqiuring systems if there's no point to it by the end to continue acquiring them? You have to admit, it's pretty shallow once you think beyond your own personal game's gain. Gaining a system doesn't "do" anything for anyone else that can't already be done and gaining modules etc saving credits is a self made goal you unlock through your own personal rank. It relates to no one else and provides nothing important to anyone else.
Do you really not see the point here?...
Well, it's a sandbox game. I do the activities I enjoy and not the ones I don't... like everyone else does. Once I find that there's nothing left that I enjoy, I'll play a different game for a while. I don't see any need to overthink this.
This isn't technically true. You can't get power bonuses anywhere else and powers have specific modules. But I get what you're saying in principle.
I think this is by design and not necessarily a bad thing. It would be far worse if certain activities were gated by Power Play for those people who just don't want to interact with it. So Power Play offers some unique benefits that are minor upgrades for the people that enjoy the progression.
+100% exploration data bonus as well as the bounty hunting one. Some of the power play modules are very strong and very fun to use.
It's really not that simple. I made 10 billion in order to afford my Fleet Carrier (via exobio) and it took some effort. I also did massacre stacking and that, too, took some effort. If it took even more effort than it did then it'd be very frustrating IMO.
And by "effort" I really mean "time". Elite isn't a hard game to play. Most of my sessions are while listening to audiobooks. One could argue that the game should be more difficult but that's a separate issue from OOPP which is what this thread is about.
What you're talking about are dead ends.
But you're presenting a problem that doesn't have a solution. No game has solved this.
It's like having an issue with the speed of light and saying "You've reached the speed of light; now what? You can't go any faster and now you're stuck. We should find a way to surpass the speed of light so you can go faster".
This is exactly what happened:
- I murdered a bunch of CMDRs and security ships. Bounty was ~500 million. My credit balance was 900 million.
- I needed to wait out the notoriety so I went out exploring in my Asp. Plan was to do exobio to pay off the bounty and make another extra billion as a buffer.
- While doing this I realized it'd be much more fun in a SCO native ship that's small size.
- I built a Cobra MK V on EDSY and decided to head back to the bubble and engineer it.
- Engineering required some SRV farming, USS farming, material trading - the usual.
- Now I'm back out exploring and really enjoying the ship.
Yes when I'm done exploring in the Cobra that will complete the story. Then I'll find something else to do.
Sure it does.
I was working on unlocking on-foot engineering. All of my suits and weapons are grade 5 (finally...) and I'm working on adding modifications for everything. One of the engineers requires having an "Unfriendly" standing with Sirius Corporation. I was allied with that faction.
So I went to Procyon and started murdering NPCs. I saw players and figured I'd include them in my spree. If they came back for vengeance (they often do) I would stand my ground and fight to the death. All of this was fun and dealing with the consequences of those actions was fun too.
Have you actually played games likes this? Like seriously devoted time to them?
Eve Online is a good example. The dynamics are completely different with a lot less freedom in how you play the game. It's not something you can engage in casually because the competition is fierce, the meta is unavoidable, and over time a few blobs of players end up consuming everything.
What's funny is the same arguments are made there: "What's the point? You fight over resources to get more resources so you can fight over more resources".
It's annoying because it would be an unavoidable wall. You can avoid being killed by players in open.
I mean I wouldn't be that excited about that feature. But I could see how people would like it. I don't see how it provides any more meaning than other activities though. To me it just sounds like a more constrained way to do what we already do.
One of the things I like about Elite is I can make some basic goals (like engineering all of my suits) and approach those goals however I want and at the pace I want. Been playing since launch and hasn't bored me yet.
I've done competitive PvP in other games. Took it very seriously. Personally I find that Elite is no more shallow than those games in terms of meaning. The only difference is that in Elite you create the meaning for yourself. In those games the meaning is defined by the game for you.
There's a dude that's been circumnavigating the galaxy in a Sidewinder for the past 5 years and still going strong. Someone else is currently working on their colonization daisy chain. Someone else is expanding their minor faction. Someone else is griefing/ganking players in Deciat. Someone else is organizing PvP tournaments and posting their fights on YT. And so on and so on.
I don't really have any ideas for you because I found meaning for myself in this game. Wouldn't be playing it otherwise.
And that's okay. These things don't need to last forever.
Let's say 6 months passes and that player decides they want to do some exploration. They could pledge to Li Yon Rui and rank up so they can sell the data for double the price. Or if they don't want to take the risk they can just sell it for less on their carrier. IIRC Pranav actually gives +30% to exobio sales now too.
You know full well that powers provide benefits to the player. But your position is that these benefits are meaningless because credits (for example) are so easy to come by. What's the point of pledging to a power to earn 125M per exobio discovery instead of 100M per exobio discovery? Does the 25M actually make a difference?
I actually think you make a good point but that has nothing to do with Power Play or Open mode. That has more to do with game balance and the economy. Elite doesn't have enough money sinks. The wealth gap between dedicated players and casual players is enormous. I consider myself a pretty dedicated player but I'll frequently take 1-2 years off from the game. I'm still sitting at only 1.2 billion credits (I do have an FC though) whereas some players 100+ billion credits.
I was hoping that colonization would 1) be much more expensive and 2) provide much more benefit when fully built.
I mean ... of course you don't get it ... you are you ... you are not other players.
I want a vastly different expereince from ED than other players. I have been playing since launch, like most here. I play only Solo and occasional PG's. I play for the black ... the solitude and just meandering between stations in VR. After 10 yrs I am not a billionaire, don't have engineered ships and don't play PP or own Carriers or any of that stuff ... Yet ... I find the ED experience to still be utterly satisfying and enjoyable .... I forge my own path.
It's a great point you bring up it's a sandbox because despite that we have engineers making it linear af. By the end of the upgrades and when yuou've gotten everything you want, there's no loop to continue. The reason there's a lack of players and not more staying I would like to believe is because like the conclusion you've come to here, they stop playing and play somehting else since there's nothing keeping them here to play with?
Do tell what there is that requires a group or that has meaning when you play solo after you've completed everything you desire?
I just want the multiplayer to give me multiplayer LOL. It's not that different from what we have now or had at one point. I see plenty of videos showcasing pirating and bounty hunting but that's not here anymore? I want to do things and actually have an impact on the galaxy like the game promotes? Ngl like everyone who has been here at launch, everyone sounded jaded with how the devs have answered requests and have settled for how things are for quite some time here. It's Elite: Dangerous but everyone is talking like this is just a sim to drift in space to lol.
I'm trimming this because we're falling back into the problem earlier of multiquotes.
Yes, I have played games like this and there's usually a reason for their designs to flow how they do. And no, all of the powers give you all of the modules just in different times of rank is all. There is very little if no difference in the power you select other than a bonus that can apply so long as you're in their system and an insurance rebuy that only mattered if you were actively doing PP2.0 which there is no reason to. I don't think we're going to see eye to eye on this one despite the thread title here because this just doesn't sound like something you're interested in to begin with.
Difficulty is definitely apart of the problem because there's a lack of it for sure if you don't ever need anyone else.
- I needed to wait out the notoriety so I went out exploring in my Asp. Plan was to do exobio to pay off the bounty and make another extra billion as a buffer.
You enjoy waiting and doing nothing? I'm sorry but you shot some commanders, gained nothing but the thrill of being a griefer for all of a couple minutes, and you enjoy waiting a few hours out for that to fall off AND having to pay it off????? You LIKE doing nothing, in a game? What.
Part of the issue is what another game I've played is going through. There are no issues, there is no constraint, you're given all the conveniences and this creates no "difficulty" to crossover. Time? Sure. Conflict? None.
Yes, a LOT of them actually. I can give you examples how they all make sense and compare it to elite's too.
Minecraft? Look for materials so you can craft something to get materials to craft. The whole game builds around being a sandbox and your imagination to create whatever you want, multiplayer being an added aspect you CAN do but isn't naturally supported as an open game and I think that's fine given what minecraft at its core is about.
Dark Souls 3? Linear story and bosses to fight, get stats and gear to make the journey easier and do-able. Even the PVP makes sense because you can invade someone to get your health increased to max and gain an item to do this as well + a unique item if you equip a banner designed around pvp'ing that let's you unlock new toys to play with. The cycle rinses and repeats and relishes in itself.
FF14, level, get gear to do dungeon to level to get gear to do dungeon to level, etc doing the story and side content along the way to unlock better equipment, new classes, and be able to take on new content.
All of these do hit "a wall" as you've described but the cycle still repeats itself by having a sinks to keep them going and even better when they're an "MMO". In Minecraft when you have everything, you build something new. In Dark souls 3 when you've defeated all the bosses, you still have pvp as arenas or invasions and new game plus to do it all again but with more difficulty. FF14 regularly receives content updates even after you reach end game and the final gear you get takes longer to get because it's the best in the game available.
In Elite? To an extent, you do decide your path but there's an illusion of that present. When I needed gear in the games listed above, it was because an obstacle prevented me from continuing further into the next form of content. When I do this in Elite, it's not hard to get a new ship or engineer after you commit to the boring grind that it is given it's again a linear path in a sandbox game. The only grind so far that requires engineering so far that I can tell is the Thargoid war and then from there's it's choice on how convenient you want to make life. There's otherwise no difficulties to cross over and I was hoping with PP there would be some. I was hoping I could claim systems in the name of whoever I pledge and write my own stories in bounties and exploration. However when I take a system and I see I don't see any visible differences in what happens, the lack of players to actually hunt bounties for or even look for coupled with the credit limit on bounties as well as the lack of reason to pirate... Then on top of all of this, I'll have a ship that can do everything just fine, I have to ask what did I come here for when so many designs have died over the years and players don't seem to care. I do, I want to see a living galaxy as I watched in videos and people describe the game as. I don't see that here though, I see people content in themselves and what they personally are up to, that don't care about the shared galaxy having meaning other than what the devs dangle in front of their face as a carrot only to turn out to be a stuffed toy. It's sad.
I know full well the powers provide benefits. But you full well know they don't mean a single thing whether they own 1 billion systems or not when those benefits don't go anywhere. I was hoping taking a system would bring other supporters of the same faction together and provide a purpose for specific players of that faction to be in these specific systems. There's not. I also agree, there's not enough sinks, colonization isn't as expensive as it should be(not tedious or time consuming, EXPENSIVE Fdev.) and there is indeed a large gap not just in wealth but in power due to engineering being a linear grind that goes against the "do what you want" sandbox vibe.
Believe it or not... for those of you speaking on behalf of "everyone here since launch". There are more players outside this forum who want some dedicated systems that would indulge in pvp, in PP2.0, in better pve, in a lot of other things that you guys may disagree with here. It's very easy to argue keeping the game as it is when the community cultivated here is so complacent in no changes. If you check outside, reddit, discord, other forums, youtube... people aren't thrilled. And no telling them "play another game" isn't the answer because they came to this one for a reason and still play it for a bit under the hope and acknowledgement that change could happen for the better of the game's health. Think beyond this forum, think beyond yourselves(yes including me). Instead of stomping ideas, how about you guys provide some that would make PP2.0 more interesting and give a reason to claim more systems like the title suggests.
I'm out after this. I've tried convincing people to think more critically in the long term but I see a lot of the posters here pick and choose what they want of the game and my posts. Do your own thing, when you wonder what's happening with the game and see yet again no changes in another 5 years as a result, remember that you wanted this. That you and everyone is "fine" with how things are and the lack of change is because you said "it's okay".
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It's been 8 years and I only have 12 fully engineered ships. It was 11 ships before I built the Cobra I was telling you about.
I've never even step foot in a Beluga Liner or Imperial Cutter. I don't even have enough rep for a Cutter yet. I've never even fought a Thargoid yet much less engineer a ship specifically for AX combat. I plan to do all of these eventually. There's so much more to do.
IMO the trick is not to grind but do what's fun. If you can't find anything fun to do I'm not sure what to tell you.
My point was that there are trade offs. If they have a territory control system with strong incentives to actually participate then metas, exploits, and zerging are a common side effect. It also limits your freedom/pacing because you have to keep up with everyone else.
What do you mean? I went out exploring. I went from blasting spaceships to exploring the galaxy. I was a criminal that had to lie low after committing crimes. That's meaning/purpose. I enjoy exploration so I didn't do it begrudgingly.
Exploring isn't nothing. I enjoy it and so do a lot of other people. I also engineered a ship (the Cobra MK V) for that purpose and I really enjoyed flying it.
And how does Minecraft creating "meaning" for you? Even if you play survival there's no incentive to do anything. You set your own goals and play the game. Granted it's been many years since I tried that game; maybe they added some form of progression since then.
... do they though? Most people complete those games and never play them again.
Again the same argument can be made: "Kill monsters to get gear so you can kill more monsters to get more gear. What's the point?"
I engineered all my ships for a reason. All of my engineered builds measurably improve efficiency and some make certain gameplay possible. I'm not even talking about AX combat (haven't done it yet) or PvP dueling (done plenty of that).
I have some bad news for you. Elite just isn't that game and it never will be.
You probably weren't around for this but Power Play on initial release (like the first few months) was very different than it is now. The community went deep into territory control. Whole communities sprung up based on power allegiances. They were posting daily updates/statuses, organizing into groups, assigning leaders, etc. Some people actually bought ads (actual ads lol) on Reddit to advertise their power.
So what happened?
- Cargo haulers and data runners went to Solo mode or Private Groups overnight. 99% of players aren't going to survive an interdiction while hauling cargo in a T9. Escorting doesn't help.
- Some groups would 5th column opposing powers. Basically this means they would join the opposing power and sabotage them.
- People prioritized systems that were uncontested because it was technically more efficient that way. Fighting is a waste of resources and time.
These things you want are a lot more complicated than they sound.
EDIT: BTW I highly recommend you try Eve. It's a great game and offers exactly what you're describing. I genuinely can't think of another game that does. It's very rare and a total gem.
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The question is, why would you, when there are tons of better games out there for PvP which don't require a ton of effort to organize.
There really isn't anything :/ In cockpit space combat, decently high skill ceiling, open world with smooth transitions between space and atmospheric fighting. Hard to explain but genuinely nothing exists that comes close. When it works it's really good. There have been periods (usually between patches) where SC was really stable and everything worked quite smoothly.