Open-Only in PP2.0?

[Rubbernuke]

Just because a few people did it, doesn't make it a "significant" part of it.
Direct PvP is optional - always has been, right from day 1 I've done PP and never done direct PvP - same goes for anyone else in Solo or PGs.

So no, direct PvP only has a small, unimportant role that can be completely ignored - by design.

Yes...a 'few' If that was the case, why was it removed so quickly (in PP terms)?

I can remember whole groups first pirating, and then seeing larger powers have very strange things going on. IIRC House of Cards used it, Utopia extensively used it (I was involved in a Utopia / Kumo Crew self turmoil effort between ten players and other pirates in an early cycle).

So...er, no. It was significant. While NPCs had small amounts to pirate, you had the lure of full player transports.

Yeah, you can forget it. The game I bought, right from day 1 of the Kickstarter

Well, FD have been making interesting choices of late.......that KS is ten years ago....

Tell you what then, turn off all PvP. No players can damage / harm / obstruct or inconvenience other players in any way, shape or form and make PvP a toggle you can switch while docked - then you can lock PP to Open and I'll do PP in Open.

Or, why not make PvP a part of PP that suits the game? And, at the same time, make Solo and PG content for PP that suits the game? And, crazy concept time, not have them overlap?

 

[Rubbernuke]

So what?
Soccer is a team game, they paid a player to play on their side. Next time the other side paid more and he played on the other side. Isn't soccer a team game?

Eh?

To go slightly back to an earlier post of yours- PP requires strategy. And quite often (in V1 and from what was shown, V2 as well) requires teamwork to win.

Some pledges certainly are / will be mercenary in outlook (such as module shoppers in V1) but for many they join because of the people involved or the power itself.

 

[SergMx]

In short everything is clear, I want the developers in the open game (well, just to track open-pg-solo) give out NPCs as enemies, elites, on engineering cooabs, flying in the link, as they are computers then do not miss and masterfully wielding pips, etc.
Do it please !
And then the so-called PvP players will be the first to whine that it is so difficult !

Yeah, by the way. Why do NPCs in open game and single player fly the same ships with weak skill levels. Why didn't the NPCs say that it's dangerous to fly in open?

 

[Rubbernuke]

In short everything is clear, I want the developers in the open game (well, just to track open-pg-solo) give out NPCs as enemies, elites, on engineering cooabs, flying in the link, as they are computers then do not miss and masterfully wielding pips, etc.
Do it please !
And then the so-called PvP players will be the first to whine that it is so difficult !

Yeah, by the way. Why do NPCs in open game and single player fly the same ships with weak skill levels. Why didn't the NPCs say that it's dangerous to fly in open?

Not all NPCs fly weak ships though- its this I would like applied to PP so it matches the wider game and scales to player effort.

 

[SergMx]

Not all NPCs fly weak ships though- its this I would like applied to PP so it matches the wider game and scales to player effort.

Why PP? This is exactly what you need to do depending on the game mode open/single player.
When a person flies into an open game and is quickly killed, then everyone says - it's your own fault, where did you go?
Why should this option should come only from people? Let them make the NPCs in the open game very difficult and everyone will be happy.
I wish I could make such a suggestion.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Why PP? This is exactly what you need to do depending on the game mode open/single player.
When a person flies into an open game and is quickly killed, then everyone says - it's your own fault, where did you go?
Why should this option should come only from people? Let them make the NPCs in the open game very difficult and everyone will be happy.
I wish I could make such a suggestion.

Because Powerplay is a contest between powers it needs the rivals to actually rival you as you fly about, otherwise, why have HOSTILE in your HUD (or have rival powers at all?). Its why I say "players as NPCs, or NPCs as players"- someone or something has to temper your effort, otherwise powers can do anything at near 100% efficiency each week.

If you are helping your power, other enemy pledges / NPCs should target you, no?

V2 operates on the premise strategic systems will be popular, however you can also expand where you like, so if one is too hot for you, there are other places to go. That, or team up.

 

[SergMx]

Because Powerplay is a contest between powers it needs the rivals to actually rival you as you fly about, otherwise, why have HOSTILE in your HUD (or have rival powers at all?). Its why I say "players as NPCs, or NPCs as players"- someone or something has to temper your effort, otherwise powers can do anything at near 100% efficiency each week.

If you are helping your power, other enemy pledges / NPCs should target you, no?

V2 operates on the premise strategic systems will be popular, however you can also expand where you like, so if one is too hot for you, there are other places to go. That, or team up.

I'm not quite following you.
I'm suggesting that NPCs should be difficult in open game and easy in single player.
( strange but I thought it would even make me play in the open game since I always take missions to kill pirate lords for the wing )
It would be player choice = want hard, go open.

As I understand you are proposing a shrinkage of NPCs depending on the open. Maybe this is not quite right ?
Weak player wants to play in the force but can not ?

 

[Rubbernuke]

I'm suggesting that NPCs should be difficult in open game and easy in single player.

In a PP context thats crazy if the outcome (i.e. merits or INF) have the same value.

As I understand you are proposing a shrinkage of NPCs depending on the open. Maybe this is not quite right ?
Weak player wants to play in the force but can not ?

No. What I'm suggesting is that regardless of mode, you have NPCs that scale in skill, ship, loadout and number based on what you are doing and your effort for that cycle.

So someone starting out who can't do a lot is not targeted as much, because they (from a rival powers perspective) is not causing a big impact. However, for the aces of a power (in V2 there is a leaderboard) rival powers will send out elite NPCs to hassle you.

 

[SergMx]

In a PP context thats crazy if the outcome (i.e. merits or INF) have the same value.

I don't quite get it. So the force with the most human players should defeat all other forces ?
Creating an empire and peace in the galaxy?

 

[Rubbernuke]

I don't quite get it. So the force with the most human players should defeat all other forces ?
Creating an empire and peace in the galaxy?

If solo is deliberately easier than other modes it can't reward as much.

Lets take an exaggerated example: if I'm in open with spec ops level NPCs, and you in solo with non-engineered enemies, why should solo have the same level of reward given the disparity (for the same mission / job)?

 

[Darrack]

Soccer is a team game

Soccer??? Hang your head in shame its called Football

O7

 

[Darrack]

If solo is deliberately easier than other modes it can't reward as much.

Lets take an exaggerated example: if I'm in open with spec ops level NPCs, and you in solo with non-engineered enemies, why should solo have the same level of reward given the disparity (for the same mission / job)?

Then why bother with Open? Its your choice to play in that mode, you cant penalise folks for wanting to do stuff together without PvP.

O7

 

[Rubbernuke]

Then why bother with Open? Its your choice to play in that mode, you cant penalise folks for wanting to do stuff together without PvP.

O7

Which....does not answer the question.

Unless a mode offers something the choice is meaningless.

 

[Darrack]

Which....does not answer the question.

Unless a mode offers something the choice is meaningless.

That's my point why do modes need to be different?
You can have your pew pew in Open, many of us just want to carry on with our fortification hauling in PVE, neither should be deemed different.

O7

 

[Felix DiCestria]

Ok wow...
RN I'm impressed by your patience.

Thargoids were put into the game during Horizons with engineered Cmdrs ships in mind.

PP is pre-Horizons and as I understand it hasn't been touched since it was added. The PP NPCs are completely unengineered flying 2015 circa ships Vs 2024 Cmdrs. That's what RN means when he talks about them lacking vs. Cmdrs.
They haven't kept pace with the rest of the game and are in serious need of an update.
Something to make you sweat rather than being roadkill.

 

[Rubbernuke]

That's my point why do modes need to be different?
You can have your pew pew in Open, many of us just want to carry on with our fortification hauling in PVE, neither should be deemed different.

O7

Because players will always be better than NPCs, and, for a feature that relies on efficient strategy at a high level as well as low (as in, you flying about) you should be rewarded for risking more.

Your 'hauling' in PvE illustrates this point- you face nothing doing your job- NPCs can barely touch you, are easy to escape from, never chance it when you drop into a stations NFZ, have no engineering, have no persistence or consistency, and are very infrequent. Fortification is a strategic job, something needs to be pushing back.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Because players will always be better than NPCs,

This seems to be rather an unsafe assumption - given the skill distribution of players.

 

[SergMx]

Lets take an exaggerated example: if I'm in open with spec ops level NPCs, and you in solo with non-engineered enemies, why should solo have the same level of reward given the disparity (for the same mission / job)?

I don't get it.
I took the mission - 100 tons of cargo and transport to the station in solo.
I took a mission - 100 tons of cargo and transport to the station in open game.
The job is the same now in the game. Do I get a different reward?

 

[Rubbernuke]

I don't get it.
I took the mission - 100 tons of cargo and transport to the station in solo.
I took a mission - 100 tons of cargo and transport to the station in open game.
The job is the same now in the game. Do I get a different reward?

You are forgetting the bit where you fly from A to B. While you faced a 2015 Eagle fitted with pulse lasers, I'm having to contend with a tanky G5 phased laser toting enemy.

I have to expend much more time thinking about survivabilty, speed as well as fly better.

So again, why should having an easier time be rewarded the same?

 

[Rubbernuke]

This seems to be rather an unsafe assumption - given the skill distribution of players.

A player is not restricted in how or where they fly, and can ignore rules NPCs are hardwired to obey. Players can also formulate and execute complex plans NPCs could never match.