Open-Only in PP2.0?

[Rubbernuke]

But there is still no risk at all for that attacker, yes my cutter is heavily engineered and will probably get away, but i have zero chance of destroying that murder boat (or wing), where's the balance?
The attacker has nothing to lose but time, i have a full load of cargo which at the moment costs me credits.

O7

If you get away, then what has the attacker gained? If you escape and get to your destination you have won, and get double (or whatever) and the attacker loses time and effort. And you can have people defending you too- a Utopian example I remember- a long time ago when Kenna was being fought over there was wings of people looking after cargo transports.

We also don't know how much (if at all) PP cargo costs or what the rewards for attack are.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Here, here's the problem - they make significant contributions merely to get a module or something and then they go on, forgetting all about PP.

You can't count them as PP interested participants.

That's why Open Only PP Mode is needed, with PP influences and whatnot happening only there.

Thats the fun thing, because I know (or did, since I moved powers years ago) the numbers of those who did the heavy lifting for at least two powers (plus less accurately two more). And in Utopia it was about 20- most of them played in open with a handful in solo. Hell, even I was in solo until one day I clicked the wrong button and NPCs started chatting to me. If you join any power you can roughly guage how many play / 5C by the amounts- considering PP is uncapped merits one person can move mountains very quickly.

But its academic, because what I want out of everything is for Powerplay to be made where regardless of mode you see and feel the other powers come at you- not at a higher abstract level but in the ED bit- flying and evading. Its this part that needs the work- Open Only was the best choice for V1 given its restrictions, and V2 has to deliver here otherwise (as the devs suggest in FU) they'll change things.

 

[Rubbernuke]

I probably won't construct the phrases correctly and they won't translate correctly.
But I remember the first video about PP2, there was a dialog and said that the developers saw how popular the war with Thargoids and the same principle will make PP2.
That's how I understood it.
But I can't understand, because the war with the Thargoids is PvE, cooperative PvE - that's why it's so popular. ALL people only win in private group and in solo and open.

How on this information can we conclude that PP2 will be popular because it will be essentially PvP, even without direct combat. Everyone will be looking to win at the expense of the other side.

I don't understand it

Because the Thargoids are an algorythm that acts as a DM. PP v2 (like v1) is 100% player driven. Its popular because its new and different content. By comparison v1 is nearly nine years old with no changes from 2015.

You could (I've suggested something similar) to have ultra hard NPCs that make PG make sense (in that, its you and a group v the Powers NPCs)-

'Inverted' NPC Driven Powerplay where teamplay means survival

A random thought I wanted to externalise before I forget it. Problem: in Powerplay you have two 'phases' of play- merit earning in PvE zones and merit dropping (hauling, sniping etc). In the latter you do not have effective opposition, or opposition that reacts to your efforts. This idea might...

forums.frontier.co.uk

 

[Darrack]

Thats the fun thing, because I know (or did, since I moved powers years ago) the numbers of those who did the heavy lifting for at least two powers (plus less accurately two more). And in Utopia it was about 20- most of them played in open with a handful in solo. Hell, even I was in solo until one day I clicked the wrong button and NPCs started chatting to me. If you join any power you can roughly guage how many play / 5C by the amounts- considering PP is uncapped merits one person can move mountains very quickly.

But its academic, because what I want out of everything is for Powerplay to be made where regardless of mode you see and feel the other powers come at you- not at a higher abstract level but in the ED bit- flying and evading. Its this part that needs the work- Open Only was the best choice for V1 given its restrictions, and V2 has to deliver here otherwise (as the devs suggest in FU) they'll change things.

Mate its still the same in Utopia, i can run through maybe 10 of the fortifications on that XL planner Solo.
It takes a while for stuff to get fortified (compared to other factions i watch).
This is the point we need to increase the player amount, i was shocked when i first started doing PP how much i could actually achieve on my own, which back then was really fun.
Now days im always in mobius with 2 or 3 mates just casually hauling and having fun.

O7

 

[Rubbernuke]

Mate its still the same in Utopia, i can run through maybe 10 of the fortifications on that XL planner Solo.
It takes a while for stuff to get fortified (compared to other factions i watch).
This is the point we need to increase the player amount, i was shocked when i first started doing PP how much i could actually achieve on my own, which back then was really fun.
Now days im always in mobius with 2 or 3 mates just casually hauling and having fun.

O7

The hope I have for V2 is that at the very least NPCs act better (and there are some promising signs of that) and because of its closer BGS structure you'll finally have 2024 opposition. If the basics are done right, then it makes the need for weighting much less.

 

[Jockey79]

So people did vote then?

Unknown people, who may not even own the game or have any connection to it.

So it is still pointless. until you can prove only those who own the game voted.

Plus, out of all of those in Mobius, who play Powerplay (as in, make a significant contribution)? Because its easy enough to estimate and its not that many (best guesses were <2000).

If FD sent a poll out, that would be cool with me.

Again, make numbers up to suit yourself.
I can just as easily claim "the majority" play PP and it would be as valid as your statement.

End of the day, people who do not want any forced PvP of any sort, once broke the game when they made a single 50k member group.
That's 50,000 unique game accounts clearly stating no to forced PvP. That is a FACT and not one of your made up claims

So until you have over that, in verified register game accounts, you are in the MINORITY.

 

[Jockey79]

If you get away, then what has the attacker gained?

The thrill of seeing another player, because that's what you want isn't it?

 

[Rubbernuke]

Unknown people, who may not even own the game or have any connection to it.

So it is still pointless. until you can prove only those who own the game voted.

I'd be very surprised given who it is. I can see all those SC players voting....

Again, make numbers up to suit yourself.
I can just as easily claim "the majority" play PP and it would be as valid as your statement.

I helped run two Powers, so, yes, I have a good idea. Have you:

Run the only Pranav Antal Reddit for many years (and set up its Discord)?
Been part of the (now defunct) dev facing Powerplay discord group?
Been one of three people who ran the sole Pranav Antal PP group for years?
Been part of Kumo planning and organization?
Had access to planning for FUC (the discords for the Fed powers where they plan and organize)
Had access to LYR, (parts of) Imperial discords

From my position, I could see effort mapped directly to names, as well as modes.

End of the day, people who do not want any forced PvP of any sort, once broke the game when they made a single 50k member group.
That's 50,000 unique game accounts clearly stating no to forced PvP. That is a FACT and not one of your made up claims

So until you have over that, in verified register game accounts, you are in the MINORITY.

One of those Mobius members is me, and I never use it. I wonder how many others are the same and defunct?

So no, I'm not making it up.

The thrill of seeing another player, because that's what you want isn't it?

Its having a capable opposition that is unpredictable.

 

[Jockey79]

Here, here's the problem - they make significant contributions merely to get a module or something and then they go on, forgetting all about PP.

You can't count them as PP interested participants.

That's why Open Only PP Mode is needed, with PP influences and whatnot happening only there.

Regarding some folks only doing PP for the items. You're correct and it is an issue. As it gives a false impression of how many people actually want to play PP.

I'd like to see Frontier pull all the toys out of PP or give us another way to earn them and see what happens to the PP numbers then.

 

[Doctor Dread]

I'd like to see Frontier pull all the toys out of PP or give us another way to earn them and see what happens to the PP numbers then.

I can take an educated guess, probably in the same ballpark as yours

 

[Rubbernuke]

Regarding some folks only doing PP for the items. You're correct and it is an issue. As it gives a false impression of how many people actually want to play PP.

I'd like to see Frontier pull all the toys out of PP or give us another way to earn them and see what happens to the PP numbers then.

If it were V1, the effort would not change because its those core people who keep it going.

We will have to see with V2, since rewards are structured differently and that activity is more BGS leaning.

 

[Jockey79]

I helped run two Powers, so, yes, I have a good idea. Have you:

Again, you keep appealing to some sort of nonsense as if it makes you more important than anyone else.
You do not have any hard figures, you do not know as much as you want to pretend you know.
Running player groups of like-minded players doesn't make you an expert on the entire game.

Until Frontier want to step in and tell us, the only hard figures we have, are those I've shown from the PG menu.
The only action Frontier has taken regarding the mode system is making the chat cross-mode - so Solo players can chat with PG and Open.

Frontier has done nothing to support this idea of making Open more important, and the one person who liked the idea suddenly got taken off the game.

Oh, and the only other bit of information we were given, is David Braben cannot even play his own game in Open Mode, due to the harassment he receives.
So he has to play in Solo or PG's if he wants to play his own game. So I doubt his stance will change anytime soon, adding content where he is valued less than another player in Open.

One of those Mobius members is me, and I never use it. I wonder how many others are the same and defunct?

Very few, as you clearly joined with the whole intention of using that argument. So you'll put a bit of effort into your dishonesty, good on you.
You are no different to other people who joined the Mobius group intending to kill unarmed players.

Perhaps Frontier should add the better PG controls we've been asking for, then we can better track and kick people.

You've also forgotten to mention the number of people who love ganking, that got caught out using PG's to recoup losses safely.
So you'll all use the very systems you complain about.

So no, I'm not making it up.

With no proof, no supporting evidence whatsoever and only rubbish numbers from some streamers that are not even remotely genuine as your standpoint.
Yes, you are making it up, because you want easy kills the same as every other ganker in the game.

Its having a capable opposition that is unpredictable.

Go play CQC then, it's why it was added.

 

[Darrack]

I'd be very surprised given who it is. I can see all those SC players voting....


I helped run two Powers, so, yes, I have a good idea. Have you:

Run the only Pranav Antal Reddit for many years (and set up its Discord)?
Been part of the (now defunct) dev facing Powerplay discord group?
Been one of three people who ran the sole Pranav Antal PP group for years?
Been part of Kumo planning and organization?
Had access to planning for FUC (the discords for the Fed powers where they plan and organize)
Had access to LYR, (parts of) Imperial discords

From my position, I could see effort mapped directly to names, as well as modes.


One of those Mobius members is me, and I never use it. I wonder how many others are the same and defunct?

So no, I'm not making it up.


Its having a capable opposition that is unpredictable.

Your dedication to PP is commendable but since you were a disciple of Antal its not got any better, i can only see a small amount of players involved in PP.
That's what needs to change and going back to the original post, Open wont change that.
Its a moot point anyway, Fdev will have already decided what they want to do in PP2, we just then have to decide if its still for us or not.

O7

 

[Yuri John]

we just then have to decide if its still for us or not.

A bit Off-Topic: Powerplay in the Wolfenstein universe. One winner and all the other factions are losing.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Your dedication to PP is commendable but since you were a disciple of Antal its not got any better, i can only see a small amount of players involved in PP.
That's what needs to change and going back to the original post, Open wont change that.
Its a moot point anyway, Fdev will have already decided what they want to do in PP2, we just then have to decide if its still for us or not.

O7

Like I said, given from what I know I don't think Open is the way for 2.0 either. But V1, certainly- but thats old news now.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Again, you keep appealing to some sort of nonsense as if it makes you more important than anyone else.
You do not have any hard figures, you do not know as much as you want to pretend you know.

It gives me an insight into numbers of casuals, 5C, and 'actual' players. It gave me insight into what annoyed people, who joined, where the problems were as well as what people liked. If you think I'm making it up, you can see much of the public facing stuff on Reddit, but thats up to you if you believe it or not.

Running player groups of like-minded players doesn't make you an expert on the entire game.

Who said the whole game? I'm commenting on the bit I was involved with for many years- Powerplay (and the BGS side as well). I don't claim to be an expert on exploration, AX, etc.

Until Frontier want to step in and tell us, the only hard figures we have, are those I've shown from the PG menu.
The only action Frontier has taken regarding the mode system is making the chat cross-mode - so Solo players can chat with PG and Open.

Frontier has done nothing to support this idea of making Open more important, and the one person who liked the idea suddenly got taken off the game.

Oh, and the only other bit of information we were given, is David Braben cannot even play his own game in Open Mode, due to the harassment he receives.
So he has to play in Solo or PG's if he wants to play his own game. So I doubt his stance will change anytime soon, adding content where he is valued less than another player in Open.

And I can tell you each time FD approached the subject, Open and weighting (to a lesser extent) always feature. They did then, and they are looking at it now.

Plus do you speak for DB? You chastise me for appealing to authority and here you are playing a G5 violin for the guy.

Very few, as you clearly joined with the whole intention of using that argument. So you'll put a bit of effort into your dishonesty, good on you.
You are no different to other people who joined the Mobius group intending to kill unarmed players.

How do you know my intentions? I never really used it because after playing in Open I liked it more. Someone invited me, I joined and largely forgot about it. But yes, deep down I'm going to use it to be evil because reasons.

Perhaps Frontier should add the better PG controls we've been asking for, then we can better track and kick people.

But if I never killed anyone when in the scant times I was in there, why should I be kicked out? Is wrongthink now griefing too?

You've also forgotten to mention the number of people who love ganking, that got caught out using PG's to recoup losses safely.
So you'll all use the very systems you complain about.

Back in PP land, PG is used for AFK farming of CZs. Luckily V2 will cure this actual problem.

With no proof, no supporting evidence whatsoever and only rubbish numbers from some streamers that are not even remotely genuine as your standpoint.
Yes, you are making it up, because you want easy kills the same as every other ganker in the game.

Yes, after all these years building, maintaining and getting involved in multiple Powerplay communities, feeding back to devs and testing, trying to get PP reworked, my dastardly masterplan is bearing fruit to make Powerplay a rampant kill zone for my own sick gratification. So close! I can taste it.

Go play CQC then, it's why it was added.

I love it when people tell me to play something else.

 

[Rubbernuke]

A bit Off-Topic: Powerplay in the Wolfenstein universe. One winner and all the other factions are losing.

Arguably its the top 3 'winning' in V1, because you have bonuses for being in those positions. But it will be interesting to see what, if anything being #1 is like in V2.

 

[heathenlamb]

It gives me an insight into numbers of casuals, 5C, and 'actual' players. It gave me insight into what annoyed people, who joined, where the problems were as well as what people liked. If you think I'm making it up, you can see much of the public facing stuff on Reddit, but thats up to you if you believe it or not.

If we take this thread as a microcosm, the majority of people here are advocating for Solo,PG and Open V2. Very few are advocating for Open only. Is that 100% accurate, of course not ... is it a reasonable indicator? ... I think so. FDev have already stated it's launching V2 in all 3 modes ... if the numbers weren't there across all 3 modes, they simply wouldn't. So we just have to wait and see ... anything else is just cosmic dust.

 

[Mrc_NorthEast]

If we take this thread as a microcosm, the majority of people here are advocating for Solo,PG and Open V2. Very few are advocating for Open only. Is that 100% accurate, of course not ... is it a reasonable indicator? ... I think so. FDev have already stated it's launching V2 in all 3 modes ... if the numbers weren't there across all 3 modes, they simply wouldn't. So we just have to wait and see ... anything else is just cosmic dust.

Fdev did say that. And they also said they would re evaluate after the release. So I for one am hoping they re evaluate with active players input, and not an edict from Lord Braebus or whomever is calling the shots on Elite currently at Fdev.

 

[Lateralus]

If we take this thread as a microcosm, the majority of people here are advocating for Solo,PG and Open V2. Very few are advocating for Open only. Is that 100% accurate, of course not ... is it a reasonable indicator? ... I think so. FDev have already stated it's launching V2 in all 3 modes ... if the numbers weren't there across all 3 modes, they simply wouldn't. So we just have to wait and see ... anything else is just cosmic dust.

For me it's open only preferred... that way Powerplay can be what it was designed for - a consensual pvp system. If everyone is in solo or groups it can't be that because the opposition are not accessible.